Do you think the Wise Men were pagan astrologers?

[heron]

I think it's interesting that Islam and Judaism have some of the same roots and stories, and even though the Magi weren't part of Islam, they have related heritage, being in the Persian territory. It could be like showing that God doesn't forget His children. But that is another thread.

 

[Faulty]

I've heard that the Magi may have been influenced by the writings/teachings/prophecies of Daniel.

It makes sense - Daniel was in Babylon and was a man of prominence especially with regard to prophecy.

Some people have suggested that it was Daniel who was given the revelation that Christ would be born under a star and that's how the Magi knew about it.

God had given Daniel a prophecy to the exact day concerning the arrival of the Messiah. Being the chief of the wise men in the Babylonian Empire would have given him the resources needed to enlist a watchful sect of priests. Not only that, being as wealthy as he was, he could have also been the source of funding for the gifts the Magi brought.

 

[KleinerApfel]

The wise men could have been pagan and may have been astrologers. It certainly appears that way to read it, but I don't know as much about the historical and cultural context as some of the posters here so I'd just be guessing.

If they were pagan and/or astrologers, they soon became believers upon finding Christ!

God uses believers and unbelievers to fulfil His plans, but there's more to it than that - He doesn't wait for each of us to get our theology and faith all polished up before He reaches down to save us -

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests."

 

[cyberlizard]

every wish you had a time machine and the ability to speak and understand ancient languages and cultures....

 

[KleinerApfel]

every wish you had a time machine and the ability to speak and understand ancient languages and cultures....

Wow, that'd be fun!

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes I think the Magi were interested in astrology, amongst other things. I think that's why God used a star. They were used to looking at the sky for signs, and so on. So God put a sign in the sky where they would see it. The Jews believed astrology was wrong; they weren't looking at the sky so they missed it. Because these men went to Herod to ask where the Messiah would be born, they had to search their Scriptures to find the answer. That was their sign - I don't know how many realised it though.

Years ago there was a letter in the "Daily Mail" saying that because the wise men were astrologers, this was proof that God approved of horoscopes! I just think it means that God is willing, and able, to use anything, or anyone, to speak and proclaim his word. I wrote and said so, but they didn't publish that letter.

 

[Alpine]

Wow, that'd be fun!

It'd be scary too!

 

[Faulty]

Years ago there was a letter in the "Daily Mail" saying that because the wise men were astrologers, this was proof that God approved of horoscopes! I just think it means that God is willing, and able, to use anything, or anyone, to speak and proclaim his word. I wrote and said so, but they didn't publish that letter.

Did they also declare that barn-delivery is the only divinely approved method of baby birthing? Or did that not meet their aganda of the day?

Personally, I'm more inclined to believe they knew when the baby was coming based on believing the prophecy then trying to read astrology into the equation.

They had the prophecy of when He was coming, from Daniel, but not the where He was coming from Micah (5:2). This is why they asked Herod where the one is who was 'born king'. Herod consulted the priests who told them He was to be born out of Bethlehem.

This incompleteness to me is a reason why I believe they had their origins from Daniel. Otherwise, an astrological sign is just a sign, they had to know more to make anything of it.

 

[cyberlizard]

Yes I think the Magi were interested in astrology, amongst other things. I think that's why God used a star. They were used to looking at the sky for signs, and so on. So God put a sign in the sky where they would see it. The Jews believed astrology was wrong; they weren't looking at the sky so they missed it. Because these men went to Herod to ask where the Messiah would be born, they had to search their Scriptures to find the answer. That was their sign - I don't know how many realised it though.

Years ago there was a letter in the "Daily Mail" saying that because the wise men were astrologers, this was proof that God approved of horoscopes! I just think it means that God is willing, and able, to use anything, or anyone, to speak and proclaim his word. I wrote and said so, but they didn't publish that letter.

I noticed something about astrology in the OT... it is not astrology that God has the problem with, it is the divination of the future... it is the divination that is wrong, not understanding the present through what is presented there in the heavens.


Steve

 

[cyberlizard]

just found this link on the BBC website, they have only just added it to the front page.


Steve

 

[lismore]

The teaching of the Magi being pagan astrologers comes from Freemasonry, which indeed has a branch called 'The Eastern Star'.

 

[NaLuvena]

Do you think the Wise Men were pagan astrologers who followed astrological signs to find the "king of the Jews"?

And, if you do, what does that say about who and what God will use to accomplish His purposes?

~ Hugh D’Mann

Contentment is not found in having what you want, but in wanting what you have​

I have an issue with calling the Magi pagan. Seeing that they were looking for Jesus to worship Him, that would make them believers, just the same as you and I. If they were pagan, then so are we.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Do you think the Wise Men were pagan astrologers who followed astrological signs to find the "king of the Jews"?

Yep .

And, if you do, what does that say about who and what God will use to accomplish His purposes?

It is all His creation . It is all a tool for Him to reach out to humans .

I think that it is great that He would use donkeys and pagans rather than "holy" people to announce things at times .

 

[heron]

I have an issue with calling the Magi pagan. Seeing that they were looking for Jesus to worship Him, that would make them believers, just the same as you and I. If they were pagan, then so are we.

(-:

it is not astrology that God has the problem with, it is the divination of the future.

From what I've heard, there was more overlap then, between studying the stars and deriving meaning from them.

People will try to find the future and advice from all sorts of things -- tea leaves, forked sticks, sand, hand wrinkles, glass spheres, the way the wind is blowing.

Wikipedia on divination: (from Latin divinare "to be inspired by a god"...) the attempt of ascertaining information by interpretation of omens or an alleged supernatural agencyhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divination#cite_note-merriamw-1.

Astronomers might assign shapes to constellations, and talk about patterns. Priests or religious people might delight in finding correlation between God's promises and God's creation. It can easily get carried away when people take the obvious correlation and want to find out more than what God is already giving them.

This curiosity has similarities to the controversy over whether churches should invite prophets in to give popcorn prophetic words: is the heart of the recipient geared toward clarifying what God has already given them, or are they fascinated by having more knowledge, attention, and empowerment.

The sin in astrology has a lot to do with hidden inner motive: Are we dwelling in fear, are we afraid to take responsibility over a situation, are we neglecting to connect with God, are we not content with what He has already told us? Do we wish for something we don't think we deserve, and want to at least hear that Fate thinks we deserve it. Are we feeling too weak or helpless to pursue a goal by ourselves.

These tendencies are inside all of us every day, and we set our minds to turn them toward God, so we rely on Him. But we don't always succeed. Very often we hear a short directive from Him and respond, "That's not enough information. How do I know it's from God. It's not going to work." Then we scramble to correct what God said was already enough. We create comfort zones, padding of more information, clutter that we will later regret.

If we shut off everything related to divination -- stop studying stars, drink only bag tea, not carry sticks in our yards, refuse to spin when dancing -- then we live more primitively than those with superstitions.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7791571.stm

Good article. This was similar to the documentary, so it's nice to have a lot of it at a glance.

This was off to the side...
Star Of Bethlehem is on BBC Two on Wednesday 24 December at 1730 GMT, and BBC HD on 25 December at 1400 GMT. Or catch up later on BBC iPlayer