Formation of the ELCA

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Edial

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I received this from the retired pastor friend of mine who was excommunicated shortly before I was. I am still hesitant to bring this up, but given the topic at hand, I am hoping for some thoughtful comment on it. I pray forgiveness if I am wrong to share this.
...

"It is with great disappointment and deep sadness that I share with The Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod these brief comments on the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America’s Task Force on Sexuality document “Gift and Trust” and the “Report and Recommendations on Ministry Policies.” The “Report and Recommendations” document recommends that the ELCA undertake a process that would result in the incorporation of “structured flexibility in decision making to allow, in appropriate situations, people in publicly accountable, monogamous, lifelong, same-gendered relationships to be approved for the rosters of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America.” The two documents were released February 19 by an ELCA task force and are expected to be considered by the ELCA Churchwide Assembly in August."
I have read that recently.

It appears to me if ELCA officially accepts and approves the same-sex relationship in "the rosters" of the ELCA - it would be just too much shame for me to be associated with ELCA.

I spoke with one of my co-Councilmembers and we chatted ... we'll see how things develop in the near future ...

Thanks,
Ed
 
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Korah

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Where did you get excommunicated from? Was it the ELCA? I didn't think they did that.
He and his retired paster friend got excommunicated from LCMS. See Post #13 in this thread and that Tofferer's title still says "LCMS".
Korah
 
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Tofferer

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Seems like I need to set the record straight. My family and I just joined the LCMS. We were excommunicated from an LCMC church in Burien. LCMC is an association of Lutheran churches that split from the ELCA. Last I knew, there was still an investigation into the actions of the pastors and council of that church, hence I can not and will not divulge anything here of what and why. I hope this clears things up.
 
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LutheranHawkeye

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But in your post you said they should.



So I'll ask again... what should the LCMS compromise on?



Show me the Scripture passages that command a specific church polity.

The only English Bible versions that I have that use the word "bishop" is the KJV and the NKJV. It doesn't appear in the ESV, NASB, or NIV. Even so, the English word "bishop" is used to translate the word "episkope" which is most often translated "overseer" and Biblically refers to pastors. So what "Biblical sounding" term would you like to see used?

Also, the Call is from God. When a pastor receives a Call, he spends much time in prayerful consideration to ascertain if it is of God. He can reject the call if he truly feels that the Spirit is moving him to do so. Also, it is not up to the pastor to choose where he wants to serve, it's up to God.
I was going to post something about rhetoric being important, and something about synodical structure being updated which would in some ways alter the process of being called, but nevermind.
 
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synger

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I am intrigued as well. As a new Lutheran, I wasn't all that interested in synod structure when we joined the church. We got an overview in the membership class, of course, but not the details.

I listened to an Issues, Etc. podcast (from March 3) talking about possible changes coming out of the President's Blue Ribbon Task Force on Synod Structure and Governance, and now I'm confused. It sounds like some major changes may be on the horizon, but I don't understand them at all.
 
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LutheranHawkeye

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I know that I am curious as to the updating you think Synod needs in structure and the call process.
Well I remember hearing one time on here that the LCMS is technically not a church body, and I still don't understand why. Also I have heard my DP say something about basically being a bishop, and I'm Iowa East.
 
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QuiltAngel

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The position of DP is fairly similar to a bishop. Many people from other churches may not understand the DP concept, but they do know what a bishop is. Many people do not know what a Vicar is or a Vicarage, so sometimes we explain that as Intern and Internship. I suspect that it is this concept that the DP was talking about.

I am not sure what is meant by technically not being a church body.

Since you may be wondering, I am Iowa West.
 
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DaRev

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Well I remember hearing one time on here that the LCMS is technically not a church body, and I still don't understand why. Also I have heard my DP say something about basically being a bishop, and I'm Iowa East.

The position of DP is fairly similar to a bishop. Many people from other churches may not understand the DP concept, but they do know what a bishop is. Many people do not know what a Vicar is or a Vicarage, so sometimes we explain that as Intern and Internship. I suspect that it is this concept that the DP was talking about.

I am not sure what is meant by technically not being a church body.

