Encouragement for the End Times from Corrie Ten Boom

Carl Emerson

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I have not "stood up" for Jesus much of my life... i am hoping that my end will be more honoring than my beginning.

Will we fight for our Lord or will we roll over when pushed?

This is a good little book worth reading...

From Mau Mau to Christ. Author: KENNETH NORMAN PHILLIPS

Documents the martyrdom and courage of Christians during the Mau Mau movenemt in Kenya, includes testimony of a Brother given divine ability to survive a merciless attack with machetes.

One of our own dear Pastors here in NZ - Peter Morrow was attacked with a machette and survived.
 
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Why should anyone believe you?
Make your case or leave it.
Luke and Matthew considered together both describe the "Great Tribulation" as being the "days of vengeance". Luke 21:8-35 records Christ's entire list of everything that would take place in the "beginning of sorrows" period as well as the "Great Tribulation" which followed. Christ then announced to his disciples at the end of giving that entire list, "Watch ye, then, in every season, praying that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." (Luke 21:36 - YLT). That list of "all things" which Christ was referring to, including the Great Tribulation, were all included in what was "ABOUT TO come to pass" in Christ's own first-century generation.
 
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dwb001

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Luke and Matthew considered together both describe the "Great Tribulation" as being the "days of vengeance". Luke 21:8-35 records Christ's entire list of everything that would take place in the "beginning of sorrows" period as well as the "Great Tribulation" which followed. Christ then announced to his disciples at the end of giving that entire list, "Watch ye, then, in every season, praying that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that are about to come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man." (Luke 21:36 - YLT). That list of "all things" which Christ was referring to, including the Great Tribulation, were all included in what was "ABOUT TO come to pass" in Christ's own first-century generation.
So you are skimming everything and providing no detail at all.
Your vague references provide no details.
 
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So you are skimming everything and providing no detail at all.
Your vague references provide no details.
Christ already provided all the details in Luke 21:8-35 and Matthew 24:4 and following. They are there for anyone to read. And Christ said that "all these things" were "ABOUT TO come to pass", and it would be before that first-century generation had passed. All of those things, including the Great Tribulation, were confined to a time in the past, and are not threatening us today.
 
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dwb001

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Christ already provided all the details in Luke 21:8-35 and Matthew 24:4 and following. They are there for anyone to read. And Christ said that "all these things" were "ABOUT TO come to pass", and it would be before that first-century generation had passed. All of those things, including the Great Tribulation, were confined to a time in the past, and are not threatening us today.
I disagree with your timing issue.
So in the first century where there 200 million people on the Earth?
Did the Euphrates dry up in the 1st century?
Did the greatest earthquake of all time happen in the first century or have larger earthquakes happened since then?
Have all the seas disparaged on Earth?

If these things did not come to pass (every sign in Revelation)... then you might have your timeline wrong.
 
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I disagree with your timing issue.
So in the first century where there 200 million people on the Earth?
Did the Euphrates dry up in the 1st century?
Did the greatest earthquake of all time happen in the first century or have larger earthquakes happened since then?
Have all the seas disparaged on Earth?

If these things did not come to pass (every sign in Revelation)... then you might have your timeline wrong.
Do you see what you are doing with your hermeneutics? You are in effect saying, "Because I don't see how these things could have been fulfilled in the past, then Christ did not really mean what He said regarding the timing of those things that He said were about to happen." This is letting your own perceptions dictate what Christ's language meant, and not the other way around.

The supposed "200 million" is a gross exaggeration which mistakenly multiplies those "two myriads of myriads" in Revelation 9:16. All told, it was twenty thousand in total of those horsemen, since a "myriad" is ten thousand. This 20,000 was the number Josephus reported of Idumean horsemen under four commanders which came to invade Jerusalem in AD 67/68. This number is also reflective of the chariots of the Lord which were said to number twenty thousand in Psalms 68:17. In other words, the purpose of this 20,000 Idumean horsemen led by four commanders was a God-ordained one, performing His particular intentions of judgment on the city of Jerusalem for a specified hour, day, month, and year.

