Ellen G. White & the SDA on alcohol?

realtruth101

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Its perfectly clear the bible speaks of wine as being alcoholic, but its also perfectly clear its one of the most abused substances, and I can see why the church wants to ban it from scripture, as it has caused great destruction for those who can't drink in moderation
 
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Elder 111

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Red wine is known to have anti-oxidants in it...an excellent way to help stave off cancer...a glass a day is good for the circulatory system, as well as the digestive track.
It sounds to me that those are good reasons to have a glass a day.
The beauty about it is that all the so call benefits of wine can be had more so in pure grape juice. That is scientific.
 
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PaladinValer

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Its perfectly clear the bible speaks of wine as being alcoholic, but its also perfectly clear its one of the most abused substances, and I can see why the church wants to ban it from scripture, as it has caused great destruction for those who can't drink in moderation

Just because some shouldn't doesn't mean all cannot.
 
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Elder 111

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The apostles were not against drinking
Christ drank alcohol
"John the baptist didnt come drinking or eating"
"Christ came drinking and eating"

If anyone really condemns alcohol they should know it IS OK to do it in your own home.
Jesus was not an alcoholic drinker.
 
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freezerman2000

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It's not the alcohol that's doing that for you. That's all I'm saying. It's the grape content in the wine providing those benefits. Of course I'm no wine drinker so perhaps I'm mistaken and red wine is made without grapes.

Wine tastes better than plain jane grape juice...it is more palatable for me...will the use keep me from seeing God's glory? Absolutely NOT!
drinking-13.gif
 
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PaladinValer

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Wine tastes better than plain jane grape juice...it is more palatable for me...will the use keep me from seeing God's glory? Absolutely NOT!
drinking-13.gif

According to some individuals' and even some denominations' theology, yes you are, sadly...

...but thankfully they are wrong and you are right :)
 
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metherion

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I would just like to interject with some more science of the day.

Up until fairly recently in the history of man did not know about germs. Now we do.

Also, up until fairly recently, there was not reliable water purification, and not all water was safe to drink. There were two main exceptions, two main ways to make water safe to drink. One was to make it into tea. The other was to make it into beer, or mix wine into it. There're reasons beer, wine, and tea are among the oldest drinks, this is one. Even if people didn't know WHY, mixing wine with water that it not safe to drink for some reasons (some diseases, not necessarily everything, not toxic metal waste, but some things you'd find in say, the Nile, or the Thames, or the Seine, or the Rubicon, or the JORDAN, or... you get the idea) because ethanol can be an antiseptic. So, while today you might get all the health benefits of wine from grape juice, without modern water processing, you wouldn't.

Back in the day in Rome, there was also a saying that went something along the lines of "they are barbarians who drink their wine unwatered", because wine was made very potent and was expected to be watered down in Roman cultures except for barbarians and drunkards. And could e drunk after adding unsafe water safely, because of the alcohol.

Also, aren't there separate words in Greek and Hebrew for juice versus fermented, alcoholic wine? Couldn't it be very easy to just check which word was used?

Also, for the record, I HATE the taste of almost all alcohol (there are 4 exceptions, none of them wine), but I see nothing wrong with it in and of itself.

Metherion
 
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tall73

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Before I post some information I want to state

a. I don't drink.

b. I have had one drink my entire life, when I took a sip of my dad's beer at a baseball game once when he wasn't looking. I was probably 9 at the time. It tasted bad and I promptly fell asleep.

c. I don't encourage anyone to take up drinking due to its possible risks if one gets drunk.

Now having said that, I don't see the evidence that the Bible condemns all drinking, only being drunk.


Note the following text which describes the Nazirite vow


Num 6:3 he shall separate himself from wine and strong drink. He shall drink no vinegar made from wine or strong drink and shall not drink any juice of grapes or eat grapes, fresh or dried.

Num 6:4 All the days of his separation he shall eat nothing that is produced by the grapevine, not even the seeds or the skins.

Note this is not a case where the wine being referenced is merely grape juice. Grape juice is treated with a separate term in the passage. Wine is also grouped with strong drink.

And then after this, when the vow is ended, he cuts his hair and can drink the WINE again. The wine is the same word as for wine above, and a different term is used of the juice.

Num 6:20 and the priest shall wave them for a wave offering before the LORD. They are a holy portion for the priest, together with the breast that is waved and the thigh that is contributed. And after that the Nazirite may drink wine.


The oath of the Nazarite was a vow of separation.

Num 6:1 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
Num 6:2 "Speak to the people of Israel and say to them, When either a man or a woman makes a special vow, the vow of a Nazirite, to separate himself to the LORD,

The vow represented a departure from normal habits to be separate for the Lord. Once the vow was over they returned to cutting their hair, drinking wine, etc.
 
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Elder 111

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Does the Lord forbid the use of any alcohol for personal consumption?
Pro 20:1Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Luke 1:
14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
 
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Lion King

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Pro 20:1Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Luke 1:
14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

I am going to ask you again; Does the Lord forbid the personal consumption of alcohol among all Christians? Yes or No?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Originally Posted by Lion King I am going to ask you again; Does the Lord forbid the personal consumption of alcohol among all Christians? Yes or No?
So would you say my bro Paul contradicts the Lord in 1 Tim 5:23 concerning wine?
Perhaps he meant it more for medicinal purposes :confused:

Young) 1 Timothy 5:23 no longer be drinking water, but a little wine be using, because of thy stomach and of thine often infirmities;

http://www.christianforums.com/t724911-3/#post8576910
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Wine or grape juice?

I've been studying traditions for Passover and came across the suggestion that there is some big disagreement over whether grape juice is an acceptable substitute for wine, but the book gave no further information. Can anyone shed some light on this issue for me, or at least tell me where to look?

TIA,
 
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Lion King

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Pro 20:1Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

i think you will find it is those who drink immoderately that are not wise.


Luke 1:
14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.
15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Yes, you are correct, John the Baptist never tasted a single drop of wine on his lips; "For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He has a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a drunkard, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children." Matthew 11: 18-19

How do you explain that?
 
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