Faith in Works + Works Saves?

sdowney717

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Study up on John 6... regarding our salvation, it is entirely God's work in Christ that saved us.
Jesus tells us that the work of God is THAT YOU BELIEVE IN CHRIST WHOM HE HAS SENT.

All that God performs in them that work of HIS, all will believe in Christ and be saved. God does not fail in HIS WORD, HIS WORD accomplishes the purposes whereunto He has sent the WORD, that WORD is Christ.

John 6

24 when the people therefore saw that Jesus was not there, nor His disciples, they also got into boats and came to Capernaum, seeking Jesus. 25 And when they found Him on the other side of the sea, they said to Him, “Rabbi, when did You come here?”

26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled.27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”

28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”

29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”

30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”

32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”

34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”

35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”


What you read of in many posters is they simply add onto the understanding God has given us in Christ which Christ clearly stated already.

They will take up other scriptures or human reasoning in the attempt to nullify the words of Christ. And as a result complicate salvation into a bunch of human rules and teachings about scripture, not what the scripture actually says.

Only scripture matters, not an individual's philosophical bent.
Salvation needs to be comprehended in the light of Christ's own words, after all Christ is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our salvation experience.
Salvation is not turning scripture into something another person has biased according to their faulty thinking.
We can know nothing about salvation except what Christ has already told us about salvation.
All Apostolic writings must align with Christ and we must align our minds with Christ's words. Otherwise, your just a deceived pontification false christ, of whom Christ said there will be many false christs who will deceive many people.

Matthew 24 has been proven true, has it not?

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you.
5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many.

 
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expos4ever

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For those who believe that one's salvation is contingent upon one's performance, what is the basis of the hope for such people but the faith that they will end up living up to a level of performance qualifying them for salvation. And given that they themselves offer no guarantee that such will come to pass, I don't see much basis for hope and joy given such a soteriology.
The hope lies in the promise that it is the Holy Spirit that will be the "engine" that generates the good works. And surely the Holy Spirit "know" the "level of performance" that must be achieved.
 
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fhansen

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Concerning Salvation from eternal damnation in hell fire. (Just to be specific about what "salvation" I'm referring to)

For those who believe that one's salvation is contingent upon one's performance, what is the basis of the hope for such people but the faith that they will end up living up to a level of performance qualifying them for salvation. And given that they themselves offer no guarantee that such will come to pass, I don't see much basis for hope and joy given such a soteriology.

The "faith" of such people is essentially "faith in their works"

Their logical formula for salvation is thus:

(Faith in their works) + Works => save

Much as one could argue this idea can be derived from James (Both from his statements in Acts 15 and his epistle), is that really the gospel message Paul preached?
What Paul preached is the same as Jesus preached, “…if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” 1 Cor 13:2 “Now these three remain, faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love.” 1 Cor 13:13 “The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” "Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom 13:9-10

Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matt 22:37-40

This is what faith, as it establishes relationship/union with God, is meant to lead man to; this is the justice God seeks to draw man into. Works, such as those meant by Gal 5:6, “The only thing that counts is faith working through love”, or those good works cited in Eph 2:10 which were prepared for us in advance by God, having been created to do them in Christ Jesus, or those by which we’ll be judged which are outlined in Matt 25:31-46, are simply the measure of that love; they’re what love does, by its nature. God doesn't simply forgive sins; He wants more for us than that; He also expects and enables us to 'go, and sin no more'.
 
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bcbsr

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What Paul preached is the same as Jesus preached, “…if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.” 1 Cor 13:2 “Now these three remain, faith, hope, and love, but the greatest of these is love.” 1 Cor 13:13 “The commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not covet,” and whatever other command there may be, are summed up in this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” "Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom 13:9-10

Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matt 22:37-40

This is what faith, as it establishes relationship/union with God, is meant to lead man to; this is the justice God seeks to draw man into. Works, such as those meant by Gal 5:6, “The only thing that counts is faith working through love”, or those good works cited in Eph 2:10 which were prepared for us in advance by God, having been created to do them in Christ Jesus, or those by which we’ll be judged which are outlined in Matt 25:31-46, are simply the measure of that love; they’re what love does, by its nature. God doesn't simply forgive sins; He wants more for us than that; He also expects and enables us to 'go, and sin no more'.

None of those verses talking about how to be saved - how to be justified. That's the issue. You're reading into to the Scriptures was it doesn't say in order to advocate a salvation by works soteriology inherent in your heretical Catholic sect.
 
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fhansen

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None of those verses talking about how to be saved - how to be justified. That's the issue. You're reading into to the Scriptures was it doesn't say in order to advocate a salvation by works soteriology inherent in your heretical Catholic sect.
No, you've created a novel heresy with your "faith alone" doctrine. To condense Catholic theology, we're justified by being transformed, by being made just, and that justice is defined by love. Faith is the doorway to that justice, but not the end of it by any means. Love is the end of man's justice. This, the church of God has known since the beginnings of Christianity.

Jesus didn't come so that justice would suddenly be ignored or dismissed by God, but so that authentic justice would be restored and established in God's kingdom.
 
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