The "Euphrates" drying up is language reflective of ancient Babylon's main water source running through the middle of that city. In Revelation, Old Jerusalem was symbolically compared to Babylon "that great city", which was where our Lord was crucified. For the "Euphrates" to dry up for a symbolic Babylon (aka Old Jerusalem), that would indicate Jerusalem's main water source was going to suffer. And it did during the AD 66-70 period, according to Josephus. A drought prevailed from the time the Zealots got control of Jerusalem in AD 66 until Titus arrived in AD 70, when the water supply surged back to normal.

The "great earthquake" of Revelation 16:18 did not say that no earthquake in the entire world would ever surpass that one in magnitude. This was a "great earthquake" in the localized area at Jerusalem, a level of which had not been seen by anyone in the earth (tes ges - the land of Israel) at that location before.

Likewise the effects on the "seas" Revelation mentions, which to John's readers was either the Sea of Galilee, the Dead Sea, or the Mediterranean Sea - not the entire globe.
 
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dwb001

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Do you see what you are doing with your hermeneutics? You are in effect saying, "Because I don't see how these things could have been fulfilled in the past, then Christ did not really mean what He said regarding the timing of those things that He said were about to happen." This is letting your own perceptions dictate what Christ's language meant, and not the other way around.
Nope that is not what I am saying.
I am questioning your interpretation of Jesus timing... not Jesus words or intent.
The supposed "200 million" is a gross exaggeration which mistakenly multiplies those "two myriads of myriads" in Revelation 9:16. All told, it was twenty thousand in total of those horsemen, since a "myriad" is ten thousand. This 20,000 was the number Josephus reported of Idumean horsemen under four commanders which came to invade Jerusalem in AD 67/68. This number is also reflective of the chariots of the Lord which were said to number twenty thousand in Psalms 68:17. In other words, the purpose of this 20,000 Idumean horsemen led by four commanders was a God-ordained one, performing His particular intentions of judgment on the city of Jerusalem for a specified hour, day, month, and year.
Now who is manipulating Scripture.
The "Euphrates" drying up is language reflective of ancient Babylon's main water source running through the middle of that city. In Revelation, Old Jerusalem was symbolically compared to Babylon "that great city", which was where our Lord was crucified. For the "Euphrates" to dry up for a symbolic Babylon (aka Old Jerusalem), that would indicate Jerusalem's main water source was going to suffer. And it did during the AD 66-70 period, according to Josephus. A drought prevailed from the time the Zealots got control of Jerusalem in AD 66 until Titus arrived in AD 70, when the water supply surged back to normal.
Again you are changing the words of Revelation and falling afoul of rev 22:18-19.
The "great earthquake" did not say that no earthquake in the entire world would ever surpass it in magnitude. This was a "great earthquake" in the localized area at Jerusalem, a level of which had not been seen by anyone in the earth (tes ges - the land of Israel) at that location before.
Rev 16:18 says otherwise.
Likewise the effects on the "seas" Revelation mentions, which to John's readers was either the Sea of Galilee, the Dead Sea, or the Mediterranean Sea - not the entire globe.
Rev 21:1 says you are incorrect.

Maybe check the details first.
 
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Nope that is not what I am saying.
I am questioning your interpretation of Jesus timing... not Jesus words or intent.
So, when Jesus said that all those things He had listed in Luke 21:8-35 were "about to come to pass", and before His own generation had passed, this means 2,000 plus years later? That is hardly a realistic interpretation of Christ's language of imminence.
Again you are changing the words of Revelation and falling afoul of rev 22:18-19.
No, John was quite plain that "Babylon, that great city" is the same "great city where also our Lord was crucified". That's Old Jerusalem in anybody's dictionary.
Rev 16:18 says otherwise.
The setting for Revelation 16:18 is "the great city" (Jerusalem) which was divided into three parts in Revelation 16:19. That was the location for the "great earthquake", which was a literal one along that seismic fault line.
Rev 21:1 says you are incorrect.
For Revelation 21:1 to say that there would be "no more sea", this is not speaking of literal oceans. John had earlier said that Satan would be cast out of heaven down to earth to harass the inhabitants of both the earth and the sea. "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!" (Revelation 12:12). People don't inhabit the ocean. Scripture often refers to the "sea" as being representative of the Gentile nations of the Mediterranean as opposed to the "earth" being the promised land of Israel. In Isaiah 60:5, the "abundance of the sea" is directly compared to "the forces of the Gentiles".

