Father Nathan Monk stepping down from priesthood in support of LGBTQ?

[isshinwhat]

If anyone is interested I can post his response here, or PM me and I will send you a link.

 

[buzuxi02]

I read something on OC.net. I think there even wierder than I thought. No need Issin. Are they into alternative lifestyes? Beyond bizarre, i applaud the bishop who told them they will never enter the Church, he was proven correct.


Actualy I have one question, what is it with some americans that start their own churches and act like cult leaders? What do they do with the religion of their youth? Any sincere christian comes to the church as an individual, not together with a cult like group.

This was the fault of the heirarchy who didnt insist these people come to the church as laymen, who would take secular jobs. Bringing in entire heretical groups is always a bad idea. The west has a strange mindset when it comes to religion.

 

[GregConstantine]

"what is it with some americans that start their own churches and act like cult leaders? What do they do with the religion of their youth? Any sincere christian comes to the church as an individual, not together with a cult like group."

This is the fruit of Protestantism/the Reformation. One man (Martin Luther) decides for himself what is truth, and starts his own Church. Therefore, others follow in his example. If he can do it, why can't I? Who are you to tell me what to do? Sounds familiar?
This is not unique to Americans, it's just that in America you have a lot more freedom to start a cult if you want to.

Back to this Nathan nut job, is anything concrete being done? Is anyone who knows him personally attempting to appeal to any shred of decency left in him to take down his FB page?

 

[isshinwhat]

I seriously doubt it will come down. Keep praying for him, he and his family have dealt with a lot, and their entrance into Orthodoxy was not a easy one, nor were they welcomed warmly by all. And to his credit, he did try and until this regression, surprised me with the degree to which he embraced Orthodoxy. He is not a nutjob, but he does need guidance and I agree with those who state he should have been welcomed more slowly... There's a lot to the story, but at it's core is a man who feels rejected and lost. Please pray for him, his wife and daughters, and their unborn child. I am conservative, in the military, an in many ways my views lie 180 out from Nathan. That being said, I cannot rejoice in seeing someone suffer, I've seen too much of it. He has his gifts, unfortunately the Devil has use them to carry him astray... Lord have mercy...

 

[GregConstantine]

sorry, not buying it. What about the suffering he is causing by having his FB profile? So if he suffers, its ok for him to cause others to suffer? He is "suffering" so we have to tolerate his bad behavior?

No wonder we have people like him coming into Orthodoxy. This culture of avoidance of confrontation is toxic!

 

[buzuxi02]

Look I hope this guy is a normal fellow, most of OC.net have warmed to his situation. But I see red flags just the fact that his wife enchanted all the men in OC.net because she is 'cute' and 'hot' is enough to wonder if these people are charismatic cultists.

But I'm still wondering about this "group" he was head of and the inclination towards creating vagante assemblies. I find this quite perplexing.

 

[isshinwhat]

sorry, not buying it. What about the suffering he is causing by having his FB profile? So if he suffers, its ok for him to cause others to suffer? He is "suffering" so we have to tolerate his bad behavior?

The additional suffering of others scandalized or led astray by his fall only serves to further point out the ugliness of sin and the Fall of mankind.

No wonder we have people like him coming into Orthodoxy. This culture of avoidance of confrontation is toxic!

I'll put this politely, if you are directing this in any way towards me, my job is to fly close air support. I've shot people and been shot at; confrontation is not something I'm afraid of. I am not; however, afraid to show compassion, either. Knowing the details of the situation, I choose compassion. I have spoken with Nathan and he knows I disapprove, but confrontation here will not fix anything, although a good fight might make me feel like I could do something more, I really cannot and it will not help solve the problem.

 

[isshinwhat]

Look I hope this guy is a normal fellow, most of OC.net have warmed to his situation. But I see red flags just the fact that his wife enchanted all the men in OC.net because she is 'cute' and 'hot' is enough to wonder if these people are charismatic cultists.

Men like attractive women, nothing new there. Charismatic cultists is taking it a bit far, though.

But I'm still wondering about this "group" he was head of and the inclination towards creating vagante assemblies. I find this quite perplexing.

I understand the concern, and had I not stopped in and seen them, I might have been inclined to agree. Truthfully, though, there were people who liked his openness that left as he became more orthodox, but the ones who stayed were more young idealists who had hope that they could make a small difference, than cultish. Some are still, to my knowledge, faithful Orthodox.

I just hate to see people lose hope... It kills faith and hinders the love we are called to.

