Defining sola scriptura.
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Rick Otto
The Dude Abides
- Nov 19, 2002
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I've been asking for the official definition of sola scriptura for years now, not a repost of post #11, but anything linked to an official source. Perhaps it's the posting style or perhaps it's the shoddy understanding of Catholicism, but I'm not that gullible that I'm willing to take anyone's word for it. I, like the sola scripturists, like to read things for myself. Therefore, I would still like to examine any official definitions formulated by any of the sola scripturist denominations. Twelve years ago when I converted to Catholicism I never had to deal with this kind of obstructionism. Catholics were happy to link me to official documents which I could access and read at my own leisure. Ironic that it took a Catholic to recently provide the source for what we have been told is the official, historical, formal, confessional, verbatim definition of sola scriptura. Here are all seventeen words again in context:
The Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord - Book of Concord
Notice, the word infallible isn't in there. Already you've deviated from the official, historical, formal, confessional, verbatim definition of sola scriptura.
But, beyond that, I'm also seeing deviations from the definition offered us to in post #11. Concepts usually associated with sola scriptura such as scripture interprets scripture, the perspicuity of scripture or the Holy Spirit teaching individuals about scripture.
Really, the official official, historical, formal, confessional, verbatim definition of sola scriptura offered to us in post #11 is limited to an unnamed group of churchmen and then only for norming dogma. All this other stuff that comes up in the guise of sola scriptura isn't really sola scriptura. Or, so I'm told.
So, how about it? Surely Reformed Baptists have defined this iconic concept/principle/practice/rule/teaching/doctrine beyond seventeen words.
Finally, I hate to burst burst your bubble, but sola scriptura hasn't disproved, overturned or altered any dogma of the Catholic Church one tittle. Besides, that's not sola scriptura. Sola scriptura is for norming dogma 'among us', whoever 'us' is. I kind of doubt the authors had Reformed Baptists in mind when they penned that.
Your failure to find what you consider an official source bursted my bubble of thinking you were capable of understanding a definition when found.
But it is nice to know you are comfortable with your private decision on whom to trust in these matters, even if you are deeply confused about who that really is.
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Metal Minister
New Year, Still Old School!
Pretty much what all our RCC friends have fallen back to is an appeal to authority fallacy.
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barryatlake
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Luke 10:16 all authority given to His Apostolic Church, hope you don't think Jesus was speaking about your ministers.
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Albion
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...and the worst of it is that they've flatout invented a justification for doing so.
If there were a real argument there, we'd all be appreciative of it. But it's not scriptural unless scripture is misstated and it's clearly not traditional, even if one were to think traditions to be the equal of scripture.
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barryatlake
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Albion, do you believe at Pentecost that the Holy Spirit came down and inspired the apostolic Church?
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barryatlake
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Metal, wrong really wrong. the only church Jesus founded was on His Apostles [ Eph 2: 19-20, The apostles were the first leaders and since the 1ST Century, there has been an unbroken line of Catholic clergy faithfully handing on what the apostles taught the first Christians in Sacred Scripture and Sacred Oral Tradition [ 2 Tim. 2:2 ]
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Metal Minister
New Year, Still Old School!
No there hasn't, and you just proved my point! You just used circular reasoning to say the RCC is the church founded by Christ at Pentecost. Otherwise, if you think there's been this unbroken line, please provide for me this line, and a quote from every one of the bodily assumption of Mary.
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- Jan 8, 2011
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The list for saint peter's see is long but you did ask.
