Does satan exist?

[juvenissun]

First you need to know "who" and "what" an "angel" is before you are qualified to diagnose a "problem". Get a Strong's concordance... ready? look up the word "messengers" for instance in say, how about...

(Luk 7:24) messengers G32

(Luk 9:52) messengers G32

Then look up "angels" in, how about...

(Mat 24:31) angels G32

(Luk 15:10) angelsG 32

Do you recognize that the exact same word is translated both "messengers" as well as "angels"?

I won't include anything more in today's "angels 101" class. And you must be able to withstand a lot of forehead slapping and praising God when it begins to sink in

Those messengers are not human.
The duty of an angel is more than just a messenger. The Bible is more than a dictionary.

 

[zippy2006]

is satan an actual entity or is satan an allegory for all evil?

Of course Satan exists. You can't deny Satan without denying scripture.

 

[zippy2006]

But I assume you can understand where Christians who see references to demons and angels as poetic representations of the hearts of mankind are coming from?

They come from the modern world that denies the existence of supernatural realities on principle. It is unclear how their belief could flow from Christianity or from scripture.

Are you of the mind that a Christian could hold to the inerrancy of scripture and yet deny Satan's existence (or, even better, the existence of demons in general)? I am doubtful that many, after reviewing the scriptural evidence, would draw the "poetic representation" conclusion. Rather, they would pull the historical progress card, claiming that we know better than they did back then, we are less superstitious, we understand the scientific causes of what was thought to be possession, etc.

 

[BabylonWeary]

is satan an actual entity or is satan an allegory for all evil?

Satan is the adversary of humanity. Historically, any belief that rivals the authority of the church is deemed "Satan", but in so doing the church does the will of Satan inadvertently. It's a complicated issue and the idea that good vs. evil as a duality equating to God vs. Satan is really a polytheistic belief in at least two gods as co-creators, a misrepresentation of the fact that the LORD gives and the LORD takes away. Satan does not seek to replace God, but to tempt human beings into destroying ourselves by turning away from God. In that, Satan can take on many different forms, whether as an angel of darkness or an angel of light, whether as a human or an animal, but the shape-shifter will revert to a serpentine form or behavior under scrutiny. It's important to remember that all spirits are one with the great and Holy Spirit, so it's humanity's falling away from God that invites the devil in. It's a very chicken/egg paradox in that, does Satan appear because we sin or do we sin because Satan tempts us? That's the nature of free will, though. Without the knowledge of good and evil it's impossible to know if we're being tempted at all. Satan is the master of the lose/lose situation, so if there's ever any contentions between people and neither side of the debate is offering truth, or that both sides are leading towards further conflict, then you can be sure that Satan is lurking about in there. Well, that's what I believe, so if I'm mistaken, let the truth prevail.

 

[Chriliman]

Evil exist because of separation and our attachments to mental concepts. Take human beings out of the picture and suddenly evil no longer exists.

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This is actually what God is working on doing. There will be no humans in the new Jerusalem, we will be made one with God.

 

[Chriliman]

What will we be if not human?

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New creations. Spiritual beings.

Luke 24:39
"See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

Philippians 3:20–21
"But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself."

1 Corinthians 15:52
"in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed."

Matthew 22:30
"For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven"

 

[juvenissun]

not sure if Quoting a story from 1,000s of years ago is a good example of why satan has a function today.

Given all the evil v good in the last 5,000 years. Who comes out on top? Include in those lists evil done by people representing god here on Earth?

I would put satan as the more powerful. When in truth he'd a fictional character used to identify the evil in our make up. We all want to better our lives, some will do it be any means possible. And using people's vulnerability to want to believe in something. gives the evil people a perfect tool. From the wars between Christians, to the one today between Muslims and the one between Jews and Muslims.

We need to follow the teaching of Christ, love thy neighbour, forgiveness, compassion, do unto others, etc.

Not find a fictional character to make an excuse for evil. The true character is human beings, and even animals, with some wanting to be top of the pile and ready to kill to get there.

Atheists (including humanists) do not recognize God. Of course they do not recognize satan, angel, either.
But, in that case, the origin or evil is also an unanswerable question.

People KNEW that religion is the only way to answer the question of evil. That is why nearly all religions are dealing with the problem of evil.

For you, an humanist, there is probably no such thing as evil.
Close your eyes. It does not exist. That is fine.

 

[Pink Spider]

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[Chriliman]

We aren't spiritual beings now?...in a physical body?

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Yes we are spiritual beings, but I think its the physical body that makes us human. The physical as we know it is going to be destroyed and replaced with a new creation.

