Do Creationists Believe in the Universe

Givemeareason

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I started to wonder if Creationists even believe in the universe since I know they argue against the Big Bang. Since there was no concept of the universe when Genesis was written I am wondering if they also deny the universe in order to retain the earth centered view of all existence. Otherwise, I don't see how they can reconcile belief in Genesis with the modern view of the universe.
 

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AV1611VET

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I started to wonder if Creationists even believe in the universe since I know they argue against the Big Bang.
I believe in the universe.
Givemeareason said:
Since there was no concept of the universe when Genesis was written ...
Says who?

Do you realize that God walked and talked with Adam & Eve ... probably on a daily basis?
Givemeareason said:
I am wondering if they also deny the universe in order to retain the earth centered view of all existence.
If you are talking about geocentrism, I have to wonder who exactly you are talking about?

I, for one, do not believe in geocentrism; and until I came here, have never met anyone who did (that I know of).
Givemeareason said:
Otherwise, I don't see how they can reconcile belief in Genesis with the modern view of the universe.
Perhaps they use a set of Boolean standards that make it easy to do so?
 
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Givemeareason

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I believe in the universe.Says who?

Do you realize that God walked and talked with Adam & Eve ... probably on a daily basis?If you are talking about geocentrism, I have to wonder who exactly you are talking about?

I, for one, do not believe in geocentrism; and until I came here, have never met anyone who did (that I know of).Perhaps they use a set of Boolean standards that make it easy to do so?

Do you believe in galaxies?... no mention of those in Genesis. What is in the model of the universe that you believe in and how does that universe compare to the model created by science? How do Boolean standards enable your view?
 
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Oncedeceived

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I started to wonder if Creationists even believe in the universe since I know they argue against the Big Bang. Since there was no concept of the universe when Genesis was written I am wondering if they also deny the universe in order to retain the earth centered view of all existence. Otherwise, I don't see how they can reconcile belief in Genesis with the modern view of the universe.
I am not sure creationists as a whole disagree with the Big Bang theory.
 
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AV1611VET

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Do you believe in galaxies?...
Yes, sir.
Givemeareason said:
no mention of those in Genesis.
No mention of gravity, either.

HOWEVER, with that logic, I should believe more in galaxies than gravity, as Genesis mentions stars; but there's no mention of gravity whatsoever.
Givemeareason said:
What is in the model of the universe that you believe in and how does that universe compare to the model created by science?
I believe in the universe just as it is configured in science textbooks, unless any part of it disagrees with the Bible.

I don't believe in deep time, for instance, but I do believe in long distances; i.e., in the millions of light years in length.
Givemeareason said:
How do Boolean standards enable your view?
Here they are:

My Boolean Standards:
If the Bible says it, but Science disagrees: go with the Bible.
If the Bible doesn't say it, but Science does: go with Science.
 
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PapaZoom

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I started to wonder if Creationists even believe in the universe since I know they argue against the Big Bang. Since there was no concept of the universe when Genesis was written I am wondering if they also deny the universe in order to retain the earth centered view of all existence. Otherwise, I don't see how they can reconcile belief in Genesis with the modern view of the universe.

I believe God created the universe so I guess that makes me a creationist. But I've never argued against the Big Bang.
What would it have to look like for Genesis to show a concept of the universe? And what do you mean an "earth centered view?"
 
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Givemeareason

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Yes, sir.No mention of gravity, either.

HOWEVER, with that logic, I should believe more in galaxies than gravity, as Genesis mentions stars; but there's no mention of gravity whatsoever.I believe in the universe just as it is configured in science textbooks, unless any part of it disagrees with the Bible.

I don't believe in deep time, for instance, but I do believe in long distances; i.e., in the millions of light years in length.Here they are:

My Boolean Standards:
If the Bible says it, but Science disagrees: go with the Bible.
If the Bible doesn't say it, but Science does: go with Science.

"In he beginning, God created the heavens and the earth" In your view, what are the heavens?
 
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Givemeareason

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I believe God created the universe so I guess that makes me a creationist. But I've never argued against the Big Bang.
What would it have to look like for Genesis to show a concept of the universe? And what do you mean an "earth centered view?"

I was referring to young earth creationism primarily or any creationism where Genesis is claimed to be taken literally. In Genesis the earth is created before the sun or the stars. Thus the earth was supposedly at the center.
 
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"In he beginning, God created the heavens and the earth"
That's not what the Bible says.

It says:[VERSE=Genesis 1:1,KJV]In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.[/VERSE]Note "heaven" in Verse 1 is singular.

It is not until Genesis 2:1, after the creation week, that we see "heaven" plural.[VERSE=Genesis 2:1,KJV]Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.[/VERSE]
Givemeareason said:
In your view, what are the heavens?
All three of them are containment areas, populated by specific objets d'art.

First Heaven = 0-62 miles up = the atomosphere = populated by the air, clouds, birds, etc.