Since you may be wondering, I am Iowa West.

The LCMS is a "church body" in a technical sense, but it's not "the Church". The Church is the membership and the polity is ministerial, meaning from the bottom up and not from the top down as is the RCC. They believe the Church is the magisterium, the pope and bishops. The LCMS' polity is actually more in line with the Biblical definition of "Church" (ecclesia - the gathering of believers) than is the RCC.

The DP's are "bishops" in the sense that they are "overseers" of a group of congregations. Districts are basically the same as dioceses (the term "synod" is used in the ELCA).
 
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Tofferer

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Rhetoric matters. Why make it sound like a business when it is a church. The corporate titles are very unnecessary.


Because on the local level, a church is consider a business (Indeed, here in Washington, a church has to apply for a business license in order to operate). That is part of why we have groups within the local church such as the Church Council, Finance Committee, etc. Also, people may feel less intimidated when meeting with a District President vice meeting a Synodical Bishop. Yes, they may have the same basic function, but the job title makes a difference.

To give a secular example, look at my job. If I call myself a forklift operator, that seems like very little, thus making me fairly approachable. However, my real job title is By-Pass Technical Lead. That seems somehow higher than a mere forklift operator and may intimidate somebody. Lets be honest, it is easier to approach a President than it is to approach a Bishop. So titles do matter. Thus it makes sense to use more of a business model.


I ask that those who know better than I to correct me where I am in error.

Thank You.:crossrc:
 
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RadMan

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Rhetoric matters. Why make it sound like a business when it is a church. The corporate titles are very unnecessary.
We the congregations can call ourselves a church but the synod thinks otherwise and considers us an organization like themselves. LCMS even wants to get rid of the power granted to the church by God. The bride of Christ.

March 6, 2009

"LCMS Sacerdotalists Use Indiana Law to Disenfranchise Voters' Assemblies"

Sacerdotal LCMS pastors are making a bogus claim that changes in Indiana law
make it dangerous for LCMS congregations to maintain Voter Supremacy. They
conning congregations into surrendering their God given authority. They are
claiming that Professor Richard Nuffer, also an attorney, who teaches at
Concordia Theological Seminary, Fort Wayne IN, endorses their
recommendations to disenfranchise LCMS Voters' Assemblies with their new
constitution. This "new" constitution has the approval of the Indiana
District.

They claim that the solution for "legal protection" from rulings by the
Indiana Supreme Court is to have a Board of Deacons govern the congregation
in place of the Voters' Assembly. The Pastor nominates the Board. The
Pastor also has full authority over congregational membership, including
excommunication.

They also claim that C. F. W. Walther, the founder of the LCMS, wasn't
following a Biblical model by promoting Voter Supremacy and an elected
Church Council. Thus, the LCMS has not been following the Bible for the
past 162 years.

They use Professor Nuffer as their professional advisor. He claims Voters'
Assemblies should not have full authority over the Office of the Keys.
Today, most LCMS laypeople don't even know what the Office of the Keys means
or the difference between the Kingdom on the Left and the Right.

This "new" constitution has the approval of the Indiana District. This is
further evidence that the LCMS is abandoning Walther's "Church and
Ministry." The LCMS falsely claims that it follows Walther's practice while
relieving congregational Voters' Assemblies of their former authority.

The enclosed letter is being circulated in LCMS Indiana congregations to
convince them to give up direct governance over their congregation. This
would also mean that the Voters are surrendering direct governance of their
finances and property to another board.

The following is the letter being circulated in LCMS Indiana Congregations.
----------------------------------------------------