The Lord Jesus Christ chose saint Peter the apostle to be the rock on which the church was to be built so the first 'pope' was
- Peter from the day Christ called him Rock -c. 64
- Linus c. 67-76/79
- Anacletus 76-88 or 79-91
- Clement I 88-97 or 92-101
- Evaristus c. 97-c. 107
- Alexander I 105-115 or 109-119
- Sixtus I c. 115-c. 125
- Telesphorus c. 125-c. 136
- Hyginus c. 136-c. 140
- Pius I c. 140-155
- Anicetus c. 155-c. 166
- Soter c. 166-c. 175
- Eleutherius c. 175-189
- Victor I c. 189-199
- Zephyrinus c. 199-217
- Calixtus I (Callistus) 217?-222
- Hippolytus 217/218-235
- Urban I 222-230
- Pontian 230-235
- Anterus 235-236
- Fabian 236-250
- Cornelius 251-253
- Novatian 251
- Lucius I 253-254
- Stephen I 254-257
- Sixtus II 257-258
- Dionysius 259-268
- Felix I 269-274
- Eutychian 275-283
- Gaius 283-296
- Marcellinus 291/296-304
- Marcellus I 308-309
- Eusebius 309/310
- Miltiades (Melchiades) 311-314
- Sylvester I 314-335
- Mark 336
- Julius I 337-352
- Liberius 352-366
- Felix (II) 355-358
- Damasus I 366-384
- Ursinus 366-367
- Siricius 384-399
- Anastasius I 399-401
- Innocent I 401-417
- Zosimus 417-418
- Boniface I 418-422
- Eulalius 418-419
- Celestine I 422-432
- Sixtus III 432-440
- Leo I 440-461
- Hilary 461-468
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- Felix III (or II)2 483-492
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- Paul I 757-767
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- Philip 768
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- Valentine 827
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- John 844
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- Anastasius (Anastasius the Librarian) 855
- Nicholas I 858-867
- Adrian II 867-872
- John VIII 872-882
- Marinus I 882-884
- Adrian III 884-885
- Stephen V (or VI)3 885-891
- Formosus 891-896
- Boniface VI 896
- Stephen VI (or VII)3 896-897
- Romanus 897
- Theodore II 897
- John IX 898-900
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- Leo V 903
- Christopher 903-904
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- Lando 913-914
- John X 914-928
- Leo VI 928
- Stephen VII (or VIII)3 929-931
- John XI 931-935
- Leo VII 936-939
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- Sylvester II 999-1003
- John XVII (or XVIII)5 1003
- John XVIII (or XIX)5 1004-09
- Sergius IV 1009-12
- Gregory (VI) 1012
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- Leo IX 1049-54
- Victor II 1055-57
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- Alexander II 1061-73
- Honorius (II) 1061-72
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- Victor III 1086-87
- Urban II 1088-99
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- Theodoric 1100-02
- Albert (also called Aleric) 1102
- Sylvester (IV) 1105-11
- Gelasius II 1118-19
- Gregory (VIII) 1118-21
- Calixtus II (Callistus) 1119-24
- Honorius II 1124-30
- Celestine (II) 1124
- Innocent II 1130-43
- Anacletus (II) 1130-38
- Victor (IV) 1138
- Celestine II 1143-44
- Lucius II 1144-45
- Eugenius III 1145-53
- Anastasius IV 1153-54
- Adrian IV 1154-59
- Alexander III 1159-81
- Victor (IV) 1159-64
- Paschal (III) 1164-68
- Calixtus (III) 1168-78
- Innocent (III) 1179-80
- Lucius III 1181-85
- Urban III 1185-87
- Gregory VIII 1187
- Clement III 1187-91
- Celestine III 1191-98
- Innocent III 1198-1216
- Honorius III 1216-27
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- Celestine IV 1241
- Innocent IV 1243-54
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- Gregory X 1271-76
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- John XXI5 1276-77
- Nicholas III 1277-80
- Martin IV7 1281-85
- Honorius IV 1285-87
- Nicholas IV 1288-92
- Celestine V 1294
- Boniface VIII 1294-1303
- Benedict XI 1303-04
- Clement V (at Avignon from 1309) 1305-14
- John XXII5 (at Avignon) 1316-34
- Nicholas (V) (at Rome) 1328-30
- Benedict XII (at Avignon) 1334-42
- Clement VI (at Avignon) 1342-52
- Innocent VI (at Avignon) 1352-62
- Urban V (at Avignon) 1362-70
- Gregory XI (at Avignon, then Rome from 1377) 1370-78
- Urban VI 1378-89
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- Boniface IX 1389-1404
