Do Orthodox Christians hate Roman Catholicism?

[Joseph Hazen]

Yes, what would an actual Orthodox Christian who is attending Seminary and studying these exact issues, who used to be Roman Catholic, know about the teachings of his own church about Roman Catholicism when compared with that of an Anglican? I should let others speak, even when they're giving false information, to show I know how to be polite *rolleyes*

 

[GreekOrthodox]

The people who know the history of the schism and the differences in our theology, will disagree with each other, but we also understand the nature of the disagreement and respect each other over those differences. That being said, you will find extremists in every organization who will find something to hate someone else, even in the RC and EO.

 

[Cappadocious]

I bow to your greater knowledge of juvenile positions.
Sadly unmatched by knowledge in other areas. Never mind.

Yes, what would an actual Orthodox Christian who is attending Seminary and studying these exact issues, who used to be Roman Catholic, know about the teachings of his own church about Roman Catholicism when compared with that of an Anglican? I should let others speak, even when they're giving false information, to show I know how to be polite *rolleyes*

w1tn3ss 2 th3 w0rld

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I don't see how it's offensive to say that someone is a heretic. It's just a statement as regards that person's position in respect to the sparker's Church. Anybody who thinks everyone is just saying the same thing and we need to ignore differences to be polite…well, that's a very juvenile position, IMO.

Yes, from the Orthodox perspective the Roman Catholics are heretics. It's just a fact. Teachings like Papal authority and infallibility are heretical from the Orthodox perspective. The Immaculate Conception may be as well. There are other teachings too. To say that nobody really understands the difference is rather silly considering brilliant minds on both sides discuss it. Are they just blabbering without understanding what they're saying?

No, Orthodoxy doesn't hate Roman Catholicism, but we do believe she is very mistaken in a lot of different areas.

I bow to your greater knowledge of juvenile positions.



Sadly unmatched by knowledge in other areas. Never mind.

This is Traditional Theology; declarations of heresy and anathemas are part of the historic tradition of our Churches. We are all adults here and we can discuss these things from an historic context.

A few years ago a member of TAW posted a picture of an Icon; on one side were the Saints (many named), on the other side the heretics (named also). There were a goodly number of Catholics named and depicted as was Martin Luther and Henry VIII. We had an interesting discussion and no one took offense.

So here I am, among friends, a Confessional Lutheran; in the eyes of Catholicism and Orthodoxy (many of my friends), a heretical Christian. Likewise, I know what my Churches confessions very clearly about who and what constitutes theological controversies, heresies and heterodoxy.

This forum was created so we could discuss these things because we can't do it anywhere else without causing offense.

History is history, and it makes us who we are. History is like a map. If we don't know where we come from, there is no way we can determine how to get where we want to go.

 

[fhansen]

Officially, at least, the RCC recognizes the EO as true Church, with valid apostolic succession, sacraments, etc. Pope Benedict called the East the "other lung" of the Church. The issue of papal authority is the major stumbling block between the churches by far.

 

[Catherineanne]

This is Traditional Theology; declarations of heresy and anathemas are part of the historic tradition of our Churches. We are all adults here and we can discuss these things from an historic context.

A few years ago a member of TAW posted a picture of an Icon; on one side were the Saints (many named), on the other side the heretics (named also). There were a goodly number of Catholics named and depicted as was Martin Luther and Henry VIII. We had an interesting discussion and no one took offense.

So here I am, among friends, a Confessional Lutheran; in the eyes of Catholicism and Orthodoxy (many of my friends), a heretical Christian. Likewise, I know what my Churches confessions very clearly about who and what constitutes theological controversies, heresies and heterodoxy.

This forum was created so we could discuss these things because we can't do it anywhere else without causing offense.

History is history, and it makes us who we are. History is like a map. If we don't know where we come from, there is no way we can determine how to get where we want to go.

Aiui (and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong), someone who is a member of the Orthodox church may be a heretic in relation to Orthodoxy, but not in relation to Catholicism, and vice versa.