A NEW CONSTITUTIONAL MODEL for LUTHERAN CONGREGATIONS ☧

Background
Several years ago some of our congregational leadership recognized the need
for a revision to our constitution and bylaws. The way that people use time
today has challenged the way that the congregation has conducted her
business. Many people did not get involved in the life of our congregation
because it often took too long to assimilate them. It was difficult for
people moving into our community to use their talents for the good of the
congregation. Increasingly, we have observed changes in our Synodical
understanding of the role of women in church leadership, not all of it good.
This has raised concern on the part of many of our members. Having observed
the difficulties that we had with our congregation's original constitution
and bylaws, we drafted a new document in 1978. Yet, within a very short time
we realized that our attempts at solving the difficulties with the old one
raised new difficulties. Much of what the committee of that time envisioned
simply did not work. We were often faced—and still are—with a shortage of
people to carry out the work of our congregation. We often did not have
enough men to fill the offices which were required. The event which pushed
us to consider a new constitution and bylaws was a decision by the Supreme
Court of the State of Indiana which no longer according churches organized
around Articles of Association the legal protections it once did. In order
to protect the congregation from an individual or individuals seizing the
assets of the congregation, we were encouraged to incorporate. Incorporating
would protect the congregation legally from many things. It would also
relieve the Board of Trustees of the burden of having personal
responsibility in the event of a lawsuit.

It became clear that we needed to protect the congregation legally, and this
gave us a chance to look once again at our current constitution and bylaws.
We began looking for a new model, and one was found in St. John's Lutheran
Church, Maple Grove, Minnesota. Their yeoman-like work provided the
structure that had been only talked about previously. It was decided by our
constitution committee that we pursue this model and adapt it for our use
here at Immanuel. Much of what follows comes from the work of St. John's
Lutheran Church. We are indebted to them for the countless hours they put in
to devise a biblically faithful model which meets the needs of our day. In
many articles there are no substantive changes. There are improvements in
some articles, but virtually nothing has been changed that our original
constitution protects.

This model keeps in mind that God has not ordained any kind of particular
model for how congregations govern themselves. Lutheran congregations the
world over have different forms for governance. We are free to adopt any
model that does not conflict with God's word. Several things are important
in this model.
First, no constitution must interfere with the preaching of God's pure Word
and the proper administration of the Holy Sacraments; Second, the
congregation must be able to utilize the talents and abilities of the entire
holy priesthood as much as it is possible;
Third, the dignity and the authority of the Office of the Ministry must be
carefully protected;
Fourth, the congregation must be protected against any abuse of power both
on the part of the pastor and also by groups or factions within the
congregation; and
Finally, the proper role of men and women must be respected, and this must
be done on the basis of Holy Scripture alone!

It has been a matter of concern by many in our midst that the Voters'
Assembly is seen as "the real church," an idea foreign to the original
intent of the congregation and at odds with true Lutheran teaching and
practice. In most congregations the Voters' Assembly is a rather small and
unrepresentative group of people who make decisions which impact the whole
congregation. In some congregations, Voters' Assemblies have made decisions
which are actually contrary to the Word of God and the Lutheran Confessions.
In some congregations Voters' Assemblies have voted to dismiss pastors for
reasons that have no basis in Holy Scripture. These decisions were often
done because the majority ruled, in spite of what the Holy Scriptures or the
Lutheran Confessions say. Therefore, we must always remember that the
authority in any Christian congregation is not the Pastor or the Church
Council or the Voters' Assembly, but our Lord Jesus Christ alone [Colossians
1.18] who rules his people through his Word alone. The discussion of who has
the power in a congregation has no real place in a Christian congregation.
It should never be a matter of "voting" because that has its roots in the
Kingdom of the Left Hand. Thus, this new model seeks to minimize any abuse
or concentration of power in the hands of one individual or group of
individuals.

The Pastor
The Pastor(s), called by God through the congregation, functions as the
spiritual "overseer" [bishop] in the congregation [1 Timothy 3.1-7]. He is
not a "hireling" nor is he an "employee" of the congregation who must carry
out his ministry at the directives of the Voters' Assembly or the Church
Council. Neither can he be "fired" by the congregation at their whim. His
Divine Call must be carefully guarded for the sake of the Word which he must
preach.

