Discussion With A Mormon

[GregConstantine]

Tomorrow evening I'm meeting up with a girl who is a Mormon. She is planning on attending liturgy this Sunday (weather allowing).

I'm sure our conversation tomorrow will be very interesting. I'm curious to hear you guy's experiences of talking with Mormons.

I'm somewhat familiar with their blasphemous theology. When this comes up, I'm planning on attempting to force her into a corner discussion wise by asking her who or what does she worship. I'm also going to ask her before doing that who or what is God? What makes God different from creation (they believe their false god was once a created being).

 

[buzuxi02]

Probably their most idiotic belief is that Christ has anointed north america as new zion and will reside here when He comes back. So much for Christ saying "My Kingdom is not of this World"

 

[GregConstantine]

Oh no, its worst then that, they believe that "God" or they sometimes call him "Elohim", was once a created human being who became a self existing deity, and Christ is his "literal" (I mean, literally, biologically) his "son".

There's more but that's some of the icing on the cake. The whole zionism thing is common to some other protestant sects, they may not take it as far as the mormons do, but they believe America has some special calling or blessing that makes it different from other nations in the world.

 

[GregConstantine]

If they say God was once a human being, then ultimately, who or what is the creator of the universe? And, if that's the case, they are worshipping an idol. They also believe there are billions of these "gods" all across the universe, well, why are they not worshipping them? why are they only worshipping this one particular "god"?

 

[Sophrosyne]

We have an Unorthodox doctrinal discussion area of the forum here where they talk about Mormonism all the time. My advice in it all is to try and ascertain how long she has been a Mormon as many of them were raised from childhood as one and indoctrination runs very deep. There is all sorts of things that they believe themselves and a lot of things that the church has on the books that was believed but may not be known or taught as their theology is revised constantly.

 

[GregConstantine]

Yes of course, but my original post is asking about people's personal experiences, not about Mormon theology.

As always, treads get off topic because frankly, most people don't know how to read and stay on topic. That may sound mean but its true.

 

[~Anastasia~]

A good friend of my mother's was Mormon, and we used to go to church with them and I've had quite a few discussions about their beliefs.

For myself, it seemed like an interesting fantasy as a child. We talked a lot about "levels" in the afterlife, and how one would be able to descend to lower levels to visit, but not ascend (or there was some one special condition where it could rarely happen?).

Very much of the "lived life" seemed to focus on food. There were so many "not allowed" things. They could have soda, but it couldn't have caffeine. And she had a room filled with "emergency" food. A great deal of it was dehydrated stuff. They seemed to expect some kind of disaster and wanted to be prepared? I'm really not sure how that actually related to theology, but it did seem to be an expectation for everyone who belonged to the church.

I doubt any of this would be very useful to you though?

 

[Kristos]

My experience with morons is that they are very friendly - to the point of being creepy. They don't take no for an answer and can be very pushy. If well indoctrinated, they will have a logical reply to anything you can throw at them, so don't count on cornering them with logic.

 

[xenia]

As ridiculous as some aspects of Mormon theology is, we have to remember that they believe it with their whole hearts so be careful of coming off as mocking* when you talk with her. Once two Mormon missionaries came to the door and I made a derisive remark about Joseph Smith and one of them got red in the face and balled up his fist as though to hit me. (His partner held him back.) To this young man, Joseph Smith was just as good as St. John Chrysostom or St. Peter and mocking Smith just made it impossible to continue the conversation. I probably knocked him a few steps further away from the Kingdom that day.

So tell the truth but I would avoid mental images like "forcing her into a corner," etc. although your idea of asking what is the ultimate difference between God and creation is really good. Be a good listener and respond to what she actually says. This may lead you on a rabbit trail that goes off the path you have planned for the conversation but it might address her genuine concerns.

I remember some Calvinists invited me to dinner once. It was a ruse so the man of the house could corner me in the living room trying to prove Calvinism was true. He'd ask a question, I would try to give a thoughtful answer but it was clear that he wasn't listening to what I was saying because he was working on his follow-up question. It was obvious that he was working from a script to "force me into a corner." So be a good listener, even if it takes you off-script.

In other words, leave her in such a frame of mind that she wants more of Orthodoxy, not angry and trapped. A love for Orthodoxy will drive Mormonism clear out of her heart on its own. It's great that she is coming to Liturgy!

Good job!

-Xenia

* I don't think you are a mocker, by the way. I was reflecting on my own apologetic disasters more than commenting on anything you might do!

 

[Soderquj]

^ this. As an ex Mormon you can not be seen as attacking the Church or it's beliefs. Even if she is not a true follower this tactic will end the conversation. Best advice is to ask her about her beliefs and responding with the Orthodox view in an informational manner, not in a your wrong and here is why. Bring in that the original church had these beliefs and they have been handed down since the time of the apostles.