To be a heretic one has to be a full member of a church, and then decide to deliberately and knowingly deny one or more of its teachings. Even when the priest tries to convince such a person of error, they have to choose to remain in their wrong beliefs. Therefore, surely it is a nonsense to use the language of heresy in relation to full members of a different church; people who have never ascribed to a particular set of beliefs in the first place. Whatever the historical positions of those churches a thousand or more years ago, current Roman Catholics are not heretics irt Orthodoxy, nor vice versa. Martin Luther may well have been a heretic; that does not mean that every single modern Lutheran is in the same position.

I am not quite sure how any Christian calls another a heretic and then feels capable of adding, 'No offence'; nor how another can reply, 'None taken.' Surely the term is intended to offend. Therefore it seems to me that such language is really better avoided.

Ymmv.

 

[Shane R]

Officially, at least, the RCC recognizes the EO as true Church, with valid apostolic succession, sacraments, etc. Pope Benedict called the East the "other lung" of the Church. The issue of papal authority is the major stumbling block between the churches by far.

I am part of a military family, so perhaps slightly non-typical in my experience, but I have never been refused communion at a Catholic altar though I have always told the Father saying the Mass I am Orthodox. My point is, you are correct that recognition is rather one-sided in this regard.

 

[Cappadocious]

A heretic can be someone who is a heretic in the strict sense, or a heretic can be someone who holds heretical opinions. Opinions remain heretical regardless of the temporal, personal or generational distance from their creation.

In either case, I'm not offended when I'm called a heretic. If, at the end of the day, you can't be friends with people who consider you a heretic, where's the fun in life?

 

[LJP]

No they don't. First of all, Orthodox did not cause the Great Schism in the first place, the Pope did.
Secondly, Orthodox people never killed Catholic monks for refusing to become Orhtodox, whist it happened the other way round (http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/10/26-martyrs-of-zographou-monastery.html).
Third, current relations between the Orthodox and Catholic parishioners in Europe are very good (possibly the best since the schism). Orthodox parishes in Western Europe have received buildings from abandoned Catholic churches or monasteries. Catholic people come to Orthodox services because they enjoy the music or ambience or read Orthodox books such as ' My life in Christ (http://www.ccel.org/ccel/kronstadt/christlife.i.html).

Those amongst the Orthodox people who are familiar with Orthodox dogmas understand that certain Catholic dogmas are not accepted by the Orthodox church and should make no secret of this. Doctrines like filioque or papal infalibility are considered indeed heretical but this is a matter of doctrine not hating on Catholics. I think that the Orthodox doctrine is correct and there are events that serve as a proof such as the annual recurring miracle of the descent of the Holy Fire in Jerusalem that happens only on Orthodox Easter, the abundance of documented Orthodox 20th century saints and miracle workers like St John of Kronstadt, St Luke of Crimea, Elder Paisios, Elder Porphyrios etc that have no matching Catholic counterparts etc. The difference of experiencing both churches are well described by Klaus Kenneth on Youtube and in his book.

 

[chris.j.b]

yes, orthodox consider RC to be heretical. But it doesn't mean we can't be friends.

Like at our church we (orthodox) have a choir leader who is RC and quite often comes and leads the choir because he is an expert in orthodox music. But he still can't have communion because he is RC. And from orthodox point of view, it's not just schism, it's heresy because we don't believe in RC teachings on the pope and other issues.

 

[tz620q]

Secondly, Orthodox people never killed Catholic monks for refusing to become Orhtodox, whist it happened the other way round (http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2009/10/26-martyrs-of-zographou-monastery.html).

You might want to read this Wiki article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_the_Latins

There have been way too many events in history where people who were Catholic or Orthodox did things that they shouldn't have done. Is this really a valid reason to support further disunity? Perhaps it is time to forgive.

 

[LJP]

Thanks was not aware of this event. This unfortunate event is described by the article as the result of mob activity ("after entering the city's Latin quarter a mob began attacking the inhabitants.Many had anticipated the events and escaped by sea") whilst the raid on Mount Athos was planned and executed systematically as was the Constantinople sack of 1204. An important difference is that the Orthodox church never blessed any violoence against Catholics that may have been committed by mobs or civil authorities.

