Evangelicals: Are billions of people going to burn in hell?

[Berean777]

Which is why the Lord says this:

"Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. "I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance." (Isaiah 45:22-23)

But of course, few professing Christians actually believe God's words, choosing rather to pick, choose and assemble scriptures that appear to support their particular doctrinal views. And indeed, this is why so "few are chosen" to be the ruling class of Christ's bride.

May I ask is this coming from a preterist doctrinal view. Thankyou kindly.

 

[D. A. Taylor]

Interesting question. Frankly, regarding this issue, the date of Christ's return never entered my mind. However, I do think that Jesus made it quite clear that He would return during the lifetime of His 1st Century disciples.

 

[Berean777]

Of course they will. As they are being cast into hell.

After death everyone will come kneeling before the feet of Christ and be judged every man according to his works. That is why it is written "Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen.

These people are all the departed of all nations who come before the Lord. Which is why those who pierced or rejected him will be doing alot of mourning and gnashing of teeth when they finally come to realise their fate in the place called hell. The rich man in the story of Lazarus gave his testimony of an unpleasant place after death.

Stair way to heaven after death or a one way ticket to the darkness of confines of hell, which is a solitary confinement for the soul. Hell is a place where the disembodied departed is in conscious darkness. The soul has no sensory interface which it had when it was clothed with a biomechanical earthly body. Now the soul is in a state of existing in conscious darkness, like a brain suspended in space without any discernment of time.

 

[BobRyan]

Drag -- as in
So in the Sept. LXX, e.g., Sgs 1:4; Jer 31:3, "with lovingkindness have I drawn thee."

Rev 3
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Rev 22
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Romans 10 Explains a lot

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed.”

Rev 3 does not agree with your quote
20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock; if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him, and he with Me.

Rev 22 does not agree with your quote
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

John 12:32 "I will DRAW ALL mankind unto me" -- that is supernatural. God's drawing fully enables the choice to accept the Gospel that depravity disables.

God calls us all to Himself. Some respond and are saved, the rest are not.

But in the final judgement, everyone will bow before Him as judge as he sentences them to either eternal salvation or eternal destruction.

Amen!

God says in Matt 7 that "many" are on the wide road that leads to death and destruction at the end of time - it is only the few on the narrow road that are saved.

So as you point out - God draws ALL - and God "so loved the world that He gave" -- that would be the "lost world" the world of sinners -- yet God also enables events such that 'whosoever will may come' in the non-forced model of Rev 3 and Romans 10.


So then on that one point - i think we can agree.

in Christ.

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Stair way to heaven after death or a one way ticket to the darkness of confines of hell, which is a solitary confinement for the soul. Hell is a place where the disembodied departed is in conscious darkness. The soul has no sensory interface which it had when it was clothed with a biomechanical earthly body. Now the soul is in a state of existing in conscious darkness, like a brain suspended in space without any discernment of time.

You realize that "you quoting you" is not as convincing as "you quoting the Bible" -- right??

 

[Berean777]

You realize that "you quoting you" is not as convincing as "you quoting the Bible" -- right??

Thanking you for your feedback, I will take that on board.

 

[Aelred of Rievaulx]

As a Catholic with quite Eastern leanings I should have to say that I fundamentally hope and pray for the salvation of all.

 

[D. A. Taylor]

Aelred, the writings of the apostle Paul should give you inspiration:

"For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth" (I Timothy 2:3-4).

 

[Light of the East]

It is not ONLY about actually believing in what Jesus said to be saved. There has to be a real and tangible relationship between the saved and the saviour.

Many can be called by the preaching of scriptured/gospel, yet very few manage to establish a real and tangible relationship with the one Lord.

As the risen Lord says I stand at the door of your hearts and knock and if anyone hears my voice and opens their heart to me, I will come into him/her and SUP with him/her in Spirit.

If we are hearing and believing in Jesus but not Supping with him in Spirit, then we are deceiving ourselves. It would be likened to a bride who never becomes intimate with her husband but still insists that she believes in her husband.

As the spiritual bride of Christ we need to be spiritually intimate with Jesus to be saved. As Jesus would say you in me and I in you. This spiritual oneness (At-One-Ment) is the intimacy and faithfullness between a spiritual husband and wife, akin in a similar way the earthly husband and bride are to be one flesh. We as the bride of Christ, who are called to be one Spirit with the Lord. This is what supping with the Lord is.

Even the demons believe in the word of Jesus and shudder and obey, but those who are in Christ are more than just believers of Jesus, they are united in Spirit and tied to the blood of the Lord which is the only covenant that God the Father approves of.

You realize that you have given a very nice description of the Eucharist in which the Flesh of our Lord Jesus is united with our flesh and we become one!

 

[D. A. Taylor]

I realize that in John 17, Jesus said that both He and the Father dwell in Christians. So why do Catholics "leave out" the presence of the Father? And most interestingly in His statements, Jesus seems to have forgotten all about a personage called the "holy spirit" (in John 15:26 Jesus explains why).

 

[Berean777]

You realize that you have given a very nice description of the Eucharist in which the Flesh of our Lord Jesus is united with our flesh and we become one!

Yes and Amen!

 

[Berean777]

As a Catholic with quite Eastern leanings I should have to say that I fundamentally hope and pray for the salvation of all.

But reality speaks volumes and not every one will be saved.

Again the Father chooses who he wants for his Son. After all it is the Father who is sending invitations to the wedding supper of his only begotten Son to those who are desirable to him. After all the Father knows everything because he is all seeing and all knowing.

