Difficulty in finding a church I can truly belong to.

[MechPebbles]

The church i was previously at, I worked the lighting. Yes, it was a mega church. Before the new sanctuary, the main sound guy kept the db around 90. At the new sanctuary, the hired a new guy and he brought it up to around 100-102db. His philosophy was he was sorry you couldn't take it, but there were plenty of churches around. Only a small minority complained.

90dB would be really cozy. I do not know of anyone in real life who complains of the music being too loud. Perhaps lots of people are deaf or their ears are plugged with earwax. Who knows? Nowadays in modern churches, people think that true worship means to have your emotions whipped up to a frenzied state. There's a worship leader I really dread who thinks it's his holy duty to stir up the congregation so as to ascend the emotional stairs and join him in his state of ecstatic euphoria. I have written his name down and will make a special effort to avoid that church when he is leading.

I don't mind the modern music. I like it. I don't typically like the lyrics. I have been known to be reprimanded by the worship pastor for facebooking how many minutes went by before the first verse was read in sermon time. I guess publicizing 20 minutes went by is a bad thing?

You're a funny guy. I wish I knew someone like you in real life. I think one of the reasons I am so discontented is that everyone else is so satisfied and fulfilled.

 

[MechPebbles]

Granted this is not much of an answer given your need, but it may help. Could you survive a church, but exercise your gifts and training on CF or otherwise online? Maybe start or join a blog, garnering a diaspora disciple group rather than, face-to-face, teach Sunday school or small group discipleship group? Granted there are a lot of oblivious or resistant or unwilling folk out there, but could you perhaps supplement disciple making online among some who might listen to you?

Or is switching jobs and moving to an area with a church you can live with an option? Or at your present location (or elsewhere) focusing on evangelism and starting your own church?

Strange you should mention online ministry. My wife told me many years ago her BSF leader spent her free time correcting answers to a Christian correspondence course for new believers. I should look into that. Thanks.

 

[MechPebbles]

...but it's a parable...
It means i.m.o. that who has been given a piece of faith (gold = talent (a coin)) should do something with it, or it is wasted.

Do you think it's enough for a believer committed to his Lord to just attend Sunday service?

 

[mikedsjr]

90 db would be really cozy. I do not know of anyone in real life who complains of the music being too loud. Perhaps lots of people are deaf or their ears are plugged with earwax. Who knows? Nowadays in modern churches, people think that true worship means to have your emotions whipped up to a frenzied state. There's a worship leader I really dread who thinks it's his holy duty to stir up the congregation so as to ascend the emotional stairs and join him in his state of ecstatic euphoria. I have written his name down and will make a special effort to avoid that church when he is leading.

I love how they sometimes say something on the lines of "I don't want people to worship me, but let me help you worship God". Can you imagine a organist standing up at a traditional service and saying that? The sad thing is that would be considered awkward, but the worship pastor, it's so "authentic".

You're a funny guy. I wish I knew someone like you in real life. I think one of the reasons I am so discontented is that everyone else is so satisfied and fulfilled.

Ha. The last church didn't think so, though I humored a few, and they would just look at me with a smirk and say, "oh Michael, Michael."

 

[Hieronymus]

Do you think it's enough for a believer committed to his Lord to just attend Sunday service?

Going to church for the weekly service is not that important i.m.o.
Christ wants us to love eachother, even your enemies.
Love is both Christ's Commandment / Law and fruit of the faith.
(i fail at that regularly though... so even the Law of Christ often condemns us.)
And for the rest we should discuss the faith and the Bible with eachother and when possible spread the Word, but with care.
I think for discussing the faith there's more life on forums than in the average church.
At least the ones i tried.
The SDA was a bit of an exception though, but i have serious problems with Ellen White.

 

[twin1954]

The only Baptist churches in my area with traditional worship are the two Reformed Baptist churches. All the others have loud rock bands. So loud that I frequently feel physical pain in my ears.

Have you ever thought of trying to start a church? Do you know any who are in agreement with you? Invite some folks over for a Bible study and see how it goes.

