Forgive me for this - but I am starting to wonder.

[Lady Bug]

Look guys - since this is a semi-political thread - I am not expecting people to respond to it rationally - let alone keep the thread rational throughout its entirety - but something is really bothering me now about Barack Obama.

Please read the entire post before you answer.

Heck - you can't even say I'm a supporter of the man - I really am starting to wonder about something - and a lot of you may be upset that I had the audacity to even ask this.

Some people speculate that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim and all. Let's just say that if he is one - you couldn't pay me enough money to vote for the guy (that doesn't mean I'd vote for him if he isn't - just bear with me).

But now let's say that he is a Christian (discounting that thread about the ABC interview - please). And let's just say that he is telling the truth about the fact that he is a Christian and that whatever he said was some sort of slip for WHATEVER reason (except being that he is really Muslim).

Yet the smears against him keep coming.

Now before you say anything: you have every right to "attack" Obama's legitimacy towards being a President if you suspect him being a secret Muslim and all. That is - you have every right to object him on a professional level if you feel that whatever faith he has (the Muslim one) would be incompatible with his duties in the Oval Office.

But I'm starting to believe that the attacks against him are not just professional - they are becoming personal. And it is leading me to wonder - that let's say you meet someone in your life - or let's make it all very hypothetical and say that Barack Obama is an unknown layman (i.e. not running for office or anything) and you happened to become acquainted with the guy somehow. He starts talking to you about his life and he starts talking about his family. He starts saying how his father (and his father's family) was a Muslim and he (Obama) was exposed to Islamic teachings while growing up but that he himself today is definitely a Christian. Would you start smearing him to his face and say to him that he is lying about being a Christian (or at least be thinking of these things)? I mean, would you say that he is the same as his family?

sorry if I make anyone angry

 

[BAFRIEND]

Is Obama a Muslim.

I say. "Follow the money."

 

[kiwimac]

Why would his being a Muslim be a problem? I am not looking for debate I am really, really confused as to why someone's religion is a difficulty in a politician?

 

[Voegelin]

let's make it all very hypothetical and say that Barack Obama is an unknown layman (i.e. not running for office or anything) and you happened to become acquainted with the guy somehow. He starts talking to you about his life and he starts talking about his family. He starts saying how his father (and his father's family) was a Muslim and he (Obama) was exposed to Islamic teachings while growing up but that he himself today is definitely a Christian. Would you start smearing him to his face and say to him that he is lying about being a Christian (or at least be thinking of these things)? I mean, would you say that he is the same as his family?

sorry if I make anyone angry

If I had a neighbor such this hypothetical individual, I would be very, very concerned if I learned he converted to the religion taught by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, worked with Wright as a "community organizer", had attended Louis Farrakhan's Million Man March and endorsed his church's alliance with the Nation of Islam and Farrakhan by supporting Rev Wright financially.

But I would not smear him. I would feel so uncomfortable and threatened living next to someone who believe what Farrakhan and Wright do about people with my skin color I would put my house on the market and move.

If he were just another Muslim convert to Christianity, he would be just another neighbor. If he had not converted but remained a Muslim he would be just another neighbor. We might become good friends or we might not as neighbors do or don't.

 

[Fantine]

We aren't used to having multi-cultural candidates like Obama--born of an African father and a Kansan mother who remarried an Indonesian who moved him to Asia for two years. A candidate with a half-Indonesian sister married to a Chinese man.

We aren't used to having candidates who were exposed to many religions but raised in none.

We don't know how to categorize him, and so some react in fear.

But our country is becoming much more multi-cultural. And our world is becoming smaller. And I believe that the family ties Obama has with different races and religion will help him to see all sides of an issue and be able to deal with many kinds of people.

I absolutely believe Obama is Christian because I read about his personal conversion experience in his book. You know, there are people baptized as infants who never have a personal conversion experience.....they may go to church for the socialization, or to network with business buddies....

I know it disturbs some that he settled in to a socially liberal inner-city black Church environment, because they emphasize a different set of moral values on controversial issues, but truthfully, given his background, isn't that where he would feel most at home spiritually? And isn't that what all of us do?