Deacons
In the New Testament, besides the Pastor [bishop], there were men designated
as assistants to the pastors in their work of ministry. These men were
called "Deacons" [Acts 6.1-7]. To the Philippian congregation Paul writes,
Philippians 1:1: "Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all the
saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the overseers and deacons.
. ." The Greek word translated "deacon" means "servant," "helper." It is
very critical to recognize that a "deacon" was not to function as a little
"lord" over others nor was he to be a "CEO" of sorts. The model for deacon
is just as our Lord Jesus says:
"You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and
their great ones exercise authority over them. It shall not be so among you.
But whoever would be great among you must be your servant, and whoever would
be first among you must be your slave, even as the Son of Man came not to be
served but to serve (Greek, "diakonein"), and to give his life as a ransom
for many." [Matthew 20.25-28]

Deacons assisted the Apostles, taking care of certain matters so that the
Apostles could devote themselves to the Ministry of the Word, Acts 6:
And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said,
"It is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve
tables. Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good
repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty.
But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."

The early church followed this Apostolic model as the first epistle of
Clement [a.D. 96] states, "[The apostles] went out to preach the good news.
. . and appointed their first converts, after testing them by the Spirit, to
be the bishops and deacons of future believers." And in the Didache [early
2nd century a.D], "You must elect for yourselves bishops and deacons who are
a credit to the Lord, men who are gentle, generous, faithful, and well
tried. For their ministry to you is identical with that of the prophets and
teachers. You must not, therefore, despise them, for along with the prophets
and teachers they enjoy a place of honor among you."

The qualifications for those who serve as deacons are spelled out by the
Apostle Paul in 1 Timothy 3, where he writes,
Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted
to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. They must hold the mystery of
the faith with a clear conscience. And let them also be tested first; then
let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives
likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in
all things. Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their
children and their own households well. For those who serve well as deacons
gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith
that is in Christ Jesus. [1 Timothy 3.8-13]

Our committee liked the suggestion of the new model that such a Council of
Deacons would replace our Church Council. The office of "Deacon" seemed to
be more in line with Biblical organization than with "chairman." There seems
to be more of a unifying factor in this model.

Role of Women
The Scriptures make it clear that women are not to serve in the Office of
the Ministry or in any office in the Church which carries out or impinges on
the functions of this Office [1 Timothy 2.12-14]:
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a
man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a
transgressor.

We hasten to state that women, by virtue of their Holy Baptism, are most
certainly members of the holy priesthood no less than men and are called to
serve our Lord even as their male counterparts. The New Testament makes it
clear that while women did not serve in the Office of the Ministry or
preside over the churches, they nonetheless served in congregations
alongside the men in capacities beyond participation in the Divine Service.
In Romans 16 women are prominently mentioned as those who worked very hard
on behalf of the Gospel. Yet, nowhere does Paul say that they usurped male
authority. We understand the New Testament witness to indicate that woman
may serve on various working boards and committees within our congregation,
such as the Board of Education, the Board of Finance, the Board of Property
and Grounds, etc., so long as qualified men hold the positions of Pastor and
Deacon. In our proposed constitution a deacon is assigned to chair a certain
board on which women are appointed to serve along with men.

Congregational Members
A fact that has long caused us uneasiness is that in most congregations the
Voters' Assembly is seldom representative of the entire congregation. Paul
never addresses his letters to a select group in the congregation, but
always to the entire congregation. Our Voters' Assembly is made up of less
than 25% of our communicant membership. It follows that if one is permitted
to come to the altar to receive the Holy Sacrament, then one should have the
full privileges of membership in the congregation. Those who contribute via
the offering plate should be permitted to participate in the business
affairs of the congregation without having to jump through additional hoops.
The New Testament nowhere recognizes a special group which legislates such
matters. Our desire is to open up such matters to an even larger portion of
our congregation by involving them as best we can. This new model makes this
much easier.

In our Synodical circles there has been much discussion about what having
"authority" over men means. The word "usurp" is the word that is commonly
used. Women are not to usurp authority over men. In order to eliminate
concerns about this, major spiritual decisions, such as the selection of
deacons and the call of a pastor are determined by "lot" and not by vote.
This was how Matthias was chosen to take Judas' spot among the Apostles
[Acts 1.26]. Furthermore, in this model, the congregation "delegates its
authority to the Council of Deacons to plan and implement the congregation's
mission . . . . and [has] the broad authority to act on behalf of the
congregation in all matters except as restricted by the Constitution,
By-Laws, and/or the Congregational Assembly" [Article IX]. Ordinarily, the
Congregational Assembly functions primarily to receive information from the
Council of Deacons on their activity on behalf of the congregation, to set
policy for the Council of Deacons, to provide a forum for members-at-large
to express their opinions on proposed activities and resolutions of the
Council of Deacons, and to provide the Council of Deacons with the necessary
in put from the congregation's membership with respect to plans and
activities.

