Dobri Dobrev and Other Peasants

[tapi]

I've quietly watched people get shamed on here because of their views. Heck, Tapi can't even credit anyone who questions the modern manifestation of the church with having their own thoughts. You were very quick to remind me to not question technology. If one questions the vaccine... Heers follower! If someone questions lock downs and forced limitations to the Divine Services... Conspiracy Theorist and Covid Spreader! Oh, and if you take any of those positions and you're ROCOR then you better just not speak at all.

Even 99% ROCOR clergy do not go as far as you have. It's only Heers and a handful of other clergy + some laymen from around the globe. It's very much a minority position. You should give more consideration to the possibility you are in error yourself, instead being so fast to make great accusations on others.

 

[Hermit76]

Well, I clearly stated that in my personal (and quite possible erroneous) analysis there would be, again, a theoretical possibility of such a thing happening. I took that to imply I consider it unlikely, and made it clear that the only possible way for any such thing to happen is under the guidance of the Holy Spirit through a legitimate Ecumenical Council.

You can disagree with my view, but I leave all the fail safes in place and in no way claim that any such action be taken. In fact, I do not even wish it, as it is completely up to God who He wants to serve Him. I just do not see a complete objection in the scriptures and tradition. Just my personal take based on my own conscience having read the Scriptures, Fathers and modern theologians.

Let me be clear. Without even considering who am I am or giving me the respect of a direct acknowledgement you began your initial post on here blaming my position on the influence of rogue priests.
That is a very condescending assumption for you to make. I poorly tried to ask you who we are to blame for your erroneous beliefs since you obviously don't think anyone who is anti-vaccine, anti-modernity, or anti-lockdown can think for themselves.

 

[Hermit76]

Even 99% ROCOR clergy do not go as far as you have. It's only Heers and a handful of other clergy + some laymen from around the globe. It's very much a minority position. You should give more consideration to the possibility you are in error yourself, instead of making great accusations on others, even as I do with *my* personal views.

Please educate me on ROCOR since I was only communing in one today... Seriously, get your detail brush out and stop making such broad strokes in your claims,

 

[tapi]

Let me be clear. Without even considering who am I am or giving me the respect of a direct acknowledgement you began your initial post on here blaming my position on the influence of rogue priests.
That is a very condescending assumption for you to make. I poorly tried to ask you who we are to blame for your erroneous beliefs since you obviously don't think anyone who is anti-vaccine, anti-modernity, or anti-lockdown can think for themselves.

My apologies. Your views aligned so well with the thoughts of some other individuals that I made an erroneous assumption.

 

[tapi]

Please educate me on ROCOR since I was only communing in one today... Seriously, get your detail brush out and stop making such broad strokes in your claims,

Well, I too know ROCOR clergy and very few of them see Bill Gates as the mastermind of this thing, yadda yadda. Of course there are *some*, but even there, its very much a minority theory (Thank God for that)

 

[Hermit76]

My apologies. Your views aligned so well with the thoughts of some other individuals that I made an erroneous assumption.

What specific thoughts are you even referring to?

I have made the assertion that the tech of modernity is mostly a curse and we should probably move away from it the more we grow in Christ.

I am anti-vaccine because I believe it is being rushed out of a seemingly manipulated fear.
I don't think we should shut down Divine Services. I think if you're sick do what we have always done... Stay home
I think that the results of most Covid tests are falsified
I think there is a Covid virus and in circumstances it can make you really sick
I believe the same about the flu, pneumonia, and almost any other contagion

If Father Heers believes this then we agree... Also, don't think just because you read a crafted letter from ROCOR that you know how 99% feel.

 

[Hermit76]

Well, I too know ROCOR clergy and very few of them see Bill Gates as the mastermind of this thing, yadda yadda. Of course there are *some*, but even there, its very much a minority theory (Thank God for that)

I never said Bill Gates was the mastermind. I think he's evil. I don't trust him. Heck, I take that from his dealings with vaccines in the African subcontinent

 

[tapi]

What specific thoughts are you even referring to?

I have made the assertion that the tech of modernity is mostly a curse and we should probably move away from it the more we grow in Christ.

I am anti-vaccine because I believe it is being rushed out of a seemingly manipulated fear.
I don't think we should shut down Divine Services. I think if you're sick do what we have always done... Stay home
I think that the results of most Covid tests are falsified
I think there is a Covid virus and in circumstances it can make you really sick
I believe the same about the flu, pneumonia, and almost any other contagion

If Father Heers believes this then we agree... Also, don't think just because you read a crafted letter from ROCOR that you know how 99% feel.

That would pretty much cover what I had in mind:
-Anti-Vaxx
-Anti-Mask
-Anti-Social Distancing
-Untenable theories about medical conspiracies spanning the whole world
-Downplaying the gravity of the situation and a seeming inability to understand the main issue, the spread, thus dismissing the cure (social contact limitations)
-Charging jurisdictions, bishops and clergy with mass apostasy
-"Bill Gates"-theories

 

[Hermit76]

That would pretty much cover what I had in mind:
-Anti-Vaxx
-Anti-Mask
-Anti-Social Distancing
-Untenable theories about medical conspiracies spanning the whole world
-Downplaying the gravity of the situation and a seeming inability to understand the main issue, the spread, thus dismissing the cure (social contact limitations)
-Charging jurisdictions, bishops and clergy with mass apostasy
-"Bill Gates"-theories

You have amazing Reading Comprehension because I didn't write any of that.
"Stay home" - social distancing
Being cautious isn't anti-vaxx... Big pharma killed my mamma. I don't care what you think about my caution.
I'm not anti-mask when there's a reason for a mask.
The things I judge Bill Gates on are reported media stories and facts. I've never liked the guy to be honest.
"Seeming inability to understand..."

