Food for thought.

[Davian]

Exactly, everything they believe is based on an assumption. If it's reasonable to assume life magically arose from non-life (something we can't witness right now) then it's just as reasonable to assume an eternal and infinite God miraculously created life (also something we can't witness right now). There's no way around this truth.

But your god is not a god-of-the-gaps, is it? Your assumption includes tossing out most of mainstream science. Your assumption has a "god" that allegedly walked and talked in a garden that has no evidence of having existed, poofed people and animals into existence, and later, in a manner contrary to the modern understanding of genetics, populated the planet with a tiny group of individuals and animals that survived a global flood in an unbuildable boat, a flood that killed the dinosaurs in a manner that only *appears* to be 65 million years ago, because the Earth is really only somehow 6000 years old, yet remains, by every object measure to date indistinguishable from nothing.

No, I do not think it is "just as reasonable" to assume what you do.

 

[quatona]

My point is that it's very difficult for atheists to admit that they don't know if an eternal and infinite God exists or not and the fact that Christians claim to know, for some reason doesn't sit well with them, even though they admit they don't know.

They don´t admit that they don´t know even though they admit that they don´t know?

 

[Davian]

...
My previous statement still holds as true and will hold as true until it's proven that life was magically created from non-life or it's proven that God did not miraculously create life.

The only "life" I am aware of are organisms on this planet that are breathing, consuming, excreting beings subject to entropy. Does your god fall under this description of "life"?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

My point is that it's very difficult for atheists to admit that they don't know if an eternal and infinite God exists or not and the fact that Christians claim to know, for some reason doesn't sit well with them, even though they admit they don't know.

A. Depending on what god you're describing (like the Deist god), I have no issue with saying I don't know if said god exists. Some gods logically can't exist, so for those I have no issue with saying they don't exist.

B. It's not the case that it doesn't "sit well" with me that Christians claim to know a god exists. It's just the case that I don't believe them.

P.S. Are you ok with the idea that you may be doing more harm than good here?

 

[Davian]

Atheism is contradictory because some atheists admit they don't know if God exists or not and some claim they know God does not exist.

How is this not contradictory?

At least all theists admit their reasoning is based on the belief that God exists.

A general disbelief in gods is not incompatible with a singular position on the non-existance of a particular god. No contradiction.

 

[Chriliman]

They don´t admit that they don´t know even though they admit that they don´t know?

No, I'm just saying its difficult for you to admit that you don't know especially when I claim to know. You don't accept my claim as true, but you also don't accept it as false, which leaves you not knowing and back to being frustrated that I claim to know.

 

[Davian]

Immoral: The knowledge of the difference between good and bad, but choosing bad.

Itheism: The knowledge of the possibility of God, but choosing to ignore the possibility.

I couldn't find a word to describe modern "atheism".

Words are defined by how we use them. I lack beliefs in gods. If you would like my opinion on a particular deity, provide a detailed, testable, falsifiable definition and I will get back to you on that.

 

[Freodin]

Being wrong is only relevant to what is true. Do you see anything wrong with that statement?

Oh, yes, I do.

But it seems you don't even try anymore. I can waste my time on better things.

 

[quatona]

the fact that Christians claim to know, for some reason doesn't sit well with them

As far as I am concerned, you are welcome to make unsupported truth claims until the cows come home.
What actually irritates me mildly is that you obviously expect me to pay attention to them, and/or ascribe significance to the fact that some anonymous on the internet claims to have special knowledge.

 

[Freodin]

No, I'm just saying its difficult for you to admit that you don't know especially when I claim to know. You don't accept my claim as true, but you also don't accept it as false, which leaves you not knowing and back to being frustrated that I claim to know.

Your claim is false. I know that.

 

[Chriliman]

A. Depending on what god you're describing (like the Deist god), I have no issue with saying I don't know if said god exists. Some gods logically can't exist, so for those I have no issue with saying they don't exist.

B. It's not the case that it doesn't "sit well" with me that Christians claim to know a god exists. It's just the case that I don't believe them.

It's fine if you don't believe me, but if you're goal is to get me to change my beliefs then you must be making a truth claim.

P.S. Are you ok with the idea that you may be doing more harm than good here?

Just making things clear.

 

[Davian]

Still works.

Atheism: having or showing no concern about whether or not God exists.

That would be more like apatheism. That would describe me up to my forties.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

 

[Davian]

Theist "I know God exists"

Atheist "I don't accept that statement as true"

Theist "If you don't accept it as true do you accept it as false"

Atheist "No"

Theist "Then you must admit you don't know if I'm telling the truth or not"

Atheist "Correct"

There all disputes between theists and atheists resolved with the acceptance that theist claim truth and atheists claim to not know for sure if theists are telling the truth or not.

Burn the Strawmen

• Davian
• Apr 9, 2014

 

[Chriliman]

Your claim is false. I know that.

Okay so you do know that it's false that an eternal infinite God exists?

See this is the problem I'm talking about. Atheism is contradictory and I have a problem with contradicting truths.

 

[Davian]

Not true because there is no position of yours to misrepresent because its true that you have not stated your position.

No, for you to misrepresent it, you need only to be wrong.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

It's fine if you don't believe me, but if you're goal is to get me to change my beliefs then you must be making a truth claim.

My goal is to try and figure out why Christians believe things for bad reasons. Pointing out logical fallacies in Christian's arguments and seeing their reactions is part of that process.

Just making things clear.

You're clearly not convincing anyone of anything. And quite possibly putting someone off Christianity by the content of your posts.

Doesn't sound very productive to me. Fascinating though.

 

[Freodin]

Okay so you do know that it's false that an eternal infinite God exists?

See this is the problem I'm talking about. Atheism is contradictory and I have a problem with contradicting truths.

Where is the problem? Where is the contradiction?

 

[Davian]

Someone couldn't possibly know it's an odd number unless that information was revealed to them somehow. That knowledge could only come from a knowledge source higher than finite human knowledge.

Person 1 "I know there's an odd number of stars in the universe"

Person 2 "I don't accept that statement as true"

Person 1 "Do you accept it as false?"

Person 2 "No"

Person 1 "Then you must admit that you don't know if I'm telling the truth or not"

Person 2 "Correct"

Then the burden would lie with you to substantiate your claim. That is where you keep stumbling.

 

[quatona]

No, I'm just saying its difficult for you to admit that you don't know

Inaccurate. I have always been open about it - several times in this thread.
So have many others. But for to notice that you would have to actually read the responses you get.

especially when I claim to know.

Chriliman, honey, you are not as important as you feel.
Btw. what exactly is it that you claim to know? As far as I have seen, you never made it beyond claiming to know "the truth".

You don't accept my claim as true, but you also don't accept it as false, which leaves you not knowing and back to being frustrated that I claim to know.

Why would that frustrate me? I mean, there are plenty of people claiming all sorts of special knowledge. I mean, this is the interwebz - what else would I expect?
If you are interested to learn what actually tends to wear me out about this thread:
1. Your initial claim that you had "food for thought" to share - which finally turns out to amount to a ridiculous bit of armchair psychology, based on faulty observation.
2. Your habit of presenting empty word salad as "reasonable" arguments.

 

[Chriliman]

Where is the problem? Where is the contradiction?

The problem is most atheists I talk to would not claim that they know it's false that an eternal infinite God exists. Yet you do claim this.