 

[GregConstantine]

@Xenia, totally agree, I meant back her into a corner discussion wise, not personally. I'm totally against going by a script thing, I've talked to people like that before, JW's are famous for that. Once this JW kept telling trying to tell me about the Kingdom of God. He kept trying to quote scriptures as if he was trying to convince me of it. I said to him, you don't need to try to convince an Orthodox Christian of the realities of the Kingdom of God, we experience it all the time!

@Soderquj,as a former Mormon, how would you suggest getting around their claim that the Church went into apostasy?

I would like to hear your story of how you came to be Orthodox, if you don't mind sharing that. Thanks!

 

[Joseph Hazen]

I remember talking with a Mormon once and finding some weird areas where we could find common-ish ground. Their theology can be construed as a corruption of Theosis, so you could approach that angle. We also believe in eternal marriage, though not in the way they do. Their delusions about Christ being a created being could be the beginning of an elevated view of creation, so lead that into a discussion on Sacramental Theology. The importance of the church authority, the secretiveness that we used to have about the sacraments and their current attitudes towards their 'temples', being the true Israel, there are areas to connect and correct on. Oh and friends and family members becoming 'gods' was an interesting inroad into a discussion about the saints.

But they are very firm in their beliefs, usually. There is a hard reality of groupthink in their church which disregards or doesn't see the numerous historical problems with their version of history. That was one of the hardest parts for me to not mock when I was discussing it with a Mormon.

 

[Tigger45]

Tomorrow evening I'm meeting up with a girl who is a Mormon. She is planning on attending liturgy this Sunday (weather allowing).

I'm sure our conversation tomorrow will be very interesting. I'm curious to hear you guy's experiences of talking with Mormons.

I'm somewhat familiar with their blasphemous theology. When this comes up, I'm planning on attempting to force her into a corner discussion wise by asking her who or what does she worship. I'm also going to ask her before doing that who or what is God? What makes God different from creation (they believe their false god was once a created being).

Wow a Mormon attendind DL! That is huge. Being born and living in Utah I have an extensive history with their culture and mind set.

My $0.02 is treat her as an individual. Get a feel for where she is coming from. Also 'I' would try to avoid telling her whats wrong with Mormonism and try to stick to what's right about EO.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

translation to OP:

Hey guys,
I'm thinking of dating a Mormon chick, but I need to convert her out of this crazy cult first. I really dig this chick! Help!

 

[GregConstantine]

She is somewhat fluent in ASL, there is a woman at my parish who is deaf and is in need of an intepreter. I told her that we are looking for an interpreter for her, and she enthusiastically volunteered to try to interpret for her. I thought to myself, "is she sure she wants to do that?" lol. So that's how she's going to the DL, if the weather permits us to do so, they are claiming a winter storm is heading for the East Coast, but we'll see.

 

[GregConstantine]

LOL, she is cute, but no I'm not going to date her. I do think she likes me though.

 

[Antony in Tx]

Greg,

Given that she is coming to DL to minister, I would do nothing more than answer her questions/give her guidance as to what is going on/why we do what we do. Don't feel that you need to explain much to her at all. Let the mere presence of Grace in our midst wash over her and sweep her up. The less said, the more impact it may have. This is a time to retreat into St Seaphim's instruction to "Acquire a peaceful spirit and thousands around you will be saved." If she comes once and is not attacked, but allowed to feel the blessing of helping this deaf woman, she will come back. If that is complicated by her being browbeaten into "right thinking", she will likely just not return. Let the positive experience reel her in, not admonishment. This is definitely a place where I think you stand a much better chance to catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And hey, if she's cute and she likes you...perhaps you guys will become good friends, if it is God's Will perhaps more. Just let His Will be done in all of this.

 

[GregConstantine]

Thanks Anthony, totally agree!

 

[~Anastasia~]

Greg,

Given that she is coming to DL to minister, I would do nothing more than answer her questions/give her guidance as to what is going on/why we do what we do. Don't feel that you need to explain much to her at all. Let the mere presence of Grace in our midst wash over her and sweep her up. The less said, the more impact it may have. This is a time to retreat into St Seaphim's instruction to "Acquire a peaceful spirit and thousands around you will be saved." If she comes once and is not attacked, but allowed to feel the blessing of helping this deaf woman, she will come back. If that is complicated by her being browbeaten into "right thinking", she will likely just not return. Let the positive experience reel her in, not admonishment. This is definitely a place where I think you stand a much better chance to catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. And hey, if she's cute and she likes you...perhaps you guys will become good friends, if it is God's Will perhaps more. Just let His Will be done in all of this.

Some wisdom there. One time my husband came to Divine Liturgy with me. The mistake I made was in trying to explain things. He was just wanting to experience it.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Cute Mormon, nice! She'd be a good grab! She doesn't drink caffeine, they're pretty moral, clean-cut, a touch naive. The only downside is the whole false prophet, spirit babies, magic underwear, Planet Kolob, lost bronze plates hidden in Palmyra, NY, secret marriage underground sealing ceremonies, false holy books, history of racism and polygamy, and overall weirdness.

LOL, she is cute, but no I'm not going to date her. I do think she likes me though.