And of course this is no reason for further disunity--especially because the Pope apologised already (http://orthodoxwiki.org/Fourth_Crusade) --the reasons lie in dogmatic differences which are unacceptable to the OC.

 

[Cappadocious]

Anyone who feels the need to respond to LJP with historical citations is twice the LARPer she is.

 

[stevenfrancis]

Hello there, this is my first post. I was thinking about converting to either Eastern Orthodox or Roman Catholicism- but while browsing the web, I've come across a fight between an Orthodox Christian and a Roman Catholic.

The OC says he has nothing against RC's, but he says that he hates the Vatican because apparently it's evil and it's filled with lies- and he also considers Roman Catholicism heretic. Sooooo... Do Orthodox Christians ACTUALLY hate Roman Catholicism?

God Bless.

No. There is no "hatred" by the Eastern Orthodox faith and the Roman Catholic Church at the "church" level on either side. I'm sure it is quite easy to find individual RC's and EO's who hate what the think the other is, or as individuals. These viewpoints are useless to the continuity of Christ's Church, and even counterproductive to Christ's message to all of us at every point on our walk.

 

[~Anastasia~]

No they don't.

yes, orthodox consider RC to be heretical. But it doesn't mean we can't be friends.

Two newcomers!

Welcome to CF, and to TT!

If you haven't made it over, we also have a community dedicated to Eastern Orthodox - TAW (The Ancient Way).

Enjoy the forums, and hope to see more posts from you both!

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Aiui (and I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong), someone who is a member of the Orthodox church may be a heretic in relation to Orthodoxy, but not in relation to Catholicism, and vice versa.

To be a heretic one has to be a full member of a church, and then decide to deliberately and knowingly deny one or more of its teachings. Even when the priest tries to convince such a person of error, they have to choose to remain in their wrong beliefs. Therefore, surely it is a nonsense to use the language of heresy in relation to full members of a different church; people who have never ascribed to a particular set of beliefs in the first place. Whatever the historical positions of those churches a thousand or more years ago, current Roman Catholics are not heretics irt Orthodoxy, nor vice versa. Martin Luther may well have been a heretic; that does not mean that every single modern Lutheran is in the same position.

I am not quite sure how any Christian calls another a heretic and then feels capable of adding, 'No offence'; nor how another can reply, 'None taken.' Surely the term is intended to offend. Therefore it seems to me that such language is really better avoided.

Ymmv.

Such language need not be avoided here. This forum is dedicated to traditionalists and traditionalists tend to be pragmatic and realists. When we sugar coat stuff, the coating is indeed sweet, but the core remains what it is. This forum is not a melting pot; it is a mosaic; we do not enter here to end up all the same; we come here because we have differences but may share some similarities; maybe a lot of similarities. We are here because of diversity, not synchronicity.

A heretic can be someone who is a heretic in the strict sense, or a heretic can be someone who holds heretical opinions. Opinions remain heretical regardless of the temporal, personal or generational distance from their creation.

In either case, I'm not offended when I'm called a heretic. If, at the end of the day, you can't be friends with people who consider you a heretic, where's the fun in life?

Cappadocious, my fellow heretic; well stated!

 

[AKBlessings]

I converted from Catholicism to Orthodoxy. I love them both.

 

[topcare]

<Staff Edit>

This being the Traditional Theology sub-forum quite a few of us would take issue with three and/or four of you list. But this thread is not about that it is about do Orthodox hate Catholics and from the responses the answer is no.

 

[seashale76]

Blind post. No, I don't hate Roman Catholicism. I disagree with parts of it, which is why I'm not Catholic. They get quite a lot right though. I pray that one day they will once again unite with the Orthodox Church.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Admin Hat...

This thread has undergone a cleanup. If your post or part of your post is missing, it's because it's off topic to this forum and has been removed in a cleanup.

Let me suggest to a few members who's posts were removed, to review our statement of faith and remember this forum is for the discussion of traditional and historic theologies and Churches, and the the discussion must always remain respectful, factual and relevant.

Mark
CF Admin