Does The Great Deluge In Genesis Of Necessity Must Be Local?

[random person]

Tell me more about how the speed of light is dominant over God's will.

It's interesting how much God is referred to as light, and created light in the first instance of reality.. and how science is obsessed with light because science cannot seem to nail it down.

 

[gluadys]

You'd have to win the lottery five times over to have created life out of it's own physical accord. Even by the mind bending size of the universe, these are odds that still go against logic.

The odds of anything that has happened are 1. No matter how fantastic the odds may have seemed before it happened. Once it happens, it has happened and is a certainty.

It strikes me odd that creationists love to put shackles on what God can do; so in your view, God can't tell the earth to "bring forth vegetation" (Gen. 1:11) or "bring forth living creatures of every kind" (Gen. 1:24) because he had forgotten to give the earth that capacity.

The Fermis Paradox is the phenomenon in which, by scientific decree, the Milky Way alone should have over 70 civilizations. Yet, we have not seen a single one. Space is completely sterile as far as what we've seen.
Do you know what that really supposes? It supposes that there is something flawed in science- that we have likely gotten something very wrong.

Completely irrelevant to the theory of evolution. Oh, and science never "decreed" any such thing. Fermi made a mathematical calculation which is not supported by observation. Observation trumps math. Just as observed events make the event a certainty no matter what the calculated odds against it happening prior to the event. Ever bet on a horse race?

Why not pursue a more relevant challenge, like common ancestry?

By the way, the very fact that Darwin couldn't even correctly identify the birds he studied is cause for marking him as a dubious scientist in the first place_

Not at all, given that his speciality was barnacles. As they say a jack-of-all-trades is master of none. Expertise requires specialization. That's why you don't go to a chemist to fix your computer even though both fields are part of science.

 

[SkyWriting]

How could largest zoo the world has ever seen...

God chose the best selection of animals Himself, for re-speciating and repopulating the world.

Another thing, how did 8 people manage to feed one million plus or even hundreds of thousands of animals over the course of a year, some animals require hundreds of pounds of nutrition everyday.How could largest zoo the world has ever seen, set in a giant ship floating on a flooded earth, be maintained by a miniscule staff of eight? Image the work that would be required daily? Would they need to work 16 hour shifts... 20 hour shifts daily? They would be dead on their feet every day.

Most classes of animals have the ability to hibernate, especially in a dark closed space.
Turtles actually stop breathing. This would likely happen "naturally" for many animals
and under God's influence, they could all hibernate. Perhaps hibernation that we see
today is a remnant of this particular voyage where every species slept for a year.

 

[random person]

God chose the best selection of animals Himself, for re-speciating and repopulating the world.



Most classes of animals have the ability to hibernate, especially in a dark closed space.
Turtles actually stop breathing. This would likely happen "naturally" for many animals
and under God's influence, they could all hibernate. Perhaps hibernation that we see
today is a remnant of this particular voyage where every species slept for a year.

Have you bothered to watch the videos?

How did the sloth travel from South America to the Middle East and back?

Why does Madagascar and Australia have unique species not found anywhere else in the world? Even their fossils are unique and not found anywhere else in the world? As if a flood never touched either!

So, all animals cross seas, cross oceans, cross deserts, cross jungles, cross swamps, cross mountains, cross valleys, etc and cross back, and never simply just perish or adapt to their post-flood lands? They instinctively know to go back to Africa, Asia, North America, South America, the Artic, etc?

 

[SkyWriting]

Have you bothered to watch the videos?
How did the sloth travel from South America to the Middle East and back?
Why does Madagascar and Australia have unique species not found anywhere else in the world? Even their fossils are unique and not found anywhere else in the world? As if a flood never touched either!
So, all animals cross seas, cross oceans, cross deserts, cross jungles, cross swamps, cross mountains, cross valleys, etc and cross back, and never simply just perish or adapt to their post-flood lands? They instinctively know to go back to Africa, Asia, North America, South America, the Artic, etc?

I don't watch video's in a text forum. It's too hard to check the research
without proper citations.

