Forgiving Ourselves...

[light_eclipseca]

Can--and, if so, should--a Christian forgive themselves?

 

[dayknee]

absolutely a christian should forgive themselves.
Although I find it hard to forgive myself sometimes. I just have to remember that God does.
I think we are all so much harder on ourselves than we need to be when we sin or w/e. I am guilty of that as well. but I also have to remember that all my sins are forgiven- past, present, and future by the shedding of Jesus Christs blood for me.

 

[Solidlyhere]

Eclipse asks: "Can a Christian forgive himself?"
This question is stupid.
I ask you Eclipse: "Have you EVER met ONE single person who has never forgiven himself for something?"
Every day, every person will forgive himself for something.

There are a 1000 little things which occur each week.


"Should a Christian forgive himself?"
I don't know if "should" is the correct word.

But, OP, why did you ask this?
Do you think that people should NOT forgive themselves?

 

[CShephard53]

Can--and, if so, should--a Christian forgive themselves?

[BIBLE]1 John 1:9[/BIBLE]
Why on earth not if God does?

 

[Ave Maria]

Yes, a Christian should forgive themselves. To not do so can lead to great emotional problems.

 

[light_eclipseca]

Wow solidly...stupid? really? interesting...

 

[Solidlyhere]

Eclipse, one-word sentences.

Gee. Hmm.

Now could you answer my questions?

 

[light_eclipseca]

Eclipse, one-word sentences.

Gee. Hmm.

Now could you answer my questions?

I don't really appreciate your rudeness for my asking a simple question. This is a philosophy forum, and this is a question posed to me in a Systematic Theology course I am enrolled in.

In asking the question we have to ask ourselves how we should take the question. There are obviously two questions involved.

The first question is "Can a believer forgive themself?" How are we to take this question? Do not the terms "forgive themself" imply that we may wipe our own sins away, whether or not they are crimes committed against our own person?

Is the question a figure of speech? Do we forgive ourselves in the sense that we no longer look at the sin any longer as though we never committed it? If so, is this cheap grace? After all, described within a letter from John the Elder he wrties, "He that states he is without sin is a liar"? Is the saying just an idiom for accepting forgiveness from an outside source (namely God)?

Also, assuming that a Christian CAN forgive themself, "should a Christian forgive themself?" This is not a question of whether or not people do...

Furthermore, forgiving yourself is not something that enters into Christian theology, or maybe it does? Perhaps there is too much emphasis upon "self" in the question?

Luther proved that there are two kinds of righteousness
(in his article named, "Two Kinds of Righteousness"), the first being imputed (from Christ to us), the second being proper (from us to others in actions). The second kind is just an overflowing from the first kind. If one forgives themself does this not imply that they are intending to impute righteousness to themself which does not originate from them?

Perhaps the issue is more about accepting forgiveness from God in realizing that we sin, and not forgiving ourselves in the realization that it is not something that a human being can do?

As in my most recent posts, I am not trying to be novel; but am only trying to think critically about this and what the Scriptures tend to say about it (if anything).

 

[WarEagle]

I don't really appreciate your rudeness for my asking a simple question.

I've got to go with him. It is a pretty goofy question.

What is it that we're supposed to "forgive ourselves" for, exactly?

I'm sure you're asking it with all sincerity and I'm not trying to belittle you for it, but the truth is that the idea that we have to forgive ourselves is based much more in the Gospel According to Oprah, which tells us that our problems stem from some sort of something or other that we've denied ourselves.

If you're talking about forgiving ourselves, then there's nothing to forgive. If we're walking after the flesh, then we're serving ourselves and are only doing what the flesh tells us to do.

If we're walking after the Spirit and we sin, then it's not ourselves we need to ask for forgiveness, but God.

You do what Jesus does - "seek, ask, and knock" - and I'll guarantee you on the authority of the word of God that you'll find that the rest will take care of itself and you'll see the foolishness of asking yourself for forgiveness.

Good luck in your search.

 

[dayhiker]

I think forgiving onesself is a very healthy thing to do.

 

[jad123]

For many people forgiving themselves is very difficult. A person will very low self esteem may find it difficult to forgive themselves and to forgive others. They are not good enough, cute enough, smart enough, etc. etc. They have been beaten down by society, by their parents. Abused throughout their lives in one form or another. They see themselves as failures as sinners and are unable to forgive themselves for their own mistakes. This creates a terrible circle,.
how can somebody forgive another when they are haunted by their mistakes and are unable to forgive themselves for their own transgressions. Once we are able to forgive ourselves, we are better able to forgive others. We must come to realize that whatever we have done has been forgiven by God first and foremost as that it is the only way we can forgive ourselves and thus be able to forgive others.

