Ellen White: Meat eating weakens moral powers

[Adventist Heretic]

That is quite true. I have known people who, in their interest for excellent health, have adopted various popular diets and then died prematurely. I have a good friend who adopted a vegetarian diet and then suffered a massive stroke and is now in a nursing home, much before the time most people enter these institutions.

that is the exception not the rule

 

[The Liturgist]

That is quite true. I have known people who, in their interest for excellent health, have adopted various popular diets and then died prematurely. I have a good friend who adopted a vegetarian diet and then suffered a massive stroke and is now in a nursing home, much before the time most people enter these institutions.

Indeed, and the Adventist diet was created before we understood, for example, the connection between sugar and diabetes.

 

[bbbbbbb]

that is the exception not the rule

Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, they say. However, sadly, with even our very best efforts, death remains inescapable. There has been only one known exception to that rule, excepting Enoch and Elijah.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Indeed, and the Adventist diet was created before we understood, for example, the connection between sugar and diabetes.

Yes, and diabetes is a growing plague not only in developed countries such as the USA, but in developing countries such as China.

 

[Adventist Heretic]

Indeed, and the Adventist diet was created before we understood, for example, the connection between sugar and diabetes.

What does diabetes have to do with the SDA diet, not seeing the connection.

 

[prodromos]

Do they have gyros? Gyros are a roast of beef and lamb.

In Greece, yeeros is traditionally Pork, and sometimes chicken.

 

[The Liturgist]

In Greece, yeeros is traditionally Pork, and sometimes chicken.

Interesting. Do you think the recipe is changed in the US because of the success of the similar Turkish Doner Kebab in Germany and the UK?

 

[Adventist Heretic]

In Greece, yeeros is traditionally Pork, and sometimes chicken.

they call it greek and Quizos

 

[bbbbbbb]

In Greece, yeeros is traditionally Pork, and sometimes chicken.

Actually, I prefer the pork.

 

[returntosender]

A lot of things weaken moral values. MUSIC is a big one.

 

[trophy33]

A lot of things weaken moral values. MUSIC is a big one.

Or tea:

When these tea and coffee users meet together for social entertainment, the effects of their pernicious habit are manifest. All partake freely of the favorite beverages, and as the stimulating influence is felt, their tongues are loosened, and they begin the wicked work of talking against others.
Counsels on Diet and Foods, p. 423.

Ellen G. White's Crazy Quotes

 

[bbbbbbb]

A lot of things weaken moral values. MUSIC is a big one.

Fortunately, there are things which do strengthen moral values and music is also a big one, but not so much food.

 

[tall73]

That is quite true. I have known people who, in their interest for excellent health, have adopted various popular diets and then died prematurely. I have a good friend who adopted a vegetarian diet and then suffered a massive stroke and is now in a nursing home, much before the time most people enter these institutions.

Anecdotes don't always bear out what constitutes a healthy diet. But moreover, the thread is not about what constitutes a healthy diet anyway, but rather the claim that meat reduced moral power in the context of the Israelites.

A number of folks seem to fair rather well on a vegetarian diet. Though I do think you have to be careful to get vitamin b-12, which is hard to do on a vegan diet. The Bible doesn't condemn vegetarianism, and meat was not added until after the flood. But in the same way, meat was not forbidden to Israel either, and the various texts show Jesus providing it, God commanding people to eat it, and it being permitted to Israel to eat it when the Lord blessed them with it. The various texts simply do not agree with Ellen White's claims that meat eating reduces moral powers.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Anecdotes don't always bear out what constitutes a healthy diet. But moreover, the thread is not about what constitutes a healthy diet anyway, but rather the claim that meat reduced moral power in the context of the Israelites.

A number of folks seem to fair rather well on a vegetarian diet. Though I do think you have to be careful to get vitamin b-12, which is hard to do on a vegan diet. The Bible doesn't condemn vegetarianism, and meat was not added until after the flood. But in the same way, meat was not forbidden to Israel either, and the various texts show Jesus providing it, God commanding people to eat it, and it being permitted to Israel to eat it when the Lord blessed them with it. The various texts simply do not agree with Ellen White's claims that meat eating reduces moral powers.