I only answered your actual questions below.
"Another thing, how did 8 people manage to feed one million plus or even hundreds of thousands of animals over the course of a year, some animals require hundreds of pounds of nutrition everyday.How could largest zoo the world has ever seen, set in a giant ship floating on a flooded earth, be maintained by a miniscule staff of eight? Image the work that would be required daily? Would they need to work 16 hour shifts... 20 hour shifts daily? They would be dead on their feet every day."

I don't know any details on migration patterns. That's all just imagined history stories.
Much like Sherman & Peabody's Wayback Machine. You can never know what really happened.


Unless you are Mr. Peabody.

 

[random person]

I don't watch video's in a text forum. It's too hard to check the research
without proper citations.

I only answered your actual questions below.
"Another thing, how did 8 people manage to feed one million plus or even hundreds of thousands of animals over the course of a year, some animals require hundreds of pounds of nutrition everyday.How could largest zoo the world has ever seen, set in a giant ship floating on a flooded earth, be maintained by a miniscule staff of eight? Image the work that would be required daily? Would they need to work 16 hour shifts... 20 hour shifts daily? They would be dead on their feet every day."

I don't know any details on migration patterns. That's all just imagined history stories.
Much like Sherman & Peabody's Wayback Machine. You can never know what really happened.

So the pairs of animals survived all manner of climates and terrain marching to ark and then a year later marched through all manner of climate and terrain back to their original habitats?

What about incredibly slow animals like sloths, turtles, tortoises, anacondas, hopping toads, hopping frogs, walruses, seals, koalas, waddling penguins, etc, etc?

They would have had to cross oceans, seas, over mountains, through valleys, woods, open plains, etc?

So tropical species could survive journeys through tundras and deserts?

Desert species could survive journeys through tropics and swamps?

Tundra species could survive journeys through deserts and tropics?

Coastal species could survive through deserts and tropics?

 

[SkyWriting]

So the pairs of animals survived all manner of climates and terrain marching to ark and then a year later marched through all manner of climate and terrain back to their original habitats?

The original habitats would be pretty much gone.
Whatever method God used to bring them to the Ark
He could use the same influence to return them.

You seem to be arguing for natural explanations
for a supernatural event.

I am presuming that the Flood was not a natural
event, so readers are not limited to natural explanations.

 

[random person]

The original habitats would be pretty much gone.
Whatever method God used to bring them to the Ark
He could use the same influence to return them.

You seem to be arguing for natural explanations
for a supernatural event.

I am presuming that the Flood was not a natural
event, so readers are not limited to natural explanations.

What they were teleported? Translated? Over thousands or tens of thousands of miles over the earth depending where Noah was residing in correlation to the rest of the world. Animals are climate specific and won't acclimate to other climates especially extreme climates they will die. So a sloth or an anaconda crept and slithered for well over 10,000 miles, and this is just an estimate only linear travel not traveling up South America, North America over into Asia to the Middle East? What about slugs and snails?

That's creation science for you, reject real science and insert one's own science.

If you don't want to view this video on this forum, then copy the URL, and past it in the search box on youtube. You can watch it there.

I challenge you to watch this video, it is only 8 minutes long. What is 8 minutes of your life?

It uses true math to determine how much water and inches of rainfall would be required to cover the highest mountain, how much space the ark would have afforded 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 animals not including Noah and family and food storage, how many the animals per second would be required to load 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 animals IN A SINGLE DAY. How fast the pairs would have to have been moving.

Please remember the text says everything was loaded upon the ark in a single day. GENESIS 7:13-14.

What are you scared of?

 

[SkyWriting]

What they were teleported? Translated? Over thousands or tens of thousands of miles over the earth depending where Noah was residing in correlation to the rest of the world. Animals are climate specific and won't acclimate to other climates especially extreme climates they will die. So a sloth or an anaconda crept and slithered for well over 10,000 miles, and this is just an estimate only linear travel not traveling up South America, North America over into Asia to the Middle East? What about slugs and snails?

All past events are outside the ability of science to recreate and test.
You just gave a couple of Super-natural explanations that would be
untestable like teleportation and such.

If you were really seeking a possible "natural" explanation, you would
come up with your own "natural" ideas:

Floating islands can carry small animals hundreds of kilometers to new homes on islands. Snakes, turtles, insects, and rodents find shelter in tree branches or among plant leaves. Some of the best travelers are lizards, which can survive a long time with little freshwater..

