DATING: ARE WE GETTING IT RIGHT?

[CCHIPSS]

Gomer is such an extreme that it would probably require developing codependency or some other such disorder to seriously consider marrying someone like that. Furthermore, let's switch things up a bit, making the sinner the male and making the sin physical abuse. Should someone enter marriage ready to forgive that again and again until she dies, possibly at his own hand? No. She needs to pick a better man than that. Likewise, men need to pick better women than that. I get what you're saying about the importance of forgiving and how we need to have an attitude of forgiveness, but that's not the way to emphasize it. I think of my parents bearing with each other for years, even though each other's sins come up regularly. And how even though they drive each other absolutely up the wall sometimes, the same way, as they have for many years, they're not letting that end their marriage because they still love each other. That's how I approach it.

As potential spouses, to me? Yes. As members of the Body? Absolutely not. It seems you're conflating these two.

If a partner is really abusing the others, then the two should separate. And if the abuser refuse to change, then perhaps a divorce cannot be avoided.

While it wasn't written clearly that a divorce due to abuse is allowed, I think the church need to look at the heart of the abuser. In some cases it is clear that the abuser hates his/her spouse. They are only staying because they view their spouse as a toy that they can come home to abuse every day. Their spouse is their twisted entertainment. Their actions are worst than them just saying "Let's divorce." If proven (as in their spouse wasn't lying about the abuse), the church should encourage such divorces and even contact the police and social services. And if that abuser goes to church he/she should be removed from the congregation. God calls us to love. So we have no place for an abuser, who absolutely refuse to change, in our churches.

As for these women being useless to you as a spouse, yes that is ok. These women would be useless to me as a spouse too. But shouldn't we try to help her to link with other men? Perhaps one of such men will be called by God to romantically love her? Let us get these women back on their feet instead of throwing stones at her.

 

[Sketcher]

Why don't/can't we feel compassion toward these women? That's my question. Why don't we ask "How can we help her?" instead of saying "She is getting what she deserved, a nursing home."

I'm not saying that anything better than a nursing home mustn't be done. I'm just saying the "who will take care of her" question has a perfectly acceptable answer.

If proven (as in their spouse wasn't lying about the abuse), the church should encourage such divorces and even contact the police and social services. And if that abuser goes to church he/she should be removed from the congregation. God calls us to love. So we have no place for an abuser, who absolutely refuse to change, in our churches.

Adultery is abuse of the heart.

As for these women being useless to you as a spouse, yes that is ok. These women would be useless to me as a spouse too. But shouldn't we try to help her to link with other men? Perhaps one of such men will be called by God to romantically love her? Let us get these women back on their feet instead of throwing stones at her.

I'm not throwing any stones here. If she's repentant, then yes help her get back on her feet - there's discipleship training for that, which is most appropriately done in a same-sex context. I hope you're not thinking of getting these women back on their feet as getting them a man. Much of the time, women such that you have described were never really on their feet, and used men as crutches. Moving her to being a full person away from relationships would be far more important. Not only that, but if I don't think a woman is together enough for me to date her, why would I recommend her to any of my friends?

 

[William67]

I am not at all shaming those that are staying virgin before marriage. This is a very hard achievement in today's world and I am very proud of them. If I spoke against virginity I would indeed by making good into evil. But I wasn't speaking against virginity at all.

I would agree that God said the ideal marriage is between two virgins. However I don't think God commended us to marry virgins only. Because if that was the case then Hosea would have actually sinned for marrying Gomer, who was clearly not a virgin. Not even close.

So from my understanding here is God's commended to Hosea. And to a certain extend this is his commend to all of us. =)

1) Keep yourself a virgin until marriage. This is a commend for yourself, not for you to be judgmental against God's appointed wife Gomer to you.
2) If you fail, ask God for forgiveness and he will forgive you. And then sin no more. Forgive yourself of what your God has already forgiven you for.
3) Forgive your Christian wife Gomer for her past sins. Your God has forgiven her. Wash and cleanse her with the Words of God.
4) Forgive your Christian wife Gomer for her future sins and broken promises. Your God has forgiven her. Wash and cleanse her with the Words of God.

If your wife commits adultery, and you forgive her, then she does it again, and you forgive her, and she does it again, ad infinitum. Do you know what they call a guy like that? They call him a sucker because his wife is playing him and never had any respect for him or the marriage.

And of course, the person who didn't become a Christian until after they lost their virginity is being forgotten. Before meeting Jesus, they were not held to the same standard as a professing Christian...and at salvation, that sin as well as every other one was forgiven by Christ...and what is forgiven and washed clean by Christ, who are we to hold against a person.

And do "sexual sins" that are sins committed again ones own body only include those that involve two people ... or can they also involve self touch, things we have looked at, and things we have thought about? I really don't want to discuss this but want to put it forth as something to think about.

And since God allows widows to marry, "being a virgin" is not a requirement for entering into a godly marriage. So for someone who is a real stickler for the law, the limitation is sex outside of marriage. And if our God is a just God, then the truth would be "consensual" sex outside of marriage because I cannot believe that a person (male or female) is considered "sinful" after being an innocent victim of a sexual assault of any type.

No one has a problem with widows.