This beloved and glorious Son has said and stands by his words that

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers! (Matthew 7:21-23)

Jesus here is talking specifically about the believers themselves who call upon the name of the Lord. So you can immediately dismiss those who don't even call upon his name. Therefore there goes 80% of the world's population, which is around 6 billion people.

So coming to the point within the context of the believers, let us understand the following

So what is the will of the Father?

And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. (John 6:39-40)

In these versus Jesus is alluding to the select or elect if you want to call them, who are selected and choosen by the Father for his Son's wedding. Wedding crashers who the Father doesnt choose are likened to the man who turned up to the wedding without the wedding garments.

“But when the king came in to see the guests, he noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. He asked, ‘How did you get in here without wedding clothes, friend?’ The man was speechless.
"Then the king told the attendants, ‘Tie him hand and foot, and throw him outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’“For many are called by the name of Jesus, but very few are chosen by God the Father.” (Matthew 22:11-14)

So coming back to seeing the Lord and then believing in him is what is reported to be by scripture, those who the Father chooses for his Son's wedding.

So what does it mean to see the Son, in which the believer knows that he/she has been chosen by God the Father?

The same word is used in the following verse

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

So the same word manifest or to show is stipulated in the process where the Father who loves that individual chooses him/her for the seeing of the Son.

This comes to mind that if the Son hasn't showed himself YET to those who call upon his name, then they are YET to be chosen by the Father.

What does to show mean?

The word implies sight, that is seeing through obviously visions, just like many of the apostles had seen the man in white, including Paul who was blinded by him on the road to Damascus.

Many throughout generations have come face to face with the form on the mount of transfiguration through visions and have in that matter been elected/chosen and in that regard not everyone who says Lord, Lord and Lord will be saved. As far as those who dont even call upon his name, well they are completely out of the race altogether.

Many will say I have seen the Son through some sort of human experience, but this is not what the usage of the word manifest means. Seeing would be like the story of Joseph who saw the Living Word and the Living Word touched his lips.

We can only know for sure that we have been chosen by the Father as the bride for his Son the groom, if we are brought before the man in white, the Living Word. The Father is arranging his Son's wedding as the wedding organiser and so it is an arranged spiritual marriage.

Many are called to the Christian walk by faith, but very few are chosen by God the Father.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

So lets see. Angels win vast majority over sinning. Humans cannot muster even half. Is that idea?

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed for staff review.

 

[Hammster]

MOD HAT ON



Since the discussion involves unorthodox views, it has been moved from General Theology.


MOD HAT OFF

 

[HighwayMan]

Interesting that this discussion is still going on, and we're getting so many various views.

One thing about the above note though - I suppose the question kind of remains, what is the "Orthodox" view then? The strange thing is that technically, yes, there is a mainstream agreed upon Orthodox view regarding a very general statement of salvation and hell --- yet, as we've seen, you get an endless amount of different interpretation as to what this seemingly agreed upon Orthodox view implies.

 

[lutherangerman]

I think there was a time when christianity had more sense for the court session we enter after death. In this court session God the Father is the Judge and Jesus is our Lawyer. And we can plead for his mercy there ... because the bible never says forgiveness doesn't continue after death.

I am persuaded that hell really is a realm where those go who are so evil not to want the free and honest and good heavenly life for them. They are not condemned to go to this hell, they choose to go there. This hell is not the place of fiery suffering as we might imagine it, instead it is a place of lawlessness where you practice sin freely. It's not a good place but the wicked do not care because they want to engage in perversions there. However, when they get tired of it they can return to God but then they must really repent and get a renewed self so the same shameful things won't come to their minds again. I think this is in the bible where it says the New Jerusalem has doors and that those who want to continue to do evil, are outside of it. They are not condemned to live there, in fact God regrets their choices, they simply want to live there against God's will and of course they cannot be allowed to pervert the heavenly life.

But in the court session itself, God has provided with Christ's cross a way to forgive every man's sins and to get him into heaven after death. Our sins may weigh much but the sacrificial death of Christ weighs much more. It's like on scales, the weight of our sins might condemn us, but the weight of Jesus' cross outweighs it. That means there is hope for everyone, even for those who may have professed Christ on Earth and who haven't done much evil. It is only the question of whether humans want the good life with God in Heaven, or the evil life in hell. I do not think many people choose the latter, it is maybe 3 or 5 percent at most, I guess.

 

[Berean777]

The message of warning is to be watchful for you know not in what day and hour the thief (death) comes to destroy your earthly house (body).

In the words of Jesus there is an urgency coupled with the warning message above, that we are to keep the faith even onto death, because after we die the race is finished. As Paul writes I have finished the race and I have kept the faith.

After death the race for one's salvation is finished and there are no reruns, no second chance offers on the table, no purgatory to cover for imperfections that prevent you from entering into the Kingdom of Heaven in the first place. When you die all is done and dusted and you either become the recipient of eternal life or not.

Some want to water down the gospel message to make it more palatable and this wishful thinking robes them from getting it right in this life. Once you die there is nothing more to prove beyond this life. The question of salvation solely hinges in this life, so as the Lord says keep the faith even onto death.

 

[lutherangerman]

The bible nowhere explicitly claims that there can be no forgiveness for you after death. In fact logic, love and mercy and suffering and equality and justice and the worth of a man suggest that indeed there can be forgiveness and grace from Christ after death in the heavenly judgment.

 

[Berean777]

Your correct, the Bible doesn't explicitly declare that there can't be forgiveness after death and by the same token the Bible doesn't explicitly declare that there can be forgiveness after death.