 

[Rhamiel]

you got to forgive yourself, guilt can rip a man in half given enough time, but you also have to learn from your past.
Forgive not forget

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Yeah, we should.. but can we..

 

[light_eclipseca]

I guess I am looking for theological reasons why we should forgive ourselves. I am just looking for different perspectives.

It actually is not a ridiculous question now that I have looked into it a bit deeper. I'm reading Bonhoeffer's Cost of Discipleship again and he is more along the lines of how Christian's must be careful when they "forgive themselves". He calls this mere "cheap grace."

I think that I am understanding that forgiveness does not come from man; therefore, a Christain may not forgive themselves. Rather, they should allow God to forgive them not in presumption; but in fear of judgement.

Bonhoeffer has an higher than usual Christological theology of ethics and quotes Jesus, "Not everyone that says to me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven." Clearly these people thought themselves forgiven. They may even have thought that they forgave themselves. In their minds they forgave themselves. They had no clue of the judgement that awaited them. Therefore, they had judged themselves righteous. Yet, when we judge ourselves righteous we take the place of Jesus who is our Judge.

2 Cor 5:10 indicates that we will all be recompensed for our deeds, whether good or bad. So we will all face judgement whether or not we are saved from the lake of fire. Even for the evil things that we have done.

Perhaps we should not be so presumptious to judge ourselves righteous in our own eyes. It seems that this is a dangerous thing to do. Rather, perhaps we should be dependant upon the grace of God instead of our convincing of ourselves that we are righteous. How do we know that we are righteous?

Afterall, once we know that we have done a good deed, does pride not well within our heart turning the cloth of our deed to a filthy rag? (Is 64:6)

I wrote a song with the following lyrics:

It seems to me that all I want to do is hide
to get me out of sight and out of mind.
'Cause all my deeds are really just my death in disguise.
Please get them out of sight and out of mind.

'Cause all I ever want to do is tainted.
All I ever want to do is over rated.
You're the only One that understands intention.
You're the only One that makes my fault undone
And out of mind, and out of sight,
And out of home, and out of my life.

In saying this, I also understand that if we may not judge ourselves righteous because that will be Jesus' job (2 Cor 5:10), then we may also not judge ourselves unrighteous either. Perhaps there should be a healthy fear of judgement, and hope in grace at the present moment?

Maybe this is shown in the story of the Tax Collector and the Pharisee?

Lu 18:10-14:
"Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank you, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for everyone that exalts himself shall be abased; and he that humbles himself shall be exalted."

In this instance the man who assumes righteousness is filthy; the man who assumes sin is found righteous. Did the man who humbled himself, do it publicly? Of course not! He was ashamed of his sin. He did not want people to see it. He did, however, admit it to God. Why should we assume that the man who exalted himself did it publicly then? We actually are told that he prayed "with himself" actually implying that he prayed reflectively or quietly. These things they pondered in their hearts. One was shunned by God, and one was justified all because one forgave themself in their hearts and one did not, but allowed God to forgive them in fear of judgement. We know that he had fear of judgement because he exclaimed within himself, "have mercy on me, a sinner!" Never does one beg mercy when there is no fear of judgement. Therefore, the humbling or the exalting takes place within our hearts.

But I'm still developing these thoughts...what do you all think? Any way I may tighen this argument up, or should it be refuted?

 

[light_eclipseca]

Is the forgiveness that we "forgive" ourselves with supposedly a different kind of forgiveness than God forgiving us? Does forgiving ourselves imply that we presume upon God's forgiveness?

Understand that I am not teaching this. I only am working through this systematically.

 

[light_eclipseca]

Now I am actually answering the question in another sense of the verb "forgive." Apart from Psychological reasons that a person should forgive them self, why should a Christian forgive them self in the psychological sense? That is, "to live life without criticizing them self constantly for their previous behaviour"?

The tax collector and pharisee story I think I took out of it's original meaning. Also the, when the Lord tells us that not all people will enter the kingdom of heaven, he is speaking in terms of false teachers and how we are to know them; that is, their fruit.

Still thinking...