 

[twin1954]

Going to chrurch for the weekly service is not that important i.m.o.
Christ wants us to love eachother, even your enemies.
Love is both Christ's Commandment / Law and fruit of the faith.
(i fail at that regularly though... so even the Law of Christ often condemns us.)
And for the rest we should discuss the faith and the Bible with eachother and when possible spread the Word, but with care.
I think for discussing the faith there's more life on forums than in the average church.
At least the ones i tried.
The SDA was a bit of an exception though, but i have serious problems with Ellen White.

Actually God started the practice of public worship right after the Fall.

(Gen 4:3) And in the end of days, it happened, Cain brought to Jehovah an offering of the fruit of the ground.

This shows that there was an appointed time to worship God. If you have a place that you can worship God and do not attend that worship what does it mean for your spiritual health? Yet I know that there are many in this country , and the world, who have no one with whom they can publically worship God. My heart breaks for them. I am in contact with several who think that they are as Elijah when he complained to God that he was alone. I always tell them to trust in the sovereignty of God and rest in the fact that all is for their good.

 

[mikedsjr]

Going to chrurch for the weekly service is not that important i.m.o.

I agree. Chrurch isn't.......what is chrurch? [emoji12]

 

[Albion]

Have you ever thought of trying to start a church? Do you know any who are in agreement with you? Invite some folks over for a Bible study and see how it goes.

That's sort of a last resort and doesn't really constitute a "church." So while Bible Study is good to do, this probably isn't going to be the answer.

 

[ml5363]

LOL!! You must be the first person to say anything positive about me in this regard. Thanks, brother.

The way I see it, though, there is a self-defeating problem. It goes like this:
1) I love God's Word. I spend a lot of time studying it.
2) God must have put that love in me.
3) What do I do with it? I use it to develop heterodoxy-phobia.

Every time I read the parable of the talents, the final condemnation strikes terror in my heart.

i think each individual church has a set of doctrine they promote more than others..I struggled to find a church when i moved years ago until recently...i say try out churches not just by their name..but by going in them and feeling them out..i attended an independent baptist for the first time...enjoyed it...looking it up online ..they seem to be a lot more conservative..it just varies... i feel the spirit there ...pastor preaches from the bible...(KJV) which I have but I have other versions I read at home as well (shhh) i refer to several to see the differences..lol have even had some convictions while being there...just go where you feel right..the rest will right itself...where are you located by the way?

 

[Hieronymus]

That's sort of a last resort and doesn't really constitute a "church."

Why not?
A church is a gathering in Christ's name.

So while Bible Study is good to do, this probably isn't going to be the answer.

Why not?

 

[Hieronymus]

I agree. Chrurch isn't.......what is chrurch? [emoji12]

It's a spelling error.

 

[FaithfulPilgrim]

Maybe Southern Baptist? They are not officially Calvinist, but there are Reformed congregations within the denomination.

 

[Albion]

Why not?

It's a gathering in Christ's name, but it's not just a gathering. A church performs certain functions that Bible study doesn't--the Lord's Supper, for example. And there are officers or clergy, according to the Biblical model.

 

[mikedsjr]

Do you think it's enough for a believer committed to his Lord to just attend Sunday service?

Absolutely. Sunday School is a modern tradition. I think it's the absolute WORST part of church.........depending on the church. There are some pretty bad baptist preachers too. There should be no bible teaching in it and call it social time. Force everyone to learn scripture in service from one person, the pastor, who is actually supposed to be trained for this.

Oh how a loathe baptist as an autonomous church.

 

[MechPebbles]

Going to church for the weekly service is not that important i.m.o.
Christ wants us to love eachother, even your enemies.
Love is both Christ's Commandment / Law and fruit of the faith.
(i fail at that regularly though... so even the Law of Christ often condemns us.)
And for the rest we should discuss the faith and the Bible with eachother and when possible spread the Word, but with care.
I think for discussing the faith there's more life on forums than in the average church.
At least the ones i tried.
The SDA was a bit of an exception though, but i have serious problems with Ellen White.

