Disobedience and Obedience.. The Works..

[visionary]

All the comments on disobedience...

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

2 Corinthians 10:6
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 5:6
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Colossians 3:6
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Hebrews 2:2
For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;

Now compare that to obedience...

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 16:19
For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

2 Corinthians 7:15
And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

2 Corinthians 10:6
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Philemon 1:21
Having confidence in thy obedience I wrote unto thee, knowing that thou wilt also do more than I say.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

This is a world of difference between those who are obedient to the faith, the spirit in which obedience is offered, and the law which is obeyed.. and that of th world of disobedience which spreads itself in spirit, in actions and in end results.

 

[Hentenza]

This is a world of difference between those who are obedient to the faith, the spirit in which obedience is offered, and the law which is obeyed.. and that of th world of disobedience which spreads itself in spirit, in actions and in end results.

No one should be obedient to the faith but should be obedient because of the faith. Big difference.

 

[visionary]

No one should be obedient to the faith but should be obedient because of the faith. Big difference.

How do you see obedience to the faith different that because of the faith..??

I can see what you mean if you have defined "faith" as some particular church's doctrines encasing it.. and not the living faith in God of which is a ongoing relationship...

Because of our faith,.. which ever it is... we do things in accordance to that faith... in that sense we are obedient to that particular "faith" which may or may not have any relationship to the living God.

It like those who say... "I am [... just insert any church organizational name ]and if given a choice between Christ or the church, I will choose to follow the church." That is a church faith and not a God faith.

 

[Sphinx777]

There is no shame in taking orders from those who themselves have learned to obey.

~ William Edward Forster

It is much safer to obey, than to govern.

~ Thomas ã Kempis

Unwavering obedience to the true principals we learn will assure us spiritual survival.

~ Anonymous

Promises are the uniquely human way of ordering the future, making it predictable and reliable to the extent that this is humanly possible.

~ Hannah Arendt

Public opinion is a permeating influence, and it exacts obedience to itself; it requires us to think other men's thoughts, to speak other men's words, to follow other men's habits.

~ Walter Bagehot

One act of obedience is better than one hundred sermons.

~ Dietrich Bonhoeffer

A great work is made out of a combination of obedience and liberty.

~ Nadia Boulanger

A great many of us must move from words to acts - from words of dissent to acts of disobedience.

~ Barbara Deming

There was a time when we expected nothing of our children but obedience, as opposed to the present, when we expect everything of them but obedience.

~ Anatole Broyard

The strongest is never strong enough to be always the master, unless he transforms strength into right, and obedience into duty.

~ Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.

~ Thomas Jefferson

The only safe ruler is he who has learned to obey willingly.

~ Thomas à Kempis

Why does the dead ball moon shining with stolen light have more power on earth than the vastly larger self luminescent stars? Proximity.

~ Sai Baba

There are two kinds of men who never amount to much: those who cannot do what they are told, and those who can do nothing else.

~ Cyrus H. Curtis

Obedience alone gives the right to command.

~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

Wicked men obey from fear; good men, from love.

~ Aristotle

​

 

[RND]

No one should be obedient to the faith but should be obedient because of the faith. Big difference.

That's true! Christians should keep the "because" they are saved, not in order "to" be saved.

 

[Frogster]

Personally,that long list shows me why I would rather walk by faith,under a life principal,than a legalisitic one.

Galatians 3:21 Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law.

After reading that,the law did it's job,now I have a consciousness of sin..................great,thats all I need!

 

[RND]

...now I have a consciousness of sin..................great,thats all I need!

Based on what?

 

[Frogster]

Based on what?

Just like when a kid makes a snowman,they roll the snowball till it gets big.Then they cant lift it.

 

[RND]

Just like when a kid makes a snowman,they roll the snowball till it gets big.Then they cant lift it.

So eventually a law comes into play one way or another. In your analogy it's the law of gravity.

Does grace come to the disobedient?

 

[Frogster]

I am obedient to the law of faith,and grace.That is a different kind ofodedience.

Romans 1:5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,

Dont forget,we walk by the law of faith,that is different.

Note the comparison.

Romans 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Ok,so do you live by faith,or law?

 

[RND]

I am obedient to the law of faith,and grace.That is a different kind ofodedience.

