Do you believe Arminians are saved?

[Monseigneur_Gentilhomme]

Good gravy, you would have to have heard Sproul when he said it. Tongue-in-cheek with a hearty laugh at the punchline.

Mountains. Mole hills. The latter cannot be made into the former.

I get it's a popular RC SProul joke (well known), but at the same time the language of the Reformed theology isn't that of revivalism or fundamentalism of (gettin saved, or decisionalism).

The clear answer answer is that Roman Catholics may be Christians, but the Roman Catholic Church is not a true Church. There may be many in the Roman Catholic hierachy (including the former pope benedict 16) who are regenerate and have been justified and some who even advocate a doctrine of justification which is more like the Book of Concordia than Trent, but they are saved for believing and trusting in Christ alone.

Long story short, there and many that are saved and damned in false churches just as there are many saved and damned in true churches. Though we can expect that overall a false church will produce more non Christians than Christians and a true church will produce more believers.

 

[WisdomTree]

I get it's a popular RC SProul joke (well known), but at the same time the language of the Reformed theology isn't that of revivalism or fundamentalism of (gettin saved, or decisionalism).

The clear answer answer is that Roman Catholics may be Christians, but the Roman Catholic Church is not a true Church. There may be many in the Roman Catholic hierachy (including the former pope benedict 16) who are regenerate and have been justified and some who even advocate a doctrine of justification which is more like the Book of Concordia than Trent, but they are saved for believing and trusting in Christ alone.

Long story short, there and many that are saved and damned in false churches just as there are many saved and damned in true churches. Though we can expect that overall a false church will produce more non Christians than Christians and a true church will produce more believers.

That is such an Eastern Orthodox approach.

 

[AMR]

You can still go on a rant about it considering this is your forum.

Well, as you may know I used to be a Chaplain here with mod responsibilities, and I am fairly certain the rules still applied no matter what the forum. I am open to correction of things have changed in the past year or so, however.

 

[AMR]

That is such an Eastern Orthodox approach.

Why? It is actually the only biblical approach. We do not know who are the elect and who are not. If we did, it would sure make evangelical issues a wee bit more efficient, no?

At best we can only say that there are likely regenerated Christians among many churches, even if those churches preach a false gospel.

I have no problem stating that this or that denomination is apostate, or a cult, but that is a pronunciation on that group's teachings based upon what I or others perceive to be the proper teachings of Holy Writ. Such a statement is not to be taken as a declaration of a particular individual's eternal destiny who may be a member of said church.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Sorry if this is a weird question. Do Calvinists believe that Arminians are saved? I'm trying to figure things out for myself. In the end I want to find what's true, but I want to at least feel that considering a Free Will approach doesn't endanger my salvation.

I grew up with strict Calvinism and the sense that the free will approach is very "wrong."

I am also a Calvinist, and what I understand about Calvin's and Puritan teaching is that a person cannot even understand what the Gospel is about unless the Holy Spirit has given him or her that understanding. Then a person cannot have accepted Christ unless God has given that person "saving grace" in order to be able to accept Christ as Saviour and have the assurance that they are accepted by God and have received the righteousness of Christ.

Therefore, even if a person is Arminian, the very fact that he or she can understand the Gospel and believes that Jesus rose from the dead and is seeking to live a holy life before God, is a strong indication that they are genuinely and fully saved.

A person's head could be a bit screwball as far as their theology is concerned, but God looks on the heart, and if that person has fulfilled the criteria that Peter gave those who asked "how do we be saved?" when he preached to them on the Day of Pentecost, then they and we can be assured that they are truly saved.

There are some within the Presbyterian Church (and, by the way, I am an elder of the PCANZ, even though my CF icon indicates something a little different), who believe that when a person is convicted of sin, they should wait until the Holy Spirit gives them the assurance they are saved. Others believe that they can receive Christ as Saviour and believe that they are saved while they are waiting on God for the assurance. This causes a major division within the Presbyterian Church in the USA in the time of Charles Finney, who identified himself as somewhere in between Calvinism and Arminianism.

John Wesley was a passionate Arminian in his theology, and there is no doubt that he was saved, and also those who accepted Christ under his ministry.

The Scripture "Repent ye therefore and be converted, that your sins be blotted out" seems to support personal choice, otherwise why give that sort of instruction if it were impossible to make the choice?

I think that the "handshaking" of Calvinism and Arminianism involves a person making a decision for Christ only as he is enabled to understand the Gospel by the Holy Spirit, and given the ability in his will to accept Christ.

So, a person may feel that he can make that decision, but I believe that his freedom to make the decision has come from the Holy Spirit in the first place; so that is why I have no problem with an Arminian knowing that he is genuinely saved on an equal basis as the Calvinist.

 

[Monseigneur_Gentilhomme]

That is such an Eastern Orthodox approach.

