Early Church Fathers

[JacktheCatholic]

Here is another link for Purgatory and a small quote from the site mentioning Origen. Of course Origen became a heretic later on his life but his earlier writings are strong in the Faith.

Link: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12575a.htm

Quote:

In Origen the doctrine of purgatory is very clear. If a man departs this life with lighter faults, he is condemned to fire which burns away the lighter materials, and prepares the soul for the kingdom of God, where nothing defiled may enter. "For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones (1 Corinthians 3); but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones? Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works." (P. G., XIII, col. 445, 448).

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Now Jack you sound like a Catholic epologist...Don't forget Barrett's...There's good unbiased sources..Ask Tonks...

Thanks!

I take that as a compliment. Maybe I will change my name to "JacktheApologist". LOL

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Of course if you ever need to see the ECF writings in their entirety there are many good sites. I am including a link to one of them.

Link: http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/

 

[HisKid1973]

Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the [/color]

14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss( of reward): but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

 

[Tonks]

www.ccel.org/fathers2 is one of the most complete sets of the "big time" ECFs...with much of the writings in full so that one can see everything in context.

monachos.net also has a bunch...but the site is Orthodox.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Ladybug, take my advice. Do not try to reinvent the wheel or bite of more than you can chew. Ask God to lead you to where he wants you and don’t fret about getting there immediately.

 

[CatholicFlame]

Dear Ladybug,

The questions that you are having seem like you want to know:

Did the early church really believe catholic teachings? Yes they did in a big way. As for the few doctrines that have been refined and defined more clearly in times past, well of course our Lord reminded even the Apostles that:

"There are many other things that I wish to tell you , but you cannot bear them now. But when the Holy Spirit comes, He will guide you into all truth."

John 16:12-13

This seems to be a teaching that Jesus would , in the course of time, help us make sense of all that He had accomplished. That is why there is such a thing as development of doctrine. It is only coming to a fuller understanding of what Jesus has already done.

This is similar to a christan who, after taking more time and effort to study scripture, learns more about who Jesus is and how he is called as a christian to live.

It was always there, yet the person deepens in their understanding of Him.

 

[Lady Bug]

Ladybug, take my advice. Do not try to reinvent the wheel or bite of more than you can chew. Ask God to lead you to where he wants you and don’t fret about getting there immediately.

You're right Miss Shelby. I think I'm stressing out way too much about this, and I think that part of the reason is that I want to be able to "prove myself" to someone else my beliefs but in all honesty, I really don't owe non-Catholics any explanation as to why I find myself sympathizing with Catholic beliefs.

(I'm in an ornery mood right now - so if my post is demonstrative of such a mood, that is the reason)

Not to sound like a Protestant but I frankly believe that all the rudimentary doctrines of Catholicism can be proved with the Bible alone. (I must emphasize: I am NOT Sola Scriptura!:o) So if someone were to say that a certain doctrine were invented I could say, "Sorry Charlie, I can give you scriptural bases for whatever the CC holds true." (this is not a direct reference or allusion to Cosmic Charlie)

I do think that the ECFs are simply good things to prove certain doctrines alleged to have been invented, were indeed believed in certain times, and I believe that the writings of the ECFs are good for edification and history.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

You're right Miss Shelby. I think I'm stressing out way too much about this, and I think that part of the reason is that I want to be able to "prove myself" to someone else my beliefs but in all honesty, I really don't owe non-Catholics any explanation as to why I find myself sympathizing with Catholic beliefs.

(I'm in an ornery mood right now - so if my post is demonstrative of such a mood, that is the reason)

Not to sound like a Protestant but I frankly believe that all the rudimentary doctrines of Catholicism can be proved with the Bible alone. (I must emphasize: I am NOT Sola Scriptura!:o)


So if someone were to say that a certain doctrine were invented I could say, "Sorry Charlie, I can give you scriptural bases for whatever the CC holds true." (this is not a direct reference or allusion to Cosmic Charlie)

I do think that the ECFs are simply good things to prove certain doctrines alleged to have been invented, were indeed believed in certain times, and I believe that the writings of the ECFs are good for edification and history.

Bingo, now we've got it----a better understanding on how one is to view the "Early Church Fathers". In regards, to the Bible, I think it best to say the Catholic Faith can be proved with the Scriptures in that she and the authority from which she derives her power is-----Christ and he and his gospel are not only preserved, but serve as the root or foundation of authority of the Holy Catholic Church. Thus as I like to say: The Catholic Church does not adhere to Sola Scriptura; she can prove her teachings using scripture, for she is rooted in Scripture and Scripture in her.