Second Heaven = 62 miles-edge of universe = outer space = populated by planets, moons, stars, etc.

Third Heaven = Heaven proper = populated by Crystal Sea, Throne of God, mansions under construction, etc.
 
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In Genesis the earth is created before the sun or the stars. Thus the earth was supposedly at the center.
Why?

Can't a playground be built, starting with a swing set off to one side, then the rest of the playground built in?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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I started to wonder if Creationists even believe in the universe since I know they argue against the Big Bang. Since there was no concept of the universe when Genesis was written I am wondering if they also deny the universe in order to retain the earth centered view of all existence. Otherwise, I don't see how they can reconcile belief in Genesis with the modern view of the universe.

Ummm, excuse me, but in case you were not aware of it - it was a creationist that started the Big Bang theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

"was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Leuven. He proposed (independently of Russian physicist Alexander Friedman) the theory of the expansion of the universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble. He was the first to derive what is now known as Hubble's law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble's article. Lemaître also proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, which he called his "hypothesis of the primeval atom" or the "Cosmic Egg".

Which just tells me how much most really understand of it. So believe me when I say if I wanted to accept that obviously flawed creation theory being a creationist myself - the Big Bang would be the first stop on the list. It's flawed because it's wrong, because of their misconceptions of redshift.

Because the modern view of the universe is just as flawed as was the then modern view of the universe when the Milky-Way was the entire universe. Or before that the modern view of when the earth was the center.

It's simply because cosmologists refuse to treat plasma like it is treated in every single laboratory by plasma physicists. Instead expecting it to behave by physics for solids, liquids and gasses.
 
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Givemeareason

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That's not what the Bible says.

It says:[VERSE=Genesis 1:1,KJV]In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.[/VERSE]Note "heaven" in Verse 1 is singular.

It is not until Genesis 2:1, after the creation week, that we see "heaven" plural.[VERSE=Genesis 2:1,KJV]Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.[/VERSE]All three of them are containment areas, populated by specific objets d'art.

First Heaven = 0-62 miles up = the atomosphere = populated by the air, clouds, birds, etc.

Second Heaven = 62 miles-edge of universe = outer space = populated by planets, moons, stars, etc.

Third Heaven = Heaven proper = populated by Crystal Sea, Throne of God, mansions under construction, etc.

So in the first Genesis, Heaven was the kingdom of God? And so Heaven and earth were created before the sun, moon and stars... and presumably the rest of our galaxy and all the others?
 
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Oncedeceived

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I was referring to young earth creationism primarily or any creationism where Genesis is claimed to be taken literally. In Genesis the earth is created before the sun or the stars. Thus the earth was supposedly at the center.
Genesis doesn't claim that the earth was at the center.
 
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Givemeareason

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Ummm, excuse me, but in case you were not aware of it - it was a creationist that started the Big Bang theory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

"was a Belgian priest, astronomer and professor of physics at the Catholic University of Leuven. He proposed (independently of Russian physicist Alexander Friedman) the theory of the expansion of the universe, widely misattributed to Edwin Hubble. He was the first to derive what is now known as Hubble's law and made the first estimation of what is now called the Hubble constant, which he published in 1927, two years before Hubble's article. Lemaître also proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory of the origin of the Universe, which he called his "hypothesis of the primeval atom" or the "Cosmic Egg".

Which just tells me how much most really understand of it. So believe me when I say if I wanted to accept that obviously flawed creation theory being a creationist myself - the Big Bang would be the first stop on the list. It's flawed because it's wrong, because of their misconceptions of redshift.

Because the modern view of the universe is just as flawed as was the then modern view of the universe when the Milky-Way was the entire universe. Or before that the modern view of when the earth was the center.

It's simply because cosmologists refuse to treat plasma like it is treated in every single laboratory by plasma physicists. Instead expecting it to behave by physics for solids, liquids and gasses.

Yes, I was aware of that. But I don't think he was promoting a literal creation as in Genesis which I am trying to understand.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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So in the first Genesis, Heaven was the kingdom of God? And so Heaven and earth were created before the sun, moon and stars... and presumably the rest of our galaxy and all the others?

Only if they translate it wrong based upon pre-conceived beliefs.

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/1.htm

Notice shamayim is also a plural as noted that the KJV which is claimed to mean heaven singular in Ge 1:1 is translated heavens in 2:1. Then "hayah" does not mean "was", but became, or falls out of a prior existence. The earth "became" desolate and waste, and darkness "became" upon the surface of the deep. And so the dinosaurs went extinct. Meteor, comet, doesn't matter. In perfect agreement with the Bible. But the 5 prior creations and 5 prior destruction's is not the subject of the Bible.
 
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PapaZoom

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I was referring to young earth creationism primarily or any creationism where Genesis is claimed to be taken literally. In Genesis the earth is created before the sun or the stars. Thus the earth was supposedly at the center.

That clarifies things. :oldthumbsup:
 
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