What does that mean exactly? What is the "law of faith and grace"?

Romans 1:5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations,

Dont forget,we walk by the law of faith,that is different.

Note the comparison.

Romans 3:27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Ok,so do you live by faith,or law?

I live by faith which allows me to be obedient to the law.

Tell me, when you drive the streets of your city do you drive through stop signs and red lights because you have faith you won't get into an accident? If not, why not? Or (most likely), do you obey those signals and signs because you know if you do they will keep you out of harms way?

If you told your kid not to play in traffic because it's not safe and you love him and you later found him playing in the street, would you accept his explanation by saying, "I had faith I wouldn't get hit by a car"? Or would you prefer he exercise faith in your commandment not to play in the street?

 

[Frogster]

What does that mean exactly? What is the "law of faith and grace"?
I live by faith which allows me to be obedient to the law.

Tell me, when you drive the streets of your city do you drive through stop signs and red lights because you have faith you won't get into an accident? If not, why not? Or (most likely), do you obey those signals and signs because you know if you do they will keep you out of harms way?

If you told your kid not to play in traffic because it's not safe and you love him and you later found him playing in the street, would you accept his explanation by saying, "I had faith I wouldn't get hit by a car"? Or would you prefer he exercise faith in your commandment not to play in the street?

Well,yes as a kid,I was under law.But you know what...I dont need the law..think about it this way..If one has no desire to do wrong,then why does one need the law?I would argue that those who need the law,need inner power,then they wont have a need for law.

 

[DavinMochrie]

No one is Good but the father says JC.

The obedience is about God, not Obedience to other humans.

Ultimately Obedience to God is what we need, not Obedience to Mammon.

 

[RND]

Were the questions that hard to answer?

Well,yes as a kid,I was under law.But you know what...I dont need the law..think about it this way..If one has no desire to do wrong,then why does one need the law?

So you are perfect and never sin? Man's is inherently working against the will of God in His flesh

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

I would argue that those who need the law,need inner power,then they wont have a need for law.

I would argue that without the Holy Spirit is is impossible of observe the law of God.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[squint]

IF one loves their neighbor as themselves then ALL THE LAW, whatever 'commandment' there IS, is fulfilled IN US.

Does physical attendance or observation 'individually' PROVE LOVE to ones neighbors? Perhaps in your mind it does. But the reality is that IF you attend/observe/participate in that, and the result is to CONDEMN your neighbors for SINNING by not doing so, you have merely USED THE LAW to bring condemnation to your neighbors INTO yourself USING the Law. And false justification under the LAW to that CONDEMNATION also results. This is an exact opposite of being a 'doer' of THE LAW.

What then is obedience to ANY COMMAND?

Attending/observing a gathering on a certain day OR loving ones neibhbors?

It might seem to many that the attendance of sabbath is quite worthless IF the final result is CONDEMNATION of neighbors and self justifications for observations or attendances.

What then about 'do not commit adultery' or 'do not steal?'

It is more important to BRING CONDEMNATION to the neighbors that ARE UNDER that bondage, or to LOVE them?

These are the questions that THE LAW does bring...

The fulfillment of ALL COMMANDS however has not changed...The ultimate command is FULfilled by LOVING all neighbors.

The same COMMAND that you FALSELY THINK brings DEATH to them and LIFE TO YOU has in fact been turned on it's head because you have merely brought DEATH to your neighbors THINKING that is just when that SAME LAW will condemn you in the same fashion YOU CONDEMNED THEM...

and the CONDEMNATION to neighbors is EVIDENT in those who use the LAW in that fashion.

It is quite likely that the LOVE your UNsaved sinning neighbors HAVE will JUSTIFY THEM under the requirement of FULFILLMENT of the LAW, and the LAW you used to CONDEMN THEM will in fact CONDEMN YOU.

As you so measure...your service in condemnation will return upon your own head 7 billion ways for each and every neighbor you CONDEMNED under the LAW RATHER THAN LOVING THEM.

And every ONE of them WHO LOVED will be JUSTIFIED by AND IN LOVE under the requirements of THE LAW.

enjoy!

squint

 

[visionary]

And righteousness... comes from obedience.