Discussion Defending self and others.

[RDKirk]

Hi,
Maybe this will help,
For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
All things, by, and of, and for God, always and everywhere.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Of course, that does not make a liar of Jesus--they will still die by the sword.

 

[YESLORDIWILL]

Hi,
Maybe this will help,
For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
All things, by, and of, and for God, always and everywhere.
LOVE,
...Mary., .... .

Romans 13:1-4, Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.


I like the way Peter says it,
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. 1 Peter 2:13-14

Of course, that does not make a liar of Jesus--they will still die by the sword.

There is a sin G266 unto death, 1 John 5:16... Do you think Jesus was telling us not to punish evildoers?

 

[Svt4Him]

And again, David didn't inquire of the Lord before killing Goliath. That doesn't mean he was just going and doing what was right in his own eyes.

David was not going into the promise land because of a promise to Moses, Abraham or Joshua, sorry that's a leap that isn't there.

We are also under a directive to not cast precious things before pigs, so if someone is hurting my kids, and it's bad enough a weapon is my only option, I'll shoot him, and if you've decided that's your time to pray with them make sure you're not in the way because God has said to look after my family, and this faith you keep talking about seems to ignore the fact that faith is also listening to what God has clearly said.

umm yes i never denied that .. the point was in reference to some one else post on side topic .and i maintain that few actually inquired of the lord before they went and bought a hand gun .. . being that 2 in all testified of doing so , the rest probably just went and did what ever was right in thier own eyes ..

but you knew that was my point earlier .

and you must remember David was acting on the earlier directive of the lord as given by both Moses and Joshua to take ,inhabit and subdue the land and their enemies .

we are under the directive to preach the gospel to all men.. not kill them . so we do not have that same God given directive which David was acting upon .

 

[Alithis]

And again, David didn't inquire of the Lord before killing Goliath. That doesn't mean he was just going and doing what was right in his own eyes.

David was not going into the promise land because of a promise to Moses, Abraham or Joshua, sorry that's a leap that isn't there.

We are also under a directive to not cast precious things before pigs, so if someone is hurting my kids, and it's bad enough a weapon is my only option, I'll shoot him, and if you've decided that's your time to pray with them make sure you're not in the way because God has said to look after my family, and this faith you keep talking about seems to ignore the fact that faith is also listening to what God has clearly said.

Going on his pattern of life and that God...said he was a man after his heart..its quite likley and more likley he did ...your trying to make a point based on an assumption. And to what end?

 

[Svt4Him]

Going on his pattern of life and that God...said he was a man after his heart..its quite likley and more likley he did ...your trying to make a point based on an assumption. And to what end?

Wrong. As you yourself pointed out, there are clear indications when David would seek God, you yourself posted the verses. I have asked where in the story, which is well laid out, did David go to pray, and you have failed to show where. I am not assuming anything, it isn't there. You need to add to the story for it to fit your view. Hmmmm....

 

[Alithis]

Wrong. As you yourself pointed out, there are clear indications when David would seek God, you yourself posted the verses. I have asked where in the story, which is well laid out, did David go to pray, and you have failed to show where. I am not assuming anything, it isn't there. You need to add to the story for it to fit your view. Hmmmm....

hha your trying to add in what i have not added ..i never even raised the point ..you did .

Your assuming he did not .. because it is not recorded that he did . yet the pattern of his life shows that he was in the habit of always praying . so you simply cannot say he did not based on that alone .. and i cannot say he did based on that alone . But i can say there is a high probability that he did ,because the scriptures show that was the type of man he was .. he always sought the lord . however we cannot say the opposite based on what the scriptures show of him.because the scriptures do not show him as a man that was negligent in seeking Gods council..

lets be honest about it ..
and add.. i really have no idea any more what your point is in regard to the Op .

 

[RDKirk]

Romans 13:1-4, Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.


I like the way Peter says it,
Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. 1 Peter 2:13-14




There is a sin G266 unto death, 1 John 5:16... Do you think Jesus was telling us not to punish evildoers?

I don't know who you mean by "us."

Jesus did not see His Body as being a member of the king's government, but as a separate entity from the king's government. The king is permitted to use the sword to keep order in his nation, and the king will die by that sword just as Jesus said.

To us--that is, the Body of Christ, Jesus said:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil.

If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

And the citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven do not use the sword to keep order in our own ranks. So it depends, I guess, on what nation you consider yourself a citizen of. But Jesus does not recognized dual-citizenship:

They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Our citizenship is in Heaven.

 

[Alithis]

I don't know who you mean by "us."

Jesus did not see His Body as being a member of the king's government, but as a separate entity from the king's government. The king is permitted to use the sword to keep order in his nation, and the king will die by that sword just as Jesus said.

To us--that is, the Body of Christ, Jesus said:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil.

If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.

“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

And the citizens of the Kingdom of Heaven do not use the sword to keep order in our own ranks. So it depends, I guess, on what nation you consider yourself a citizen of. But Jesus does not recognized dual-citizenship:

They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world.
Our citizenship is in Heaven.

yup

 

[James Is Back]

Mod Hat On

Thread has undergone a cleanup due to off topic posts so if your post is gone that is the reason. I will remind everyone to stick to the topic at hand and not go off topic please.

Mod Hat Off​

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Thank you!

I have been blaming myself and God for a bit. I blame myself for not being there to protect her. If only I was there, I could have done something to prevent it from ever happening.

Jesus has taken all that blame on Himself. By taking the blame, you are grave robbing. Your blame was buried with Christ. Also, taking the blame is stealing from Jesus, because He paid the price for it. So give Him back what belongs to Him! Then, because with every negative there is a promise and a provision, ask God this question: "What you do want to be for me that You couldn't be for me before all this happened?" You will be overjoyed with the answer that God brings to you. I believe that God will show you how good He is by pouring out from a great big container of goodness and kindness on your life. You will see that God does not blame you, and He will wrap His arms of love and grace around you and you will feel a deep and abiding peace in Him.