• Floating Islands: An Activity Book - Google Books Result
  https://books.google.com/books?id=eUEzBgAAQBAJ
  Richard Heggen - 2015 - ‎Science
  "A Weird Floating Island," Washington Post, October 4, 1925, Lastly, to go into ... islands, and thus transport not only many small forms but a few large animals.

• island - National Geographic Education
  education.nationalgeographic.com/.../island/National Geographic Society
  Other creatures may ride to islands on floating masses of plants, branches, and soil, sometimes with trees still standing on them. These land rafts are called floating islands. Floating islands are usually torn from coasts and swept away during storms, volcano eruptions, earthquakes, and floods.
  
  Floating islands can carry small animals hundreds of kilometers to new homes on islands. Snakes, turtles, insects, and rodents find shelter in tree branches or among plant leaves. Some of the best travelers are lizards, which can survive a long time with little freshwater..

• Biological Globalisation: Bio-invasions and Their Impacts ...
  https://books.google.com/books?isbn=9050112439
  Wouter van der Weijden, ‎R. J. Leewis, ‎Pieter Bol - 2007 - ‎Science
  animals. and. microbes. naturally. cross. barriers. Means of transport as a ... cancarry along icebergs, floating islands and trees for thousands of kilometres.

 

[SkyWriting]

It uses true math to determine how much water and inches of rainfall would be required to cover the highest mountain

We don't know the height of the mountain mentioned or the date.
Science can't know past events.

For example, if the highest mountain at that time, was only 1/4 as tall, then the amount of water needed would be equal to the amount we currently have. Similarly, if the oceans were not as deep at that time, then the volume of water needed would be less.

 

[SkyWriting]

Please remember the text says everything was loaded upon the ark in a single day.

I did not remember they loaded in one day. That helps explain things.
We could make a guess how many animals could be loaded in one day.
We can then guess that this is the approx number of animals on
the Ark in total.

Turtles stop breathing when they hibernate. This would cut down the
amount of food needed to perhaps a few days of food before all the animals
fell asleep.

The video uses "species", a very modern designation, but the Bible describes "Kinds"
which means "the parents of", not species. And I don't think he subtracted insects.

So the whole video makes it's stand on erroneous assumptions.
I challenge the cartoon head on it's failure to follow the data
as given and changing the terms and conditions to modern
references instead of the given ones. Rotten Poor Science
dripping with Bias against the data as given.

 

[Open Heart]

Unless you are one of those creationists who says that the marsupials got to Australia by being blasted there by volcanoes........ etc.

You're kidding me... LOL

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Then why are Creationists challenging science and attempting to make a rocket science out of their theology?

Most creationists only have a rudimentary understanding of science and what the bible states. They are outnumbered and bombarded, so in their panic they simply come up with whatever they can to uphold the accounts of creation and the flood.
Because of this, they are often proved wrong on those points.

But some creationists have made incredible points and faults of evolution and the idea that the world is billions of years old. But when you have a million people masquerading presupposition as fact, you have nothing more substantial on that side of the argument as one does on the side of the most uneducated creationists.

You have two big masses of ignorance shouting back at one another. And the only reason there are so many Christians today who do not hold to a global flood are uphold evolution is because of one of two things- because their political party tell them to do so, or because the Catholic Church tells them to do so.
It's that simple. Nobody's sitting here thoroughly holding to a secular notion and yet equally succumbing to an Abrahamic one. From this subject all the way to homosexuality, this is the façade that is plaguing the belief in God. People are quite frankly being robbed of their common sense.

 

[random person]

I have one request for all my brothers and sisters in Christ please watch this Noah's Ark Debunked. Can we put the embarassment of a literal global flood behind us, it is obvious Noah's flood was a local event.

It is only 14 minutes long! Please!

 

[random person]

The Ark compared to a football field, mind you not a football stadium.

The ark compared to a soccer field, mind you not soccer stadium.

 

[random person]

To give you a sense of scale, it doesn't take many fans to crowd the field, and now imagine every species of animals to ever lived both living and extinct housed simultaneously on a floating boat which also happens to be the greatest and largest zoo the world has ever witnessed (some believed it carried all dinosaurs too).

