Do you accept evolution as a valid scientific theory?

[Dannager]

Definition of a Law:

1. A natural phenomenon that has been proven to occur invariably whenever certain conditions are met. 2. A formal statement describing such a phenomenon and the conditions under which it occurs. Also called law.
college.hmco.com/geology/resources/geologylink/glossary/s.html

Very good, shinbits, you just defined a law! Now for your next assignment, please post the definitions of "theory" and "fact".

Seems like Newton's Lawof Gravity, is in fact, proven.

Newton's law remained the standard theory of gravity until it was replaced by Einstein's theory of gravitation (general relativity) in the early part of the 20th century.

So...if Newton's law is proven, how come it was replaced nearly a century ago?

 

[lismore]

Ladies and gentlemen, that is the oh-so-quiet sound of goalposts being moved.

Goalposts being moved?

You said the modern coelacanth is different from the original.......

So the modern evolved from the fossil one you're saying?

Is the coelacanth not meant to have crawled on land? Why is it in the sea?

Its too dangerously close to the fossil one to be covering so many years.

If we are descended from the coelacanth how come they are living? is it not surivial of the fittest? We are fitter than a fish

 

[Dannager]

If we are descended from the coelacanth how come they are living? is it not surivial of the fittest? We are fitter than a fish

Okay, WOAH. Stop right here. I'm not touching anything else you've said until this is resolved. Do you know what "fit" means, when you talk about evolution? It means the ability to survive to reproduction. We are not necessarily "fitter" than a fish. In fact, it may surprise you that ants are as fit, if not more fit, than humans. There are more ants than us, and they reproduce more abundantly than we do.

 

[shinbits]

Very good, shinbits, you just defined a law! Now for your next assignment, please post the definitions of "theory" and "fact".


So...if Newton's law is proven, how come it was replaced nearly a century ago?

Einstiens was liked better. Newton's Law was never proven wrong, however.

Peace.

 

[Dannager]

Einstiens was liked better. Newton's Law was never proven wrong, however.

Newton's law was proven wrong. At speeds approaching that of light, Newton's formulae no longer were accurate. Since Newton's law claimed that these formulae held true unconditionally, Newton's law was wrong (and was therefore replaced).

 

[lismore]

Okay, WOAH. Stop right here. I'm not touching anything else you've said until this is resolved. Do you know what "fit" means, when you talk about evolution? It means the ability to survive to reproduction. We are not necessarily "fitter" than a fish. In fact, it may surprise you that ants are as fit, if not more fit, than humans. There are more ants than us, and they reproduce more abundantly than we do.

But we can make ant powder

We have what animals will never have, the ability to reason. Because we are made in God's image, we are higher than the beasts of the field.

 

[artybloke]

But we can make ant powder

We have what animals will never have, the ability to reason. Because we are made in God's image, we are higher than the beasts of the field.

But ant powder doesn't kill all ants. Ands those ants that aren't killed by the ant powder may have a mutation that gives them an immunity to ant powder that then gets passed on to the next generation and so on... till all the ants that survive have an immunity to ant powder.

So we, with all our inteligence, can't even develop an ant powder that kills all ants.

You don't need inteligence to survive as a species, just adapatble genes.

Survivability as a species is what evolution is about. Whether we are made in God's image or not isn't a question that science can answer one way or the other; science just deals in what it can observe and leaves the rest to the theologians and philosophers to sort out.

I wish people wouldn't confuse science and theology and expect scientists to do the work of a theologian.

 

[Diane_Windsor]

Yes

 

[The Lady Kate]

If we are descended from the coelacanth how come they are living? is it not surivial of the fittest? We are fitter than a fish

Outside the water, we are more "fit" and a fish... but a fish's environment is in the water, and there, it'll swim circles around us every time.

 

[notto]

You said the modern coelacanth is different from the original.......

Yes, they are different species. You said that we 'needed' coelacanth to be extinct. The species we find in the fossil record is extinct. The currentley living species are different species (and even different families) that the ones we find in the fossil record.

Evolution happens. This is just another fact that shows that.

 

[shinbits]

EDIT:

 

[artybloke]

At speeds approaching that of light

Not just at but near the speed of light. A scientific theory, remember, is an explanation of all available observed facts. It's not an absolute truth. If new evidence is observed that isn't explained by the current theory, the current theory is replaced by a new explanation.

Thus science evolves.

 

[shinbits]

Gravity the fact was "proven".

That's what I meant. I thought the fact and the theory was one and the same.

Well, in any case, as my original point was, gravity---the fact--- is something proven by science.

 

[artybloke]

That's what I meant. I thought the fact and the theory was one and the same.

Well, in any case, as my original point was, gravity---the fact--- is something proven by science.

A theory and a fact are not the same thing; not quite. A fact is something that is observed - such as that something falls to the ground at a particular velocity. That is the fact of gravity.

The theory is the explanation, often in mathematical terms, of why that fact happens.

As Terry Pratchett says, "it's all squantum."

 

[shinbits]

A theory and a fact are not the same thing; not quite. A fact is something that is observed - such as that something falls to the ground at a particular velocity. That is the fact of gravity.

Yes. You're right.

But my original point was, that the fact of gravity's effect on something, is something has been proven by science. It's rock solid.

And there are many things that we can know for sure, as proven, by science.

 

[artybloke]

It's rock solid.

Absolutely. Except there is no absolute guarantee that it will happen again tomorrow. Even if it's 99.999999recurring certain, there is still a smidgeon of doubt. That's why nothing is ever absolutely certain.

Also, of course, our observations could be wrong. Maybe we only think we see things fall to the ground. Again, highly unlikely, very nearly but not totally impossible.

That's why scientists talk of evidence, not proof.

 

[shinbits]

Absolutely. Except there is no absolute guarantee that it will happen again tomorrow. Even if it's 99.999999recurring certain, there is still a smidgeon of doubt. That's why nothing is ever absolutely certain.

Also, of course, our observations could be wrong. Maybe we only think we see things fall to the ground. Again, highly unlikely, very nearly but not totally impossible.

Very good point.

Let me pose a question: Does the nearly 100% percent certainty of things like the fact of gravity, open a door for the belief in ID?

 

[notto]

And there are many things that we can know for sure, as proven, by science.

Like the fact that life in the past was much different than life today. One of the facts that the theory of evolution explains.

 

[shinbits]

Like the fact that life in the past was much different than life today. One of the facts that the theory of evolution explains.

We'd know that, with or without evolution.

 

[notto]

We'd know that, with or without evolution.

Yes, because it is an observation. The theory of evolution is the theory that explains why life in the past was much different than life today.

Theories explain observations and facts. The theory of evolution is the best scientific theory that explains why life in the past was much different than life today and explains the observations and facts of the fossil record and genetics.

Just like theories of gravity explain why we observe the fact that objects are attracted to each other.

I think we are making progress.