So when John declares a point when there would be "no more sea", this was describing the eradication of any distinction between Jewish and Gentile categories - not that there would be no more oceans on the planet.
 
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dwb001

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So, when Jesus said that all those things He had listed in Luke 21:8-35 were "about to come to pass", and before His own generation had passed, this means 2,000 plus years later? That is hardly a realistic interpretation of Christ's language of imminence.
Two days later in God's timing. Very soon... and the generation not passing away is about those present seeing His glory which happened on the mount of transfiguration.
No, John was quite plain that "Babylon, that great city" is the same "great city where also our Lord was crucified". That's Old Jerusalem in anybody's dictionary.
Nope. That is not "plain" at all and very warping of the text.
The setting for Revelation 16:18 is "the great city" (Jerusalem) which was divided into three parts in Revelation 16:19. That was the location for the "great earthquake", which was a literal one along that seismic fault line.
Are there still mountains in the world(or that area of the world)? Rev 16:19 again.
For Revelation 21:1 to say that there would be "no more sea", this is not speaking of literal oceans. John had earlier said that Satan would be cast out of heaven down to earth to harass the inhabitants of both the earth and the sea. "Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea!" (Revelation 12:12). People don't inhabit the ocean. Scripture often refers to the "sea" as being representative of the Gentile nations of the Mediterranean as opposed to the "earth" being the promised land of Israel. In Isaiah 60:5, the "abundance of the sea" is directly compared to "the forces of the Gentiles".
You are removing words from Revelation again. You are literally saying that Revelation is wrong.
Yes people live on the sea... don't be silly.
Your other references show a "out there" mentality. Come back to planet Earth sometime soon.

So when John declares a point when there would be "no more sea", this was describing the eradication of any distinction between Jewish and Gentile categories - not that there would be no more oceans on the planet.
Nope. Because there is no Earth at that point only a New Earth.

Why can you not just accept that John wrote what he saw and he saw what God showed him.
So is Jesus, the angels, or John making things up in Revelation or do you trust them to tell the truth?
 
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Bobber

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It describes the Great Tribulation as the "days of vengeance" which were "about to take place" for Christ's own generation which had not received Him, rather than it being a future Great Tribulation period for us.
I'm hearing you. In the gospel is talks about the armies surrounding Jerusalem which seems to have happened in the 1st Century. Could there be a repeat of it as well in our day? Perhaps. Rev 6 the 5th seal speaks about some type of great persecution, or tribulation too.
 
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Two days later in God's timing. Very soon... and the generation not passing away is about those present seeing His glory which happened on the mount of transfiguration
The Mount of Transfiguration was not the occasion of the "kingdom coming with power" and the angels returning with Christ when rewards were given at a judgment of the dead. I have read others like yourself who try to explain away Christ's statement in Matthew 16:27-28 and Mark 9:1 (that He would return before some of those standing in front of Him had died) by trying to link that statement with the Mount of Transfiguration. Christ was not returning with angels on that Mount because He hadn't left yet. And the dead weren't being judged and no rewards were being given at that time.
Nope. That is not "plain" at all and very warping of the text.
If you can't see that "Babylon that great city", guilty of the shed blood of the prophets and saints (Rev. 18:24) is not the same as "the great city... where also our Lord was crucified" (Rev. 11:8), then you are missing the point Christ made when He wept over Jerusalem. He accused Jerusalem of being guilty of all the righteous blood shed on the earth from Abel to Zacharias, and for killing the prophets and stoning those sent to her (Matthew 23:35-37). Same guilt for "Babylon that great city" as for Jerusalem. They are one and the same city.
Are there still mountains in the world(or that area of the world)? Rev 16:19 again.
That is beside the point. When the great city was "divided into three parts" in Rev. 16:19, this was describing three different catastrophes which befell the inhabitants of Jerusalem in the AD 66-70 era. Just as Ezekiel divided his shorn hair into three parts to display the fates of those who were in Jerusalem during the Babylonian attacks, the same thing happened again in Jerusalem in AD 66-70. One third in Jerusalem succumbed to pestilence and famine; another third fell by the sword; the last third would be scattered to the winds with a sword drawn out against them (Ezekiel 5:12). This has nothing to do with literal mountains disappearing.