 

[MikeK]

If I had a neighbor such this hypothetical individual, I would be very, very concerned if I learned he converted to the religion taught by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, worked with Wright as a "community organizer", had attended Louis Farrakhan's Million Man March and endorsed his church's alliance with the Nation of Islam and Farrakhan by supporting Rev Wright financially.

But I would not smear him. I would feel so uncomfortable and threatened living next to someone who believe what Farrakhan and Wright do about people with my skin color I would put my house on the market and move.

Really? You'd feel threatened by that? Where do you live, Fargo? as a child, I had a neighbor who beat his girlfriends routinely (they were usually strippers) and hated people of my herritage as a matter of course and was known to shoot holes in the floor when he lost his temper. I liked him, he always let me use his welder. I never felt like my life was in danger because of him.

I'm glad you said "put my house on the market" instead of the far less likely "sell my house".

 

[stephenc]

If you were welding armour plating across your ceiling, I think it was only fair...

 

[MikeK]

If you were welding armour plating across your ceiling, I think it was only fair...

Lol - he lived accross the street, not upstairs.

 

[benedictaoo]

Him being a past Muslim or having Muslim ties to the past is not why I scoff at his claims that he's a Christian. I scoff because of what he stands for-- his policies are very anti Christian.

I also scoff at his commitment to the USA because of all his radical anti America associations.

Look guys - since this is a semi-political thread - I am not expecting people to respond to it rationally - let alone keep the thread rational throughout its entirety - but something is really bothering me now about Barack Obama.

Please read the entire post before you answer.

Heck - you can't even say I'm a supporter of the man - I really am starting to wonder about something - and a lot of you may be upset that I had the audacity to even ask this.

Some people speculate that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim and all. Let's just say that if he is one - you couldn't pay me enough money to vote for the guy (that doesn't mean I'd vote for him if he isn't - just bear with me).

But now let's say that he is a Christian (discounting that thread about the ABC interview - please). And let's just say that he is telling the truth about the fact that he is a Christian and that whatever he said was some sort of slip for WHATEVER reason (except being that he is really Muslim).

Yet the smears against him keep coming.

Now before you say anything: you have every right to "attack" Obama's legitimacy towards being a President if you suspect him being a secret Muslim and all. That is - you have every right to object him on a professional level if you feel that whatever faith he has (the Muslim one) would be incompatible with his duties in the Oval Office.

But I'm starting to believe that the attacks against him are not just professional - they are becoming personal. And it is leading me to wonder - that let's say you meet someone in your life - or let's make it all very hypothetical and say that Barack Obama is an unknown layman (i.e. not running for office or anything) and you happened to become acquainted with the guy somehow. He starts talking to you about his life and he starts talking about his family. He starts saying how his father (and his father's family) was a Muslim and he (Obama) was exposed to Islamic teachings while growing up but that he himself today is definitely a Christian. Would you start smearing him to his face and say to him that he is lying about being a Christian (or at least be thinking of these things)? I mean, would you say that he is the same as his family?

sorry if I make anyone angry

 

[Voegelin]

Really? You'd feel threatened by that? . . .

I'm glad you said "put my house on the market" instead of the far less likely "sell my house".

I've lived it. I sold and got out because of hostility. When I was 23 I bought a house in an area other people in their 20's were bringing back. Nice old homes which had gone into disrepair. Mine had been built in 1824 and was on a river. All of us were so idealistic. We were doing the right thing, we were helping the kids in the community, we were going to build something really nice. Didn't have much money but we didn't need much. I tore the tarpaper off, exposed and repaired the old clapboard siding, put wooden shakes on the roof, painted it...worked really hard and enjoyed every minute of it. But we couldn't overcome what the "community organizers" and social services complex had created. While we were working to improve the neighbor, the political machine worked to maintain and expand its grievence/dependency industry. When I saw the first video of Jeremiah Wirght, I thought "yeah..I remember that" (although it wasn't nearly as bad as Wright). Even today I do not like to think of some of the ugly things which went on and which the powerbrokers in the city turned a blind eye to. Today the area is worse than when we started. Didn't lose money on the deal but did lose four years of spare time work. I'ld be further ahead today had I not been so naive, not thought doing the right thing always won.

I'm not unique. The burbs were I live are filled with people who also got away from the political machine, the type of machine Barack Obama is so proud of serving on the South Side of Chicago.