Hardly.

 

[Monseigneur_Gentilhomme]

There are some within the Presbyterian Church (and, by the way, I am an elder of the PCANZ, even though my CF icon indicates something a little different), who believe that when a person is convicted of sin, they should wait until the Holy Spirit gives them the assurance they are saved. Others believe that they can receive Christ as Saviour and believe that they are saved while they are waiting on God for the assurance. This causes a major division within the Presbyterian Church in the USA in the time of Charles Finney, who identified himself as somewhere in between Calvinism and Arminianism.
.

I think this is a dangerous belief. The Westminster Confession of Faith makes it clear that there are degrees of assurance (objective and subjective) and specifically says that while assurance is the expectation and normative; IT IS NOT OF THE ESSENCE OF SAVING FAITH.
This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties, before he be partaker of it: (1 John 5:13, Isa. 50:10, Mark 9:24, Ps. 88, Ps. 77:1–12) yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto. (1 Cor. 2:12, 1 John 4:13, Heb. 6:11–12, Eph. 3:17) And therefore it is the duty of every one to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure, (2 Pet. 1:10) that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, (Rom. 5:1–2, 5, Rom. 14:17, Rom. 15:13, Eph. 1:3–4, Ps. 4:6–7, Ps. 119:32) the proper fruits of this assurance; so far is it from inclining men to looseness.

True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it, by falling into some special sin which woundeth the conscience and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation, by God’s withdrawing the light of His countenance, and suffering even such as fear Him to walk in darkness and to have no light: (Cant. 5:2, 3, 6, Ps. 51:8, 12, 14, Eph. 4:30, 31, Ps. 77:1–10, Matt. 26:69–72, Ps. 31:22, Ps. 88, Isa. 50:10) yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart, and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived; (1 John 3:9, Luke 22:32, Job 13:15, Ps. 73:15, Ps. 51:8, 12, Isa. 50:10) and be the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair. (Micah 7:7–9, Jer. 32:40, Isa. 54:7–10, Ps. 22:1, Ps. 88)

The Westminster Confession of Faith (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1996).

 

[RoxyB]

Praise God alone that it is He who only truly knows who is saved and who is not. We need to keep our eyes on our own response to God and trust in that if we truly seek God in all of our ways those who are lost will respond to the call through our own faith as an example. How can anyone narrow down who is saved or who is not when only God knows this because He is the one who takes pleasure in whom he chooses?

 

[trulyconverted]

Praise God alone that it is He who only truly knows who is saved and who is not. We need to keep our eyes on our own response to God and trust in that if we truly seek God in all of our ways those who are lost will respond to the call through our own faith as an example. How can anyone narrow down who is saved or who is not when only God knows this because He is the one who takes pleasure in whom he chooses?

God alone knows who will be saved. But the Spirit will be a presence that a true born again Christian, who has been converted by God, can not miss.

That is why a tangible evidence cannot be provided because only the saved person can tell if the Holy Spirit dwells in his heart. This fact is not visible to the naked eye, but only the fruits of the Spirit can be observed.

A person who belong from any group, Catholic or Christian or Muslim or Atheist etc, can be saved by God according to His grace and mercy.

A person who has the Holy Spirit of God indwelling in them is saved, it does not matter to which group they belong at the moment, or even if they don't belong to any denomination.

A person who does not have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them is not saved, but it may also mean that they are part of the elect but it is just not God's appointed time for them to be saved just yet. As long as we are alive there is hope. And it does not matter if they go to church always, or belong to christian groups.

I just realized that I may not be in the right forum, but this is my sharing in this matter. God bless.

 

[artqween]

God alone knows who will be saved. But the Spirit will be a presence that a true born again Christian, who has been converted by God, can not miss.

That is why a tangible evidence cannot be provided because only the saved person can tell if the Holy Spirit dwells in his heart. This fact is not visible to the naked eye, but only the fruits of the Spirit can be observed.

A person who belong from any group, Catholic or Christian or Muslim or Atheist etc, can be saved by God according to His grace and mercy.

A person who has the Holy Spirit of God indwelling in them is saved, it does not matter to which group they belong at the moment, or even if they don't belong to any denomination.

A person who does not have the Holy Spirit indwelling in them is not saved, but it may also mean that they are part of the elect but it is just not God's appointed time for them to be saved just yet. As long as we are alive there is hope. And it does not matter if they go to church always, or belong to christian groups.

I just realized that I may not be in the right forum, but this is my sharing in this matter. God bless.

Thank u for sharing

 

[DocNH]

God saves whom he elected before the foundation of the world, before such titles as Arminianism, etc. God does not save us "depending upon" the extent of our knowledge or our ability to quote and conform to the WCF, etc. Rather he saves whom he will by grace (Eph. 2:8-10).

As far as Catholics see:
Can Catholics be Saved?