 

[Colter]

Most creationists only have a rudimentary understanding of science and what the bible states. They are outnumbered and bombarded, so in their panic they simply come up with whatever they can to uphold the accounts of creation and the flood.
Because of this, they are often proved wrong on those points.

But some creationists have made incredible points and faults of evolution and the idea that the world is billions of years old. But when you have a million people masquerading presupposition as fact, you have nothing more substantial on that side of the argument as one does on the side of the most uneducated creationists.

You have two big masses of ignorance shouting back at one another. And the only reason there are so many Christians today who do not hold to a global flood are uphold evolution is because of one of two things- because their political party tell them to do so, or because the Catholic Church tells them to do so.
It's that simple. Nobody's sitting here thoroughly holding to a secular notion and yet equally succumbing to an Abrahamic one. From this subject all the way to homosexuality, this is the façade that is plaguing the belief in God. People are quite frankly being robbed of their common sense.

The Hebrew authors in Babylon were attempting to trace their blood lines back to presumably the first pair on earth relying on the fragments of the ancient story of Adam and Eve. Having developed an exagerated sense of their own importance as a people, it was vital for them to establish a bloodline back to Adam as the backdrop of their national history, their revised national history. Unable to trace their lines back, they decided to use a well known, local flood legend of Noah the wine maker whose wisdom about the periodic floods of Mesipotamia inspired him to build his home in a house-boat fashion, bringing in his animals each night as a precaution. Well, he was right, the natural floods came, he, his family and his live stock survived while the rest of the village did not. The flood is about genealogy, not about the Infinate God regretting something he had done.

It's fair to say that people don't believe the flood story because it sounds true like the sermon on the mount sounds "true", rather it's because it's in the bible that people are shamed and manipulated into believing and absurdity because the church redirects the faith in God part of mans brain into faith in the books they wrote wherin the institution derives its controlling authority.

 

[gluadys]

But some creationists have made incredible points and faults of evolution and the idea that the world is billions of years old. But when you have a million people masquerading presupposition as fact, you have nothing more substantial on that side of the argument as one does on the side of the most uneducated creationists.

I would like to see some substantial evidence that the age of the earth established by geologists and physicists was presupposed prior to the evidence being known.

What you are calling presuppositions are actually conclusions inferred from evidence.

 

[random person]

Look at this picture, are you telling me every species of cervid species in the family include the white-tailed deer, mule deer (such as the black-tailed deer), elk, moose, red deer, reindeer (caribou), fallow deer, roe deer, pudú and chital.

Every species of bovid which are the biological family of cloven-hoofed, ruminant mammals that includes bison, African buffalo, water buffalo, antelopes, gazelles, sheep, goats, muskoxen, and domestic cattle. A member of this family is called a bovid. Consisting of 143 extant species and 300 known extinct species.

Every species of tylopoda which has only one extant family, Camelidae, which includes camels, llamas, guanacos, alpacas and vicuñas. This group was much more diverse in the past, containing a number of extinct families in addition to the ancestors of living camelids (see below).

Now a soccer field is 130 yards long and 60 yards wide.

The ark was 150 yards long and 25 yards wide.

The say the ark had three levels, each floor would have had 15 feet headspace.

So the entire floor space of all three levels is alittle larger than a professional soccer field. Perhaps equal to a soccer field with all its sidelines boundaries included.

Is it enough to support all these cloven hoove grazers, etc. and carry enough food to supply them for a year, and provide working walking aisles between pens to exercise to move animals to move food supplies, and provide our 8 zookeepers living quarters and their own food supplies, and yet we ain't even touching birds, reptiles, other mammal species. (including carnivores), insects, etc.

But wait there are folks like AIG also stating every species of dinosaurs was also housed on the ark.

Please remember this while watching a professional soccer game, there is your three tiered ark too.

 

[random person]

Another thing creationists have to explain:

The whole ark would have been constructed out of stone tools and the whole ship would not have had any iron or steel support.

My personal advice to creationists, do not deprive your children of a higher education and raise them anti-science, God could have gifted you with a rocket scientist or the curer of cancer.

Just my .02 worth.