 

[KWCrazy]

Of course Satan is real. He was an archangel who rebelled against God and was cast out of Heaven, taking 1/3rd of the angels with him. He became the symbol for evil and rebellion. It was man who drew the pointed red tail and trident. The real Satan is scarier than that. He will have an enormous amount of power until he is finally bound and cast into the lake of fire. Make no mistake, Satan's rebellion against God has had and will have serious consequences.

The Bible states that there are legions of angels. If Satan took 1/3rd of them, then he has legions of demons as well. It was Satan personally who tempted Christ and tried to corrupt Job. I think it was Satan personally who told the Koran to Mohammed and started the false religion of Islam. That came subsequent to the writing of the Scriptures, so we don't know for certain.

 

[Hawkins]

It is a physical entity. It's reckoned as a physical entity starting from the Jewish tradition.

Archangel Michael ever had a dispute with him over Moses' body.

Jude 1:9 (NIV)
But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”

 

[Winepress777]

Those messengers are not human.
The duty of an angel is more than just a messenger.

You get another "F" for the day.

 

[Neogaia777]

The theory of "No Satan" is a very provocative one, a lot of rock musicians think that Jesus Christ is Satan (formerly Lucifer), and that Jesus Christ was proud, like Satan, that when he was born to us that that was Satan falling to the earth to experience life as a human being, so he could be humbled and better relate to us and have compassion upon us humans... That he didn't give up in making his throne and position equal with God, his Father, just like Satan said he would... In Ezekiel, it's hard when studying Jesus and Satan how much they seem to resemblance each other, that it does make you wonder, if Satan isn't a cover all these years, and there's really only one only begotten Son-of-God, and that he made man fall, but sought to change his name and his ways to Jesus when he was born among us, That he was separated from the Father the whole time up until the point he died and the Father resurrected him, and the Bible is a tale of the ultimate tale of redemption...

I posted this in another forum:

Modern Rock artists, that I like, tend to be believers (I think) BUT, but... These artists believe in a "different Jesus" than the one known by most Christians...

They believe that Jesus is a/the one and only "fallen angel", that he "fell" down to earth to us, to come down to be born as a human being...

They either think Jesus IS Satan, or that there was/is no Satan (besides Jesus) and that Jesus is the one and only "Son of God" that "fell" down to earth to us, that he was separated from God, when he came down to be born as a human and lived his life trying to mend that union for both him and us, like the song says, "I know the feeling of being damned alone"

God Bless!

 

[FutureAndAHope]

The bible is very clear from start to finish that there are angelic beings, some of which have rebelled against God. In Job, Satan came to God, and spoke with Him, asking God to test Job, to put sickness on him, and destroy his family. In the New Testament Satan is spoken of as a real being. Jesus went around casting out demons, he even said when a devil leaves a person it does XZY. Revelation the last book of the bible speaks of Satan and his angels, and their ultimate doom in hell. Every where the bible says Satan is a real being.

Here are some examples, but there are 100s more showing Satan is considered in the bible as a real entity not an idea or thought:

THE DEVIL SPOKE TO GOD, CAME TO GOD, IS NOT AN IDEA

Job 1:6-9 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

JESUS SAID THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS WOULD BE SENT TO HELL

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

DURING HEALING JESUS CAST OUT DEVILS

Mar 7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.

Luk 4:35 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and come out of him. And when the devil had thrown him in the midst, he came out of him, and hurt him not.

Luk 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

JESUS SPOKE OF THE DEVIL DECEIVING PEOPLE

Luk 8:12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

JESUS WAS TEMPTED BY THE DEVIL AND TOLD HIM TO LEAVE

Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

JESUS SAID THE DEVIL WISHED TO SIFT PETER

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

THE APOSTLES REFERRED TO THE DEVIL

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

AGAIN JOHN IN REVELATION MENTIONS THE DEVIL AS REAL

Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

They either think Jesus IS Satan, or that there was/is no Satan (besides Jesus) and that Jesus is the one and only "Son of God" that "fell" down to earth to us, that he was separated from God, when he came down to be born as a human and lived his life trying to mend that union for both him and us, like the song says, "I know the feeling of being damned alone"

This is a odd idea, but it certainly has no backing from scripture. How could Jesus talk to Satan, and cast out his demons if he was Satan. It really is a weird idea ... laughable really considering Jesus was Himself God. The very beauty of the cross is that our own creator, died for us, not some angel.

 

[Aidan K]

Of course Satan is real. He was an archangel who rebelled against God and was cast out of Heaven, taking 1/3rd of the angels with him. He became the symbol for evil and rebellion. It was man who drew the pointed red tail and trident. The real Satan is scarier than that. He will have an enormous amount of power until he is finally bound and cast into the lake of fire. Make no mistake, Satan's rebellion against God has had and will have serious consequences.

