Do We Need A Zoe Brotherhood In This Country

[GregConstantine]

I happened upon the Zoe Brotherhood while searching for something else. This was a clergy/lay movement in Greece established in the early 20th century. They are credited with translating the Scriptures into modern Greek (I think the common modern Greek translation used today is from their work), they went around preaching and are generally credited for a revival of sorts of Orthodoxy in Greece.

I think we need something similar in this country. I would love to see a group that went around preaching the Gospel to all Americans, and strenghtening the faith of the Orthodox in this country.

I think with ISIS doing their thing, and secular liberalism taking an even further stronghold in this country, we are headed for what might be a time of persecution. I think it behooves us to at least consider this type of ministry.

 

[gzt]

There were definitely some reasonable criticisms of the movement - in many ways, they were protestantized and anti-patristic. But there are certainly good things about their movement that we could do well to emulate.

I think your latter concerns are a bit overblown.

 

[ArmyMatt]

go for it

 

[GregConstantine]

perhaps, but the way our president is groveling at the feet of the Muslims, who knows?

 

[gzt]

perhaps, but the way our president is groveling at the feet of the Muslims, who knows?

I believe this deserves a "ROFLCOPTER".

 

[Nik0s]

it would be nice, but there simply isn't enough centralization here in the Americas. You would have nasty, sinful fights about who would lead such a mission between the Greeks, Russians etc... Until there is a single American Orthodox Church, such an idea is impractical.

 

[dzheremi]

Hmm. Do you need to establish a brotherhood modeled on something going on in Greece before you do what you need to do? What's to stop you from going out and preaching now? Maybe there's something I don't understand about the way that the EO communion works, but I would think that even if you'd be doing it on another group's territory, the fact that you're doing it would over shut up the whiners from other jurisdictions, no? I mean, we OO do not all have one church in this country (and I don't really see calls for it like I do among the EO, either), but that doesn't stop Coptic Orthodox deacons from hitting the streets in NYC with hymns and faith to share:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mNY845iMw0

Forgive me if I'm speaking out of turn, but this seems like the kind of thing that if you wait until you have your dreamed-for single American church, you'll keep waiting forever and ever and never actually get out there and do it. If you see the need, go do it.

 

[GregConstantine]

sorry to say this, but many of my EO brethern unfortunately are negative nancy naysayers. Lots of excuses are made any time any such endeavor is proposed. We do need a blessing before preaching. You cant just go out and start doing that on a whim.

 

[Nik0s]

For many of the jurisdictions, the Church is sadly run like a business and is seen that way. You unfortunately WOULD see local churches complaining "Hey, why are the Russians here, there's a Greek Church down the street!" or "Those Greeks need to stay away from OUR Parish." You would see them saying go to the GREEK Church, go to the RUSSIAN Church etc, not "your nearest Orthodox parish." There's a lot of ethno-centrism in many Churches as well It really is sad.

 

[dzheremi]

sorry to say this, but many of my EO brethern unfortunately are negative nancy naysayers. Lots of excuses are made any time any such endeavor is proposed. We do need a blessing before preaching. You cant just go out and start doing that on a whim.

Well, I doubt that the Coptic deacons in the video went out and did that on a whim, either, but I see what you are saying, as the same is required if we are to go out and preach publicly (I am sure the deacons in the video were given the blessing to do so). Still...with that given, are these other considerations really enough to stop people? I guess I just have a hard time believing that a Greek Orthodox group would face resistance from other Eastern Orthodox groups because they'd be overstepping canonical boundaries that were set up before America existed as a country, which is what the "we can't do that because we don't have one American Orthodox Church" complaint reads like to me (and also, you do, right? Isn't that why the OCA exists? Okay, nobody go out and do it but the OCA...but then the OCA better get it done! ). Are the canons made for man, or man for the canons?

 

[dzheremi]

For many of the jurisdictions, the Church is sadly run like a business and is seen that way. You unfortunately WOULD see local churches complaining "Hey, why are the Russians here, there's a Greek Church down the street!" or "Those Greeks need to stay away from OUR Parish." You would see them saying go to the GREEK Church, go to the RUSSIAN Church etc, not "your nearest Orthodox parish." There's a lot of ethno-centrism in many Churches as well It really is sad.

Well that is truly a shame, and a reproach to the name of Christ. I'm sorry that you guys deal with this, and if having one church for all the USA is the only answer, then I hope that this will happen for you soon, for the good of your church and for the good of the country, which desperately needs somebody (a lot of somebodies, really) to preach the Christian faith.

 

[Nik0s]

Well that is truly a shame, and a reproach to the name of Christ. I'm sorry that you guys deal with this, and if having one church for all the USA is the only answer, then I hope that this will happen for you soon, for the good of your church and for the good of the country, which desperately needs somebody (a lot of somebodies, really) to preach the Christian faith.