 

[GregConstantine]

I'd be more inclined to have "compassion" on him if he'd shut down that FB page. No amount of "suffering" compels anyone to set up a FB page.


If you're in communication with him, I'd would like to kindly suggest you'd speak to him about that one issue (shutting down the FB page)

I was not directing the comment about avoidance of confrontation towards you.
Thank you for your service to our country
(I'm not in the military but I work for the federal government)

 

[isshinwhat]

I'd be more inclined to have "compassion" on him if he'd shut down that FB page. No amount of "suffering" compels anyone to set up a FB page.

If you're in communication with him, I'd would like to kindly suggest you'd speak to him about that one issue (shutting down the FB page)

I will mention it to him.

I was not directing the comment about avoidance of confrontation towards you.
Thank you for your service to our country
(I'm not in the military but I work for the federal government)

Understood. Thank you, and I appreciate you doing your part, as well. May God help and bless us.

 

[FireDragon76]

Why exactly did he leave Orthodoxy?

Nathan Monk wouldn't be the first Orthodox clergyman to be sympathetic to gays and lesbians... so why leave? Why make the fuss? Is he just young and idealistic and frustrated?

I can understand being frustrated and being a lone voice but sometimes God calls us to do impossible things, so I'm wondering, why did he leave?

 

[rusmeister]

Why exactly did he leave Orthodoxy?

Nathan Monk wouldn't be the first Orthodox clergyman to be sympathetic to gays and lesbians... so why leave? Why make the fuss? Is he just young and idealistic and frustrated?

I can understand being frustrated and being a lone voice but sometimes God calls us to do impossible things, so I'm wondering, why did he leave?

Hey, FD,
On sympathy to gays and lesbians - I think you don't get the distinction between our sharp condemnation of the sin and our considerable compassion for the sinner, being one ourselves, and chief at that. We ARE sympathetic to the people and their plight - but NOT to their wrong desires. Is that a difficult distinction to get? How do you feel about alcoholism?

I'm old (sort of) and idealistic, and I came to the Church, and have nowhere to go, because here are the words of eternal life.

At any rate, God does not call us to leave the Church.

 

[Damaris]

I seriously doubt it will come down. Keep praying for him, he and his family have dealt with a lot, and their entrance into Orthodoxy was not a easy one, nor were they welcomed warmly by all. And to his credit, he did try and until this regression, surprised me with the degree to which he embraced Orthodoxy. He is not a nutjob, but he does need guidance and I agree with those who state he should have been welcomed more slowly... There's a lot to the story, but at it's core is a man who feels rejected and lost. Please pray for him, his wife and daughters, and their unborn child. I am conservative, in the military, an in many ways my views lie 180 out from Nathan. That being said, I cannot rejoice in seeing someone suffer, I've seen too much of it. He has his gifts, unfortunately the Devil has use them to carry him astray... Lord have mercy...

Whomever is harassing Nathan is doing a terrible thing, and same for those who treated him poorly as a priest.

Nathan is saying a lot of harsh things and it is hard for people who love the Orthodox Church to read that. But if people can't react from a good and loving place, they should stop saying anything.

It would also help if Nathan took some time away from Facebook for soul-searching, rather than continuing to kick the hornet's nest.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Whomever is harassing Nathan is doing a terrible thing, and same for those who treated him poorly as a priest.

Nathan is saying a lot of harsh things and it is hard for people who love the Orthodox Church to read that. But if people can't react from a good and loving place, they should stop saying anything.

It would also help if Nathan took some time away from Facebook for soul-searching, rather than continuing to kick the hornet's nest.

Good point...

 

[GregConstantine]

@ Isshinwhat,

Thank you. My main issue with him right now is his FB page. If someone truly feels he or she cannot be Orthodox at anytime in their life for honest to goodness reasons, they have the free will to do so. God does not force all to come to him, but calls all to come to him.

But there is absolutely no good reason for him to have that FB page (not his personal page, but the public figure one)

Whatever may have happened to him, (and this goes for all of us) there is no reason for him to go on FB and cause such a scandal. No amount of any personal suffering he may have experience can excuse such behavior.

I've asked him twice why he didn't do the mature Christian thing when he stepped down from being a priest and kept that privately between him and his bishop, and twice he has ignored my question.

 

[FireDragon76]

Hey, FD,
On sympathy to gays and lesbians - I think you don't get the distinction between our sharp condemnation of the sin and our considerable compassion for the sinner, being one ourselves

I know Orthodox clergy and laity who support civil unions or marriage for gays and do not consider homosexual acts to necessarily be sinful in general - I would describe them as quietly pro-gay. They do not necessarily consider their gay rights stances the most important issue in their spiritual lives, so it doesn't necessarily cause them to leave Orthodoxy, and I suppose they regard anti-gay opinions in the Orthodox Church as due to ignorance rather than some kind of dogmatic statement about the Orthodox faith- they don't view being pro-gay as un-Orthodox.