Btw...that neighbor had been mostly Catholic. Beautiful churches. A hundred years ago, Catholic had sacrificed a lot to construct them. And now there they sit...under-utilized in a neighborhood which might someday come back but shows little indications now it will.

 

[benedictaoo]

I've lived it. I sold and got out because of hostility. When I was 23 I bought a house in an area other people in their 20's were bringing back. Nice old homes which had gone into disrepair. Mine had been built in 1824 and was on a river. All of us were so idealistic. We were doing the right thing, we were helping the kids in the community, we were going to build something really nice. Didn't have much money but we didn't need much. I tore the tarpaper off, exposed and repaired the old clapboard siding, put wooden shakes on the roof, painted it...worked really hard and enjoyed every minute of it. But we couldn't overcome what the "community organizers" and social services complex had created. While we were working to improve the neighbor, the political machine worked to maintain and expand its grievence/dependency industry. When I saw the first video of Jeremiah Wirght, I thought "yeah..I remember that" (although it wasn't nearly as bad as Wright). Even today I do not like to think of some of the ugly things which went on and which the powerbrokers in the city turned a blind eye to. Today the area is worse than when we started. Didn't lose money on the deal but did lose four years of spare time work. I'ld be further ahead today had I not been so naive, not thought doing the right thing always won.

I'm not unique. The burbs were I live are filled with people who also got away from the political machine, the type of machine Barack Obama is so proud of serving on the South Side of Chicago.

Btw...that neighbor had been mostly Catholic. Beautiful churches. A hundred years ago, Catholic had sacrificed a lot to construct them. And now there they sit...under-utilized in a neighborhood which might someday come back but shows little indications now it will.

Sounds like New Orleans.

I always find it a bit humorous that ppl who do not have to live or who never lived in urban areas like this think we are horrible racists or what ever. I would love for them to live in a city like Chicago or New Orleans for just 6 months and we'll see if they still have that same happy attitude.

 

[Mom2Alex]

Hello Ladybug

I don't think that he is Muslim, but I do doubt he consults Jesus when he makes and will make major decisions. Most Christians would pray prior to a big vote on major legislation but I do not think he has. Many of his votes were not something God would support. In the ABC interview, he wasn't saying he was Muslim - and when watching the full interview again, it wasn't even a slip. He was speaking about how people had not been speaking about him being a Muslim - that is why he said 'my Muslim faith'. It was just a poor phrase choice, one which I make quite frequently.

What does concern me is how the powers in the Middle East view him - they are a bit overjoyed to see him in office and I don't think they take his 'Christianity' too seriously either.

I do not know what is in Obama's heart - I'll leave that for God because only He truly knows. I will judge his voting record and speeches and have decided he does not speak from the heart of someone steeped in Christian values.

IF he does become president, I think people need to remember that he does NOT have a magic wand which will redistribute the wealth of Americans and fill the freezers of every household. I do not look forward to the possibility of paying for our healthcare insurance through my husband's job and then being taxed a higher rate to cover a 'national healthcare program' which we will NOT participate in. AND I know that if a partial-birth piece of legislation ends up on his desk again, he'll assert that it is every woman's right to suck the brains out of her baby in order that it can be ripped from its safe haven, its first home. I find that gravely offensive and I just can't figure out why more do not.

Peace be with you,

Kelly

 

[MikeK]

AND I know that if a partial-birth piece of legislation ends up on his desk again, he'll assert that it is every woman's right to suck the brains out of her baby in order that it can be ripped from its safe haven, its first home. I find that gravely offensive and I just can't figure out why more do not.

Can you please explain what makes, in your mind, partial -birth-abortion more offensive than other late-term abortions? Why do you oppose this typ eof abortion more than the type where the baby is chopped up inside the womb and then removed?

 

[benedictaoo]

Hello Ladybug

I don't think that he is Muslim, but I do doubt he consults Jesus when he makes and will make major decisions. Most Christians would pray prior to a big vote on major legislation but I do not think he has. Many of his votes were not something God would support. In the ABC interview, he wasn't saying he was Muslim - and when watching the full interview again, it wasn't even a slip. He was speaking about how people had not been speaking about him being a Muslim - that is why he said 'my Muslim faith'. It was just a poor phrase choice, one which I make quite frequently.