- Benedict (XIII) (at Avignon) 1394-1423
- Innocent VII 1404-06
- Gregory XII 1406-15
- Alexander (V) (at Bologna) 1409-10
- John (XXIII) (at Bologna) 1410-15
- Martin V7 1417-31
- Clement (VIII) 1423-29
- Eugenius IV 1431-47
- Felix (V) (also called Amadeus VIII of Savoy) 1439-49
- Nicholas V 1447-55
- Calixtus III (Callistus) 1455-58
- Pius II 1458-64
- Paul II 1464-71
- Sixtus IV 1471-84
- Innocent VIII 1484-92
- Alexander VI 1492-1503
- Pius III 1503
- Julius II 1503-13
- Leo X 1513-21
- Adrian VI 1522-23
- Clement VII 1523-34
- Paul III 1534-49
- Julius III 1550-55
- Marcellus II 1555
- Paul IV 1555-59
- Pius IV 1559-65
- Pius V 1566-72
- Gregory XIII 1572-85
- Sixtus V 1585-90
- Urban VII 1590
- Gregory XIV 1590-91
- Innocent IX 1591
- Clement VIII 1592-1605
- Leo XI 1605
- Paul V 1605-21
- Gregory XV 1621-23
- Urban VIII 1623-44
- Innocent X 1644-55
- Alexander VII 1655-67
- Clement IX 1667-69
- Clement X 1670-76
- Innocent XI 1676-89
- Alexander VIII 1689-91
- Innocent XII 1691-1700
- Clement XI 1700-21
- Innocent XIII 1721-24
- Benedict XIII 1724-30
- Clement XII 1730-40
- Benedict XIV 1740-58
- Clement XIII 1758-69
- Clement XIV 1769-74
- Pius VI 1775-99
- Pius VII 1800-23
- Leo XII 1823-29
- Pius VIII 1829-30
- Gregory XVI 1831-46
- Pius IX 1846-78
- Leo XIII 1878-1903
- Pius X 1903-14
- Benedict XV 1914-22
- Pius XI 1922-39
- Pius XII 1939-58
- John XXIII 1958-63
- Paul VI 1963-78
- John Paul I 1978
- John Paul II 1978-2005
- Benedict XVI 2005-13
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barryatlake
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Listen Metal, I'm done playing silly games with you, why don't you settle the matter and show me from the Bible what you think those Bible verses in my last post and these new verses Luke 10:16 , Matt.28:19- 20. Jesus' Church is called Catholic because it is Universal [ "universal " in Greek ] He only told His Apostles to go throughout the world and make disciples of "all nations ". Now ,it's your turn to prove your particular protestant church from the Bible
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Metal Minister
New Year, Still Old School!
Ahem, perhaps read ALL of what I asked for. I could go get a copy and paste of what the RCC claims is the list, but that's only half of what I asked for.
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I replied to precisely the portion of your post which I reproduced.
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Metal Minister
New Year, Still Old School!
Except I also asked for the quotes from each espousing the bodily assumption of Mary. Otherwise you just gave me a fallible and disputable list.
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I did not reproduce your question about the Blessed Virgin Mary.
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Metal Minister
New Year, Still Old School!
Then you basically just wasted time? Interesting, but ultimately useless, except in proving that this is an impossible feat correct?
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This reply is my last time wasting on behalf of the rabbit trail you're creating. It is off topic to this thread. Please start a new thread if you want to discuss it.
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Metal Minister
New Year, Still Old School!
Then you should talk with Barry. He began this trail when he used begging the question to "prove" the RCC was the church at Pentecost. I'm disabusing him of this error. Though it is telling that what I asked for can't be produced...so much for sacred Tradition?
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barryatlake
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Metal, you are just upset because you can not prove SS from bible or even an implicit biblical verse for your particular protestant church.I don't care if you even have a source outside the Holy Bible to prove, either sola Scriptura or the founding of your particular protestant church, just show me that information.
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