When Revelation 16:20 says that "the mountains were not found", this is a reflection of Psalms 125:2, "As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the Lord is round about His people..." The literal mountains around Jerusalem had always been her strongest defense against enemy attack, but when John says those "mountains were not found", this portrays God removing His protection from His people in that AD 66-70 period, so that the city would fall to destruction.
You are removing words from Revelation again. You are literally saying that Revelation is wrong.
Yes people live on the sea... don't be silly.
For Satan to come down in great wrath and harass those who "inhabited the sea", it doesn't mean those living ON the sea: it means those living IN the sea. And we aren't talking about Satan being enraged against whale, jellyfish, and shark populations. The "Sea" referred to Gentile lands, just as God had promised to "slay the Dragon that is in the sea" in Isaiah 27:1. Satan did not occupy the oceans, but he and his minions did operate in the Gentile lands from antiquity where devil-worship was rife.
Nope. Because there is no Earth at that point only a New Earth.
The "New Heavens and New Earth" conditions as described by Isaiah 65 included the presence of sinners, death occurring, planting and harvesting, building homes, childbirth, and prayers to God - all of which we experience today. Some of these things such as childbirth and prayers, and death are definitely not a feature of the after-life. The NHNE conditions are not a picture of the ultimate state intended for us. God will do even better than that in our future.



I'm hearing you. In the gospel is talks about the armies surrounding Jerusalem which seems to have happened in the 1st Century. Could there be a repeat of it as well in our day? Perhaps. Rev 6 the 5th seal speaks about some type of great persecution, or tribulation too.
God does seem to have patterns of repeated, cyclical events in scripture. Some prophecies have more than just one fulfillment (such as "out of Egypt have I called my son"). So there is that. But in the case of Revelation 6's 5th seal, those under the altar pleading for vengeance for their shed blood were the ones which Christ avenged in the AD 66-70 "days of vengeance". Those under the altar n Revelation 6:9 received every one a white robe (of resurrected righteous perfection). They were then told to rest for a "little season" until their fellow servants and brethren who were "about to be killed even as they" had died under martyrdom too.

These praying for vengeance in Rev. 6:9-11 were the same as those in Jesus' parable of the unjust judge in Luke 18:7-9, when He spoke about "avenging mine own elect" speedily, even though they had been pleading for vengeance for a very long time. I believe that the occasion when these elect pleading for vengeance were resurrected and given their white robes was the time when the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints arose from the dead. They had to wait or "rest" on the earth in those glorified bodies until the rest of their brethren were slain in those heavy periods of persecution which the first-century believers experienced. God would avenge all of them in those days when Jerusalem was judged for all the righteous blood shed on the earth.

Tribulation for believers of course was not exhausted in that turbulent era. Christ had warned His disciples that "in the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world". And we know that "all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." So no generation of believers is exempt from episodes of tribulation. We can certainly expect such persecution for our own generation of believers as well, so it is best to stay sober-minded about this.
 
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dwb001

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The Mount of Transfiguration was not the occasion of the "kingdom coming with power" and the angels returning with Christ when rewards were given at a judgment of the dead. I have read others like yourself who try to explain away Christ's statement in Matthew 16:27-28 and Mark 9:1 (that He would return before some of those standing in front of Him had died) by trying to link that statement with the Mount of Transfiguration. Christ was not returning with angels on that Mount because He hadn't left yet. And the dead weren't being judged and no rewards were being given at that time.