Also, the Bible does encourage fasting. There can be various benefits to fasting. Oddly, in today's society we hear virtually nothing about fasting, but tons about various other diets and their supposed benefits. Not only does the Bible not support Ellen White's claims that eating meat reduces moral power, medical science does not support her theory.

 

[Terri Dactyl]

One of the really peculiar aspects of SDA dietary law is that it has absolutely nothing to do with the TEN COMMANDMENTS which the SDA believe are the ONLY commandments God expects people to obey. Also, it is only very tenuously related to any other dietary law, biblical or otherwise. It is not even vegan, although it is closer to that than the OT dietary commandments.

Well, Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean, so there you go. It has been since before the Flood.

 

[trophy33]

Well, Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean, so there you go. It has been since before the Flood.

"The majority of modern biblical scholars believe that the Torah—Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy—reached its present form in the post-Exilic period."

Dating the Bible - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Which is, roughly 500-300 BC. It was written by Jews, who already practiced clean and unclean division of food. So they incorporated it into the story of Noah, like they incorporated the 7th day rest (which they also already practiced) into the story about creation.

The story of Noah is not a direct reportage from the time of the event, its a story written in a retrospective, cultural manner.

 

[Terri Dactyl]

"The majority of modern biblical scholars believe that the Torah—Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy—reached its present form in the post-Exilic period."

Dating the Bible - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Which is, roughly 500-300 BC. It was written by Jews, who already practiced clean and unclean division of food. So they incorporated it into the story of Noah, like they incorporated the 7th day rest (which they also already practiced) into the story about creation.

The story of Noah is not a direct reportage from the time of the event, its a story written in a retrospective, cultural manner.

Oh, so the story of Noah is not true? Jesus talked about Noah, so I think the story is true. & clean beasts, 3 pair for mates, one for sacrifice., which was being done before Noah( you cant sacrifice an unclean animal) 2 unclean animals for mates. Makes perfect sense.

 

[trophy33]

Oh, so the story of Noah is not true? Jesus talked about Noah, so I think the story is true. & clean beasts, 3 pair for mates, one for sacrifice., which was being done before Noah( you cant sacrifice an unclean animal) 2 unclean animals for mates. Makes perfect sense.

We also talk about Noah. Its perfectly possible to talk about a story to make a point.

It actually makes sense only if it was written after the Jews already had a concept of clean/unclean animals. Noah would have no idea what such categories mean. Its the Mosaic Law thing, which came with Moses. These were rules for the people of Israel for the life in Palestine till Christ.

 

[tall73]

We also talk about Noah. Its perfectly possible to talk about a story to make a point.

It actually makes sense only if it was written after the Jews already had a concept of clean/unclean animals. Noah would have no idea what such categories mean. Its the Mosaic Law thing, which came with Moses. These were rules for the people of Israel for the life in Palestine till Christ.

There is no reason to think that Noah did not know what ceremonially clean animals were to be sacrificed. The mosaic law spelled out clean and unclean in relation to food (and specific animals for sacrifice). In Noah's time prior to the flood they were not eating animals so which animals to not eat would not have been needed. The sacrifice of animals by worshipers is first referenced back in the time of Adam, Cain, Abel, etc.

We see a sacrifice when Noah gets off the ark, and he knows which animals to sacrifice. And if there were only two of those clean animals that would have caused them to go extinct.

Genesis 8:20 20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. (NKJV)

 

[The Liturgist]

Oh, so the story of Noah is not true? Jesus talked about Noah, so I think the story is true. & clean beasts, 3 pair for mates, one for sacrifice., which was being done before Noah( you cant sacrifice an unclean animal) 2 unclean animals for mates. Makes perfect sense.

I do believe the reality of the Noah story as at least a massive regional occurrence, in part because of how prolific it is in Levantine mythology, but I would note that genetic diversity would require a larger breeding population to provide an acceptable safety margin. Fortunately if we localize the story we rule out the need for Noah to transport certain particularly exotic and space consuming animals and thus the project becomes simpler.