What does concern me is how the powers in the Middle East view him - they are a bit overjoyed to see him in office and I don't think they take his 'Christianity' too seriously either.

I do not know what is in Obama's heart - I'll leave that for God because only He truly knows. I will judge his voting record and speeches and have decided he does not speak from the heart of someone steeped in Christian values.

IF he does become president, I think people need to remember that he does NOT have a magic wand which will redistribute the wealth of Americans and fill the freezers of every household. I do not look forward to the possibility of paying for our healthcare insurance through my husband's job and then being taxed a higher rate to cover a 'national healthcare program' which we will NOT participate in. AND I know that if a partial-birth piece of legislation ends up on his desk again, he'll assert that it is every woman's right to suck the brains out of her baby in order that it can be ripped from its safe haven, its first home. I find that gravely offensive and I just can't figure out why more do not.

Peace be with you,

Kelly

Amen... I'm just shocked and dismayed at anyone who thinks that what the democrats have to offer is good for any of us.

I'm just sad that they have a plan to keep ppl down dependent on the government.

I live where I do and I seen it yet again with the last hurricane. What dependency on the government does to the dignity of ppl.

Ppl who are not independent and had to rely on the government were evacuated out of the city in style for all the cameras but the shelters they were kept in were deplorable and some ppl are still there. We don't see the news covering that now, do we?

To see the ppl who think Obama or anyone is going to give them a better life saddens me. They deserve better and they need a plan to get them out from under the dependency the party created over the last 40 years.

Universal depending on the government is no way to live for anyone. Socialist governments do not work, we have seen it time and again in other countries.

I do think McCain has a better health care idea to give a credit so we can buy our own plan as opposed to making everyone pay to expand medicare to everyone. Folks don't get it... ppl who are in poverty already have medicare. It's not an issue for them, It's middle America who does not have it. Has anyone ever used medicare? It' sucks. There are hardly any participating doctors and the government does not want to pay for extensive treatment in many areas.

Again, it's the ppl who do not live anywhere like these urban areas who just doesn't get to see how these programs fail the ppl time and time again. We had a free hospital here that was dirty and disgusting and you would die just waiting for your first doc appointment. And I'm not being dramatic, it's true.

 

[katholikos]

Trying to be as fair as possible considering how much I despise the man:

I seriously doubt he's a Muslim (although he may well sympathize with them since his dad is one). But I also doubt he's a true Christian. His mom was atheist, and his mom's outlook is no doubt deeply instilled in him. No atheist, though, will ever get elected to high public office, so his membership in that Church was pure political expediency. In fact, if he's telling the truth about never hearing Rev. Wright's hate speeches, that merely illustrates that he never took the place seriously since he never paid attention to what was being said right under his nose.

I'm convinced that his "Christianity" is pure white-wash in order to be elected to high office. And while I don't think he's a Muslim, I fear that he sympathizes with them

 

[benedictaoo]

The mother was an atheist? Didn't know that.

Man, this guy has just so much luggage. The democrats really are taking a gamble putting him up there. They couldn't find a better man with less baggage for their "historical election"?

 

[Mom2Alex]

Can you please explain what makes, in your mind, partial -birth-abortion more offensive than other late-term abortions? Why do you oppose this typ eof abortion more than the type where the baby is chopped up inside the womb and then removed?

Mike, it was an example. It is the most common method of late term abortion - they make the head of the infant corpse small enough so it can be 'delivered' more 'comfortably'.

 

[benedictaoo]

Oh yeah, we don't want the 'mother' and I use the term loosely to be uncomfortable as she delivers her dead legally murdered baby.

 

[MikeK]

Mike, it was an example. It is the most common method of late term abortion - they make the head of the infant corpse small enough so it can be 'delivered' more 'comfortably'.

Yes, I'm aware - what's with the big letters? Anyway, you're no doubt aware that late-term abortions have not been banned and that the partial birth abortion bill does not prevent any abortions - do you support it because it makes you feel like something has been done or do you think it's worse than other types of abortion or what? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Mom2Alex]

Hello Katholikos

See my reply in another thread HERE.

He is a seeker who is a devout activisit.

God bless you,

Kelly