If you can't see that "Babylon that great city", guilty of the shed blood of the prophets and saints (Rev. 18:24) is not the same as "the great city... where also our Lord was crucified" (Rev. 11:8), then you are missing the point Christ made when He wept over Jerusalem. He accused Jerusalem of being guilty of all the righteous blood shed on the earth from Abel to Zacharias, and for killing the prophets and stoning those sent to her (Matthew 23:35-37). Same guilt for "Babylon that great city" as for Jerusalem. They are one and the same city.

That is beside the point. When the great city was "divided into three parts" in Rev. 16:19, this was describing three different catastrophes which befell the inhabitants of Jerusalem in the AD 66-70 era. Just as Ezekiel divided his shorn hair into three parts to display the fates of those who were in Jerusalem during the Babylonian attacks, the same thing happened again in Jerusalem in AD 66-70. One third in Jerusalem succumbed to pestilence and famine; another third fell by the sword; the last third would be scattered to the winds with a sword drawn out against them (Ezekiel 5:12). This has nothing to do with literal mountains disappearing.

When Revelation 16:20 says that "the mountains were not found", this is a reflection of Psalms 125:2, "As the mountains are round about Jerusalem, so the Lord is round about His people..." The literal mountains around Jerusalem had always been her strongest defense against enemy attack, but when John says those "mountains were not found", this portrays God removing His protection from His people in that AD 66-70 period, so that the city would fall to destruction.

For Satan to come down in great wrath and harass those who "inhabited the sea", it doesn't mean those living ON the sea: it means those living IN the sea. And we aren't talking about Satan being enraged against whale, jellyfish, and shark populations. The "Sea" referred to Gentile lands, just as God had promised to "slay the Dragon that is in the sea" in Isaiah 27:1. Satan did not occupy the oceans, but he and his minions did operate in the Gentile lands from antiquity where devil-worship was rife.

The "New Heavens and New Earth" conditions as described by Isaiah 65 included the presence of sinners, death occurring, planting and harvesting, building homes, childbirth, and prayers to God - all of which we experience today. Some of these things such as childbirth and prayers, and death are definitely not a feature of the after-life. The NHNE conditions are not a picture of the ultimate state intended for us. God will do even better than that in our future.




God does seem to have patterns of repeated, cyclical events in scripture. Some prophecies have more than just one fulfillment (such as "out of Egypt have I called my son"). So there is that. But in the case of Revelation 6's 5th seal, those under the altar pleading for vengeance for their shed blood were the ones which Christ avenged in the AD 66-70 "days of vengeance". Those under the altar n Revelation 6:9 received every one a white robe (of resurrected righteous perfection). They were then told to rest for a "little season" until their fellow servants and brethren who were "about to be killed even as they" had died under martyrdom too.

These praying for vengeance in Rev. 6:9-11 were the same as those in Jesus' parable of the unjust judge, when He spoke about "avenging mine own elect" speedily, even though they had been pleading for vengeance for a very long time. I believe that the occasion when these elect were resurrected and given their white robes was the time when the Matthew 27:52-53 resurrected saints arose from the dead. They had to wait or "rest" on the earth in those glorified bodies until the rest of their brethren were slain in those heavy periods of persecution which the first-century believers experienced. God would avenge all of them in those days when Jerusalem was judged for all the righteous blood shed on the earth.

Tribulation for believers of course was not exhausted in that turbulent era. Christ had warned His disciples that "in the world ye shall have tribulation, but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world". And we know that "all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." So no generation of believers is exempt from episodes of tribulation. We can certainly expect such persecution for our own generation of believers as well.
Very wordy.
Just make a simple point and I might read it.
Sorry. My eyes are not strong enough to wade through your long and windy post.
 
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Very wordy.
Just make a simple point and I might read it.
Sorry. My eyes are not strong enough to wade through your long and windy post.
I can do that.

All of your points are misinterpretations of scripture.

That do?
 
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dwb001

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I really try not to regard interpreting scripture as a combat sport. We share a “like precious faith”, don’t we? The prize we both win is a crown of eternal life, not points on a chalkboard.
Then why did you participate in comparing this to a sport? You are not being consistent.

And Revelation is not to be interpreted.

I'm just trying to keep people safe from the curse that Jesus said would come on those who mess up Revelation.
Rev 22:18-19
 
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