The Bible states that there are legions of angels. If Satan took 1/3rd of them, then he has legions of demons as well. It was Satan personally who tempted Christ and tried to corrupt Job. I think it was Satan personally who told the Koran to Mohammed and started the false religion of Islam. That came subsequent to the writing of the Scriptures, so we don't know for certain.

This post is extremely offensive , not only to millions of Muslims but also millions of Jews, Christians, Baha'is et al who recognise the Quran as a holy book which is of God

 

[oi_antz]

This post is extremely offensive , not only to millions of Muslims but also millions of Jews, Christians, Baha'is et al who recognise the Quran as a holy book which is of God

Which Christians do you suppose recognise the Quran as a holy book of God? Can you please name a few? Thank you.

Edit: Jews too, thanks.

 

[Neogaia777]

The theory of "No Satan" is a very provocative one, a lot of rock musicians think that Jesus Christ is Satan (formerly Lucifer), and that Jesus Christ was proud, like Satan, that when he was born to us that that was Satan falling to the earth to experience life as a human being, so he could be humbled and better relate to us and have compassion upon us humans... That he didn't give up in making his throne and position equal with God, his Father, just like Satan said he would... In Ezekiel, it's hard when studying Jesus and Satan how much they seem to resemblance each other, that it does make you wonder, if Satan isn't a cover all these years, and there's really only one only begotten Son-of-God, and that he made man fall, but sought to change his name and his ways to Jesus when he was born among us, That he was separated from the Father the whole time up until the point he died and the Father resurrected him, and the Bible is a tale of the ultimate tale of redemption...

I posted this in another forum:

Modern Rock artists, that I like, tend to be believers (I think) BUT, but... These artists believe in a "different Jesus" than the one known by most Christians...

They believe that Jesus is a/the one and only "fallen angel", that he "fell" down to earth to us, to come down to be born as a human being...

They either think Jesus IS Satan, or that there was/is no Satan (besides Jesus) and that Jesus is the one and only "Son of God" that "fell" down to earth to us, that he was separated from God, when he came down to be born as a human and lived his life trying to mend that union for both him and us, like the song says, "I know the feeling of being damned alone"

God Bless!

Songs like these:

 

[aiki]

is satan an actual entity or is satan an allegory for all evil?

Yes, he exists. He is not a metaphor for our own evil impulses, or representative of all ills that befall humanity. That's not the way he is described in Scripture. Instead, we read these things concerning the devil:

1 Peter 5:8-9
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.
9 Resist him, steadfast in the faith...

John 8:44
44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.

Ephesians 6:11-12
11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Matthew 4:1-3
1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry.
3 Now when the tempter came to Him....

Anyone who reads these verses - and the many others like them which speak of the devil as a literal, actual being - in a figurative way is not handling them honestly.

Blind post so forgive me if I'm doubling up on what has already been said.

Selah.

 

[ViaCrucis]

According to Scripture and thousands of years of received teaching a creature called "Satan" or "the devil" is an actual creature. But said creature is not the origin or source of evil in the world; the devil is understood to be an angel that rebelled against God. As such the devil is, like human beings, a fallen creature.

Historic, orthodox Christianity rejects cosmic dualism: the belief that there are equal and opposite powers, i.e. Good and Evil. Christianity instead argues that there is one supreme power, and that is God, God is all-good; evil is not the opposite of good, but the deprivation of good. The devil is not God's opposite, he is not a kind of anti-god or some sort; but a mere creature.

Human evil exists because human beings are fallen; the devil is not the source of human evil, nor does the devil make anyone do anything. The devil is not all powerful, indeed from the historic position of Christianity the devil is defeated and captive, having been conquered by Jesus by His resurrection from the dead. His "power" such that it is, is limited and small.

There is an idea today that the devil is some sort of cosmic, god-like being that is waging a cosmically grand scale war against God. That's simply not the case. There's no contest here, God is God. This modern idea tends toward dualistic views of good and evil which, historically, are regarded as heretical, being effectively Gnostic/Manichean in tone. Evil, as noted already, is not (as understood by Christianity) the equal and opposite of good; but the deprivation or the perversion of good. The analogy is usually between light and dark; dark is not a "thing" with real existence but the deprivation or the absence of light. Evil "exists" only insofar as it represents emptiness, absence, and lack. All rational creatures are capable of depriving themselves of the good, and thus engage in that which we would call evil. In Christian theology, then, the devils (including "the devil") are such creatures in the same way that human beings quite often can be such creatures.

-CryptoLutheran