Lol, tell me how my dad who had no exposure to anyone positive for the virus had a positive test result when we know that it was exposure to weather that made him sick? Seriously, he was ritualistic with masks, distancing, staying home, etc. However, I was consistently exposed at work and have never got it.

And by the way, limited contacts is not a cure. Lookup the definition

 

[tapi]

Tapi, I have seen you in past threads have actual glee at the deaths of clergy if they died with Covid, and now taking glee at infighting in the church because your 'politic' leaning of scientism as a religious idol 'won'. Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us all, and especially with the death of love between humanity.

Do not bear false witness, I have never done such a thing.

 

[tapi]

You have amazing Reading Comprehension because I didn't write any of that.
"Stay home" - social distancing
Being cautious isn't anti-vaxx... Big pharma killed my mamma. I don't care what you think about my caution.
I'm not anti-mask when there's a reason for a mask.
The things I judge Bill Gates on are reported media stories and facts. I've never liked the guy to be honest.
"Seeming inability to understand..."

Lol, tell me how my dad who had no exposure to anyone positive for the virus had a positive test result when we know that it was exposure to weather that made him sick? Seriously, he was ritualistic with masks, distancing, staying home, etc. However, I was consistently exposed at work and have never got it.

And by the way, limited contacts is not a cure. Lookup the definition

Anecdotal evidence is not very convincing. Sorry about your mamma, though. About nitpicking about words, I write fast and English is not my first language. My bad, should have said, 'answer'.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

I’m guessing I missed some context to this since I didn’t see anything with Fr Heers - and I don’t really even know what he promoted.

I have no idea who he is and have never heard of him...

 

[Hermit76]

Anecdotal evidence is not very convincing. Sorry about your mamma, though. About nitpicking about words, I write fast and English is not my first language. My bad, should have said, 'answer'.

Anecdotal evidence? False positives are a fact.

 

[Hermit76]

All this has proven my OP- no one can become a saint in all this bs

 

[prodromos]

I didn't know where else to post this so I thought it may as well go here.
I just learned that in the Church of Panagia Phaneromenis in a small village of Managoulis near Nafpaktos in Greece, 40 days after Pascha this year, the crown of thorns which had been placed on the cross on Great Thursday of Holy week brought forth new leaves and flowers.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Ah... Well my son's did. They never responded when he tried to make a reservation despite his consistent attendance when he's on campus. AnOther person I know was ignored although he left a Protestant pastorate to enter Orthodoxy. He is now going nowhere. Over and over and over I hear stories of abandonment by the church because of their adherence to modernity's rules. Yet, priests like yourself just ignore these very real questions in order to justify your support and marriage with modernity.
I've quietly watched people get shamed on here because of their views. Heck, Tapi can't even credit anyone who questions the modern manifestation of the church with having their own thoughts. You were very quick to remind me to not question technology. If one questions the vaccine... Heers follower! If someone questions lock downs and forced limitations to the Divine Services... Conspiracy Theorist and Covid Spreader! Oh, and if you take any of those positions and you're ROCOR then you better just not speak at all.

I don't ignore these questions, I just disagree with your conclusion about them. I have actually had many discussions with the dean of my area as well as my own parish about these questions.

and I didn't say to not question technology, nor did I say not to question the vaccine.

I also know Fr Peter Heers personally, and I am a fan of his.

you are reading stuff into what I am saying, that I am not actually saying, and putting words in my mouth.

 

[Dewi Sant]

.

 

[Hermit76]

why is this thread still open?

Because no rules have been broken and this is still America

 

[Hermit76]

Father Matt... I read some of the info on Elder Ephraim Vatopedi and technology. I don't think he's wrong on it. He had very strong warnings about the use of technology as you grow. My point is that at some point in our walk I believe that the road divides from modernity on the path to theosis. I'm glad tech has helped many of us get to Orthodoxy BUT tech has also been a major player in the attacks on Orthodoxy. What kind of voice would the pro-gay, pro-ecumenical, and pro-revisonists have without tech. Many are coming to Orthodoxy with the idea they can continue their Protestant protests after chrismation. The path to sainthood is not a digital one. That was the point. I struggle with this. I love the internet and that is a problem. At this point it does more harm that good for most of us.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Father Matt... I read some of the info on Elder Ephraim Vatopedi and technology. I don't think he's wrong on it. He had very strong warnings about the use of technology as you grow. My point is that at some point in our walk I believe that the road divides from modernity on the path to theosis. I'm glad tech has helped many of us get to Orthodoxy BUT tech has also been a major player in the attacks on Orthodoxy. What kind of voice would the pro-gay, pro-ecumenical, and pro-revisonists have without tech. Many are coming to Orthodoxy with the idea they can continue their Protestant protests after chrismation. The path to sainthood is not a digital one. That was the point. I struggle with this. I love the internet and that is a problem. At this point it does more harm that good for most of us.

there is no doubt that tech CAN lead to bad place. the question of whether or not it WILL has to do with the individual using the technology.

and while Gerunda rightly has misgivings, he is also using it to meet with folks all over the world.