So I'm wondering, why did Nathan Monk leave?

 

[GregConstantine]

It has got to be understood by all that everything the Church does and teaches has everything to do with what is salvation. And what is salvation? Salvation is unity with God and with each other and victory over and healing from death and sin. Unity with God is otherwise known as Theosis. That is the goal we are aiming for.

Anything that gets in the way of the goal of Theosis is considered "sin", aka "missing the mark" (the mark or the bull's eye is Theosis)

The Church in her wisdom and experience, and from the revelation of God to the Church, has determined that sexual activity outside of the mystery of marriage which is to take place only between a man and a woman is "missing the mark."

We who are Orthodox, through our baptism vows, have pledged that we will believe, support, and practice the teachings of the Orthodox Church.

This, my friends, is basic Orthodoxy 101. Those clergy should know better than to believe that anything the Church knows to be missing the mark to not be sin. The laity on the other hand, are not completely absolved of the responsibility of knowing this, but their situation is a little bit more understandable than a clergy who went to seminary and should absolutely know better.

So Nathan apparently felt he did not agree with the above, and made a good decision to step down, however, he is teaching his heresy on FB and is scandalizing believers by his behavior on FB.

I'd like to know the names of these clergy you mentioned. If they are so right in their position, they should have no problems with others knowing who they are and what they teach, despite the consequences.

Here's my other pet peeve that really grinds my gears. We are free to be Orthodox or not be Orthodox. If anyone feels he/she is not ready or cannot be Orthodox at any particular juncture in their life, they are free to not be Orthodox, but man, please, I wish those like Nathan would stop trying to change what we believe.

 

[Lukaris]

I know Orthodox clergy and laity who support civil unions or marriage for gays and do not consider homosexual acts to necessarily be sinful in general - I would describe them as quietly pro-gay. They do not necessarily consider their gay rights stances the most important issue in their spiritual lives, so it doesn't necessarily cause them to leave Orthodoxy, and I suppose they regard anti-gay opinions in the Orthodox Church as due to ignorance rather than some kind of dogmatic statement about the Orthodox faith- they don't view being pro-gay as un-Orthodox.

So I'm wondering, why did Nathan Monk leave?

Well you must know people who are ignorant of sin & are carried on by tides of mass secular opinion in which notions of love & kindness can become relativistic.

A law like DOMA upheld a concept of marriage that had been commonly understood as sound (vs. polygamy) for millenia until a new secular trend developed (SSM) & said it was oppressed once it was hatched. There was no history of oppression with DOMA because it upheld a passive status quo so an Orthodox person who has focus would find it sensible. Now the secular law has changed, so we say "live & let live" to those in the world but we place our faith in Christ towards which the world falls short; we urge anyone in the fallen world to leave it & come to faith ( we are sickly siners ourselves).

This Nathan Monk, from what I have read, was haphazardly catechised & ordained & those who did so apparently need to be addressed about it. I had heard that he had approached the Antiochoan OC of America & Bishop Antoun apparently knew this guy was not ready so in his own apparent self justification, he went elsewhere. Where he went he started to agitate local secular authorities over a panhandling law; Orthodox Christians are not agitators. I would think if Mr. Monk is serious about poverty, he would have contacted FOCUS N.A. (an American Orthodox charity fighting poverty) & tried something truly constructive.

Mr. Monk seems to be deluded & accuses the church of not conforming to his more worldly concepts of love, peace, justice etc. so now it bears the wrath of his misguided self righteousness.

 

[FireDragon76]

Well you must know people who are ignorant of sin & are carried on by tides of mass secular opinion in which notions of love & kindness can become relativistic.

No, most of them are devout Orthodox Christians... some have been Orthodox Christians for decades.

 

[Lukaris]

No, most of them are devout Orthodox Christians... some have been Orthodox Christians for decades.

Well I saw a grandparent who was born Orthodox being quizzed by a grandchild during coffee hour (after DL) if he thought SSM is ok & he was befuddled. If what is said re marriage in Genesis 2, honoring our father & mother in the 10 commandments, the Lord's reiteration in of marriage per Genesis in the Gospel of Mark, St. Paul's verese in Ephesians etc. I do not know of any definitions other than between a man & a woman in Christianity.