................to be continued
 
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RadMan

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..........continued



Advantages of the New Model
1. It is more "ecclesial" than our old constitution and bylaws. The
terminology used follows more closely that of the New Testament and less of
the world. For example, "Council of Deacons" rather than "church council;"
"Congregational Assembly" rather than "Voters' Assembly," etc.
2. By default it does not create a "church within a church" [that is,
the Voters' Assembly]. There is not another separate body within the church
of baptized members. All members, even those who are restricted by state law
from enacting certain resolutions, are encouraged to attend. This includes
all those who have been accepted as communicant members through the Rite of
Confirmation. This should help train our young people in taking
responsibilities for the life of the congregation.
3. Provision is made for more careful selection of congregational
leaders on the basis of God's Word. This is the way God has outlined it in
his Word. As Acts 6.3 states, ". . . Pick out from among you seven men of
good repute, full of the Spirit and wisdom." Leaders are chosen on this
basis and not simply because it's "their turn to serve."
4. This model allows for more involvement of all congregational
members, something we have struggled to achieve under the old model. This
includes both talented women and members who have joined the congregation
recently and are eager to serve but may not be well-known by many in the
congregation. It makes more members aware of the congregation's needs, both
financial and spiritual, with many benefits.
5. This model puts to rest any uneasiness over the issue of women's
suffrage since it no longer is at issue.
6. The Deacons are chosen to the Council of Deacons but not to a
specific board. This helps the Deacons recognize that they represent the
entire congregation and not a certain constituency or committee.
7. This model makes the work of the congregation more efficient. In
recent years many have complained about the inefficiency of how our
congregation conducts her business, that it is repetitive and very slow
moving. The men serving as the Council of Deacons shall have the authority
to represent the congregation in all legal matters [under the Articles of
Incorporation of the State of Indiana]. The Council of Deacons also has the
broad authority to act on behalf of the congregation in all matters that are
not restricted by the Constitution, By-Laws, and/or the Congregational
Assembly. This eliminates unnecessary repetition in meetings because some
members have not had the information necessary to make an informed decision.
Safeguards are built into the By-Laws to ensure that no one is able to
aggregate power and thwart the will of the Congregational Assembly.
8. This model leaves the flexibility that we had hoped we would have in
our present Constitution and By-Laws, but which did not materialize. It does
not address every conceivable situation, but leaves the Council of Deacons
to consider the best course of action. It is built on trust that these men
will have the best interests of the congregation always at heart.
9. The number of persons needed for ratification each year is reduced.
The selection is done on a more biblical basis instead of choosing "warm
bodies."
10. We have been most careful to guard the physical assets of the
congregation in the event of division and/or dissolution so that there be a
God-pleasing outcome. The congregation shall retain sole control of her
physical assets [buildings, property, endowment funds, etc.]. No outside
body [District or Synod] may come in and seize the physical assets should a
division take place on account of doctrine. In the event of dissolution, we
have consulted with an attorney specializing in not-for-profit organizations
as to how the assets of the congregation may be distributed in an orderly
manner which also conforms to the congregation's doctrinal position.

We have researched the various items in this document thoroughly. We have
sought the counsel of Professor Richard Nuffer of Concordia Theological
Seminary, a former practicing attorney and a member of our District's
Constitutional Committee, the body which shall have to approve this
document.

Our forefathers could not have imagined the circumstances of the 21st
century. Life today moves at a much faster clip and so does the demand for
quicker action. The committee firmly believes this model to be a superior
model in every respect. It preserves what is good about the old and adopts
what is a clearer biblical witness to the life of the Church.

Pr. Philip G. Meyer
Immanuel Evangelical Lutheran Church
Terre Haute, IN 47807
St. Luke the Evangelist 2005
 
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