EJW the Sabbath is a relationship

[fozzy]

God is Spirit, therefore the rest that He took after creation was spiritual rest. There was no physical weariness incurred in creating the earth. "The everlasting God, the Lord, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary" (Isaiah 40:28). Creation was not a physical work; it was wholly spiritual. God spake, and it was. And His word is spirit. Therefore, to keep God's Sabbath, or rest, is to enjoy spiritual rest. The Sabbath is not designed for mere physical rest, but for spiritual. It has a higher meaning than is commonly attached to it. True, we are enjoined from doing our own labor on that day, but the cessation from physical labor on the Sabbath day is but an emblem of the spiritual rest which God gives to those who accept Him as the Creator of all things. Without spiritual rest there is no true Sabbath-keeping. The Lord says that they who turn away their feet from the Sabbath, and do not do their own ways on His holy day, but call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honorable, shall delight themselves in the Lord. (Isaiah 58:13, 14). A man may refrain from labor on the seventh day as scrupulously as ever the strictest Pharisee did; yet if he does not know and delight in the Lord Jesus Christ, he is not keeping the Sabbath of the Lord. True Sabbath rest can be found only in Christ.

The Gospel in Creation by E.J Waggoner - chap. 7

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

I don't understand your reasoning Fozzy... you apparently state here, through brother Waggoner's words, the importance of properly keeping the Sabbath, spiritually as well as physically, just as Jesus said we are to keep the other nine.

But in another thread you stated...

in need of nothing especially from that legalistic, false prophet Ellen G White and her cult like devotion to the ten commandments!

That is the only reason your dead church was raised up to begin with - to take that message to the whole world not the worthless law that has never saved a single person.

Can you explain the contradiction here?

 

[fozzy]

Should be fairly self explanatory. The Sabbath is not a commandment. It is a moment in time that we spend with our creator. Do you really think that sinners can make something holy? Only God can do that.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Should be fairly self explanatory. The Sabbath is not a commandment. It is a moment in time that we spend with our creator. Do you really think that sinners can make something holy? Only God can do that.

I had to quote this so you could see what you wrote... you are contending that the 4th commandment is not a commandment?!

You are an interesting study...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Do you really think that sinners can make something holy? Only God can do that.

Where do you get your understanding of this statement? Who ever said we make anything holy? Christ sanctified and hallowed the Sabbath...

Strange reasoning you have Mr. Fozzy...

 

[fozzy]

The Sabbath was a commandment for the Jews a few thousand years ago. The Sabbath is not a commandment for Christians who are supposed to be under the new covenant today. It is a sign or symbol of the rest that Christ offers to all those who put their faith and trust in him. This means that there is no more preparation day or death penalty for picking up sticks or any of the old statutes that made the Sabbath a yoke of bondage. All those worthless rules have been abolished.

Jesus did whatever he wanted on the Sabbath and was constantly breaking the rules of the Pharisees because he did not view its observance the way they did. The Sabbath is a sign similar to how circumcision was a sign of the old covenant. The Jews perverted the sign into a work which needed to be performed in order to be saved just like the SDA's have perverted the Sabbath into a salvational issue.

The sign has no power or virtue it is just a symbol. Our relationship with Jesus is where the power and virtue lies. And I don't know about you but Jesus lets me do pretty much anything I want on the Sabbath. I have even been known to 'work' on the Sabbath. I don't like doing that but I have done it. I would never recommend that to the weak in faith because they would not be able to handle that kind of freedom.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

If Sabbath observance is an ordinance like circumcision, as you state, why was it written on the tables of stone (permanent), by God himself, along with the other nine commandments and placed inside the ark? The ordinances that were written by Moses on parchment (temporary), kept outside the ark, included all things fulfilled by Christ's life and ministry....

I fail to see how you, as a created being, can dictate what command that was given by the Creator himself, can be put aside...
If you wanted, could you ignore any of the other nine with impunity? I think not...

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

The Sabbath was a commandment for the Jews

Au contraire, mon ami....

Mark 2:27
And He said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:

The Bible clearly states that the Sabbath was for all men...



Also, the Sabbath was instituted in Eden, AFTER God created Adam... therefore, Adam would have honoured and worshipped God on the day He sanctified and hallowed. Long before there ever was a Jew.

Prayerfully consider these things brother...

 

[fozzy]

If Sabbath observance is an ordinance like circumcision, as you state, why was it written on the tables of stone (permanent), by God himself, along with the other nine commandments and placed inside the ark? The ordinances that were written by Moses on parchment (temporary), kept outside the ark, included all things fulfilled by Christ's life and ministry....

I fail to see how you, as a created being, can dictate what command that was given by the Creator himself, can be put aside...
If you wanted, could you ignore any of the other nine with impunity? I think not...

Do you have any clue how bad it looks when you constantly go to the Law and the fourth commandment to justify your Christian practices? No one cares what day you go to church on, what most Christians care about is being told they have to go back to the Law when they have been under Grace their whole lives. Until you can show that the Sabbath is part of the new covenant which is based on faith and love you will always be an old covenant legalist.

 

[fozzy]

Au contraire, mon ami....