I don't know what the answer is, but something needs to change and that's a fact. It really is depressing, even at Greek festivals which are such a good opportunity to showcase Orthodoxy to the uninitiated the GREEKNESS of everything is emphasized. It's presented as something of a curiosity.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't know what the answer is, but something needs to change and that's a fact. It really is depressing, even at Greek festivals which are such a good opportunity to showcase Orthodoxy to the uninitiated the GREEKNESS of everything is emphasized. It's presented as something of a curiosity.

yeah, I know that is common, but I know of many Antiochian and Greek festivals that I have seen, the priests use the ethnic stuff to hook people into the Church, and they are racking up converts (like the Greek parishes in Nashville and Lancaster). maybe I am just lucky like that.

 

[E.C.]

To echo what I said in a previous thread: this would require the Orthodox in America to embrace the great heresy of the 21st century known as ORGANIZATION.


Or we find someone to volunteer as a fool-for-Christ.

Well, I doubt that the Coptic deacons in the video went out and did that on a whim, either, but I see what you are saying, as the same is required if we are to go out and preach publicly (I am sure the deacons in the video were given the blessing to do so). Still...with that given, are these other considerations really enough to stop people? I guess I just have a hard time believing that a Greek Orthodox group would face resistance from other Eastern Orthodox groups because they'd be overstepping canonical boundaries that were set up before America existed as a country, which is what the "we can't do that because we don't have one American Orthodox Church" complaint reads like to me (and also, you do, right? Isn't that why the OCA exists? Okay, nobody go out and do it but the OCA...but then the OCA better get it done! ). Are the canons made for man, or man for the canons?

Research Balkan history, especially the region of Macedonia and the two Balkan Wars, and you'll see how violent Orthodox nations can be to each other.

 

[Thekla]

For many of the jurisdictions, the Church is sadly run like a business and is seen that way. You unfortunately WOULD see local churches complaining "Hey, why are the Russians here, there's a Greek Church down the street!" or "Those Greeks need to stay away from OUR Parish." You would see them saying go to the GREEK Church, go to the RUSSIAN Church etc, not "your nearest Orthodox parish." There's a lot of ethno-centrism in many Churches as well It really is sad.

I've lived in two areas of the country (the Carolinas and Pa) and have yet to see this phenomenon in Orthodoxy.

 

[gzt]

I never got that in the Greek parish I was a member of. They have also revised their "mission statement" to say nothing about Greek or Greekness, which is a change.

 

[Nik0s]

I never got that in the Greek parish I was a member of. They have also revised their "mission statement" to say nothing about Greek or Greekness, which is a change.

Heh some of the Older women at my parish, the yiayia are confused at why any non-Greek wants to join the Church! Even my own Grandmother has said "oh they're Italian, they're Spanish etc. everyone has their own religion!" And her attitude is not uncommon.

 

[Thekla]

Heh some of the Older women at my parish, the yiayia are confused at why any non-Greek wants to join the Church! Even my own Grandmother has said "oh they're Italian, they're Spanish etc. everyone has their own religion!" And her attitude is not uncommon.

The yiayias who know we converted (many don't speak English much) have been very welcoming - at three parishes now - though sometimes a bit surprised.

As for me, I have no problem with folks wanting to retain their culture - be they Greek, or any of the various American "Indian" nations, or any other ethnoi.

I just thinks folks don't tend to notice their own acculturation/culture - and this includes US Americans. But, as this country is a cultural salad, that's part of our "American Identity".

 

[dzheremi]

Hahaha. Usually among OO it's "Wait...who are you marrying?"

Everybody. Lock up your daughters; I'm marrying all of them.

(Sheesh.)

 

[buzuxi02]

The problem is Orthodoxy in the Americas is less than 1% of the total population.

Orthodox Parents should make clear that their children marry in the Church, not in civil ceremonies or on some beach.

Maybe in mission churches or those parishes with large amounts of converts a food festival can be held on Pascha. It could start off as an Easter feast for the community themselves since their own non-Orthodox family, will not have any family gatherings for them to attend. In order to make the feast days truly memorable. Just thinking of ways we can make the parish truly the center of community life. The 800 pound gorilla is dealing with the secularization of the laity.

In my area I just realized the schools have "winter recess" this week, which is start of ash wednesday. The week of western Easter/Passover they now call it spring break. So what happens? Instead of a fast followed by familial celebrations, they now take a vacation in the Carribean. Some say christians placed Christmas day on Dec 25 to eclipse a popular pagan celebration, regardless that is what the secularists are now doing to us.