There was a time in my life when I was so disillusioned with church I decided to quit church for a year and see if I could sustain my faith with just my personal devotions. But that one year stretched on to quite a few years. Then I read an article written by a Presbyterian minister who said this: "There is no salvation apart from the church." The emotional part of me was scared silly but the cerebral part of me dismissed it as mere Roman Catholic theology. Then more Reformed ministers wrote the same thing and since all of them held to a strong Reformational stance, I could not accuse them of reversing the Reformation. After that the commentaries I was reading started stressing that when we saw our faith, walk and salvation as an individual thing, between just me and my Lord, this was a false modern construct and that the Bible views the relationship as between God and His people.

All through history, both in the Old and New Testaments God's people worshiped Him gathered together. This was what made me return to church. That and the testimony of course. When you share the gospel with someone, they almost always ask you what church you go to. If you tell them you don't go to church, they'll laugh at you.

Anyway, I believe the Bible testifies strongly to the importance of corporate worship in a believer's life. We should not allow our modern worldview which exalts individuality over community to dilute our understanding of how central corporate worship should be.

 

[MechPebbles]

Maybe Southern Baptist? They are not officially Calvinist, but there are Reformed congregations within the denomination.

The two Baptist churches I attend are closely related to the SBC. Unfortunately, if you read my original post, they have both traits of Group A churches.

 

[MechPebbles]

Are there any evangelical, that is non-mainline, reformed churches within your geographical range?

The PC(USA) last year redefined marriage as a union between two people (regardless of gender). They also ordain ministers who are of a certain persuasion. (Not sure what I'm allowed to say here.) If you're a Bible believer, you can see the problem.

It would have to be a PCA or OPC church (or several other, smaller, ones), that's right. However, they'd probably be classed as Group B, as defined in the OP.

I had always thought of the Presbyterian churches in my area as being liberal but thanks to your prodding, I have done some research and found two Presbyterian churches linked to the PCA. Unfortunately, at least from their website, their music looks identical to that of my Baptist churches. Still, it's nice to have alternatives. Thanks.

 

[Albion]

I had always thought of the Presbyterian churches in my area as being liberal but thanks to your prodding, I have done some research and found two Presbyterian churches linked to the PCA. Unfortunately, at least from their website, their music looks identical to that of my Baptist churches. Still, it's nice to have alternatives. Thanks.

I'm not any kind of authority on this particular subject, and the PCA has grown so much in recent years that it probably does have a range of worship styles now, but what you describe doesn't sound like the usual PCA type of worship, so maybe it would be worth a phone call or visit before closing out the investigation.

 

[Hieronymus]

There was a time in my life when I was so disillusioned with church I decided to quit church for a year and see if I could sustain my faith with just my personal devotions. But that one year stretched on to quite a few years. Then I read an article written by a Presbyterian minister who said this: "There is no salvation apart from the church." The emotional part of me was scared silly but the cerebral part of me dismissed it as mere Roman Catholic theology. Then more Reformed ministers wrote the same thing and since all of them held to a strong Reformational stance, I could not accuse them of reversing the Reformation.

Sure you could.
It's called the counter-reformation.
Also, the reformation was just not that succesful in some respects.
Moreover, we have the written Word of God, which to me has the authority over any denomination / institutionalization.

After that the commentaries I was reading started stressing that when we saw our faith, walk and salvation as an individual thing, between just me and my Lord, this was a false modern construct and that the Bible views the relationship as between God and His people.

I disagree with that.
Sure, God didn't mean Christians to be loners i.m.o., but what's the option when you have problems with organised religion in view of Scripture?

All through history, both in the Old and New Testaments God's people worshiped Him gathered together. This was what made me return to church. That and the testimony of course. When you share the gospel with someone, they almost always ask you what church you go to. If you tell them you don't go to church, they'll laugh at you.

On the contrary rather.
At least, in my experience.

Anyway, I believe the Bible testifies strongly to the importance of corporate worship in a believer's life.

Yes, it definitely does.

We should not allow our modern worldview which exalts individuality over community to dilute our understanding of how central corporate worship should be.

It's modern so called Christianity that has diverted from the Way i.m.o.
I don't believe in Christianity, i believe in Christ.
Christianity is not the Way, Christ is.

But i don't disagree with you completely though.