Mark 2:27
And He said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:

The Bible clearly states that the Sabbath was for all men...



Also, the Sabbath was instituted in Eden, AFTER God created Adam... therefore, Adam would have honoured and worshipped God on the day He sanctified and hallowed. Long before there ever was a Jew.

Prayerfully consider these things brother...

I think you are a little slow. I'm the one who started this tread on the Sabbath which means I believe in the Sabbath! But unlike you, I always present the Sabbath from creation or the new testament, never the Law. We are not under Law anymore, we are under Grace so if the Sabbath is anything then is needs to be part of Grace.

And just to show that I'm a nice guy I am going to help you out. The concept that Waggoner brings out that the Sabbath is a sign of the new covenant is found in Hebrews 4. Here Paul uses the 7th day as a symbol of the rest that we find in Jesus Christ. He does not present it as a commandment but a symbol of something bigger. He further goes on to show that faith is likened to rest and unbelief is likened to work. So the idea being brought out is that a Sabbath keeper is someone who believes is Jesus Christ for their Salvation. He finishes by saying their remains a rest for the people of God. The word here in verse 9 is 'sabbatismos' and is the only place in the NT where this word is used. So Paul finishes by saying their remains a 'Sabbath rest' for the people of God implying that the Sabbath has not been abolished or changed it is still in force. But it is no longer a commandment or law it is a relationship with our creator Jesus Christ.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Just as keeping the last six commandments is about our relationship with each other...

 

[fozzy]

Sinners can't keep the last six commandments because their sinners! This is why we need a savior. Are you a sinner or have you attained perfection by your law keeping?

 

[DarylFawcett]

Jesus said that if you love Him you will keep His Commandments. What did He mean by that?

He also told the woman caught in the act of adultery to go and sin no more. Why would He say that to her?

 

[fozzy]

Jesus said that if you love Him you will keep His Commandments. What did He mean by that?

He also told the woman caught in the act of adultery to go and sin no more. Why would He say that to her?

And just what were Jesus' commandments? You know every time the word commandment is used in the NT is not a license to go back to the OT and keep the law. Are you even aware that the law was given to the Jewish people and not the Gentiles. Gentiles were never required to keep the law, ever! They came from paganism and idolatry and were brought into the church to live by faith in Jesus Christ!

Which brings us to the Sabbath. I can't even mention the Sabbath in polite society because Adventists have turned it into such a badge of legalism with their law worship. The Sabbath predates the law and the Jews and actually sin itself. It goes all the way back to creation and is the one thing that we had in a perfect world before sin even came into being. The Sabbath was made for mankind not the Jewish people. It does not need the law to prop it up.

 

[JojotheBeloved]

Romans 14 New International Version (NIV)


1 Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.

 

[JojotheBeloved]

Emphasis mine ^

 

[fozzy]

Whatever that means ^^^ Are you speaking in tongues? Maybe we should get an interpreter in here. Once again this thread is on the Sabbath and the spiritual rest that we receive from trusting in Christ for salvation. It is not about the law or the failed attempts to legislate Sabbath observance. I will be course correcting my threads occasionally as they seem to always go off course.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Making friends and influencing people again Foz?

Truth is, you don't want discussion... you want someone to validate your theories.

 

[fozzy]

With friends like you, who needs enemies? It is amazing to me that I start a few threads on EJ Waggoner and all anyone wants to talk about is Ellen White. There has to be a hundred threads on her, just go over there and have at it. Also, Waggoner is not my idol or anything like that. I actually disagree with him on minor issues but he is an excellent example of a Sabbath keeping Christian who was not a legalist! Those are few and far between. He ever lived to talk about the grace of God and the righteousness of Christ. This righteousness does not come by keeping the Sabbath or eating healthy or obeying the law. It comes solely by the goodness of God and is received by faith only not works lest any man should boast. You have nothing to contribute to the conversation because you don't understand that. Grace is an alien concept to you. The mere mention of the word brings to mind Jesuits and devils and some grand conspiracy. Grace is only an enemy to those who are working their way to heaven.

 

[EastCoastRemnant]

Look, I agree with you that we are not saved by works but only through the merits of Christ... I understand fully the Grace of Christ. It is because of this that I am obedient to his requirements, not as a means to but a product of. Hopefully this will put to rest your notion that i consider works to be my salvation. I honour the sabbath out of love for the One who sanctified it and hallowed it.

As far as Ellet goes, I would be careful hanging my theological hat on his theories, post 1888 message time frame. He was indeed inspired by the Spirit when preaching and writing on Christ's righteousness during his association and time on tour with Jones and EG White. But something happened to his theological view when he went to England. He openly commited adultry and justified it by a new theory of 'spiritual affinity'. He also taught that a believer is declared justified because the mystically indwelling Christ makes them truly righteous in character. This is similar to the Roman Catholic view as defined at the Council of Trent. The 'once saved, always saved' crowd ascribe to this also.

He came to an extreme view of perfection, strong opposition to church organization—since individuals were to follow the Holy Spirit directly with no need for formal organization, false views on faith healing, a rejection of the traditional sanctuary doctrine, and ultimately to pantheistic views that led him to a species of mystical spiritualism that opened the door to his personal moral failure.