 

[blackribbon]

No one has a problem with widows? But why? We are "used" sexually. We are not "fresh" meat sexually. If a woman who made a single bad decision when she thought she was in love and was deceived into thinking that the encounter was part of a lifelong relationship is undesirable and dirty sexually, why would a woman who has had literally years of regular sexual experience be less of a threat to a virginal man? I don't get the logic. Yes, God allows and encourages widows to remarry, especially if they are very sexual....but God also forgives any sin that is laid before Him in genuine repentance and promises to wash it "white as snow".

Isaiah 1:18 (NIV)
“Come now, let us settle the matter,”
says the Lord.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.

Is the problem the state of ones' sin life or the fact they aren't virginal (or "used") the real issue?

 

[SnowyMacie]

This is numbered in accordance with your sections...

1) Definitely agree. Sexual immorality is not some kind of unforgivable sin, and shouldn't be treated any differently than other sins. I think churches places too high of an emphasis on sexual sin, and as a result it creates bad situations where many either become afraid of sex or completely go off the deep end. There is nothing wrong with wanting your husband/wife to be a virgin when you marry, but you still need to forgive people for what they have done and not think less of them.

2) Also, agree. People need to learn self-control, and that's never going to happen if we think two Christians should never be in the same room alone together before they are married. Not only that, I also don't know how we can expect sucessful marriages when we don't let couples decide things for themselves, but insist they constantly told to get advice from pastors and parents. They won't know how each other deals with conflicts if they've never dealt with it in each other. I remember seeing a post on here from a 29 year-old who still sought after dating advice and guidance from his parents, to me, what's disturbing about that is we're not teaching people how to work out problems on their own and creating a sense of dependency on pastors and pastors.

3) Also agree.

 

[CCHIPSS]

I'm not saying that anything better than a nursing home mustn't be done. I'm just saying the "who will take care of her" question has a perfectly acceptable answer.


Adultery is abuse of the heart.


I'm not throwing any stones here. If she's repentant, then yes help her get back on her feet - there's discipleship training for that, which is most appropriately done in a same-sex context. I hope you're not thinking of getting these women back on their feet as getting them a man. Much of the time, women such that you have described were never really on their feet, and used men as crutches. Moving her to being a full person away from relationships would be far more important. Not only that, but if I don't think a woman is together enough for me to date her, why would I recommend her to any of my friends?

I understand you now. Yes in some cases perhaps the lady is not ready for another relationship. We should first help her back on her feet and become a full person. Then after she is ready we can introduce her to other men.

In some cases she will never be ready. Then perhaps nursing home will be the only answer.

In the better cases the lady will be spiritually filled by Jesus. She will become a new person and she has been removed from her past. In these cases let the church help her in finding a spouse. Let's show her compassion and mercy just as Jesus has shown us. =)

 

[CCHIPSS]

If your wife commits adultery, and you forgive her, then she does it again, and you forgive her, and she does it again, ad infinitum. Do you know what they call a guy like that? They call him a sucker because his wife is playing him and never had any respect for him or the marriage.

But at the dating stage we cannot assume that she, with a bad past, will definitely cheat on the guy. In Jesus everyone is made a new creation. We cannot look at her past and say she will do it again.

Even virgin-virgin marriage might end up in cheating and divorce. No one saw that coming.

Now I do believe that marriage is a blessing and a calling. We have to be called into marriage through many life events. Once again I am not calling everyone to go marry a Gomer to prove a point. No that is not what I am saying at all. Because that has a special calling from God.

I am saying if God clearly calls you to marry a lady with a bad past, are you ready to obey God? If not think about it and figure out why. Is this due to pride? Is this due to fear of her cheating?

And once again most Christians will end up marrying average spouses. They will most likely have an average sinful past and average sinful future. But let's say if she does cheat in the future, will you be mad at God? If you will be mad, is your faith in your wife or in God? Think about these now because they are healthy for your spiritual growth, even if this never happen to you.

 

[redblue22]

I actually think there are a certain type people in this world who have no problem marrying Gomer type of ladies. These are non-believing player types of men. They are those who had a ton of sex before their marriage. So they don't expect their partner to be anything close to being pure.

Why did these non-believing sinners forgive Gomer? Because they themselves are terrible sinners and so they don't expect anything better.

Why are Christians, who are forgiven of their sins and tries to live purely, have a much harder time forgiving Gomer's than those playboy type of men? Must we fall into the same level of those terrible sinners to forgive Gomer's? Why are sinner able to forgive better, due to their sin, than Christians can due to grace and mercy from God?

I am not saying every Christian is called to marry a Gomer. But I am almost certain there are cases where some of us are called to marry a lady with a very dark past. Does her dark past hinder us? What if we see many other signs from God that she is the one?

As singles, should we consider the possibility that God might bring us a Gomer? Will we be able to forgive her and wash her in the Word of God? Is this growing spiritually?
=)

So if I have a Gomer girl, I must be a nonbelieving player? Why can I forgive? Again, something is wrong with me: I'm a terrible sinner and don't expect better. But Christians have a hard time forgiving. Have you considered that maybe Christians don't think they are terrible sinners? You act like you are not a Gomer yourself. I certainly hope there are some Christians who will be happy with a Gomer, because I am one. Would my woman only want me because she is a nonbelieving player? oh no! God might bring me a Gomer redblue! But thank her lucky stars that no lady has to marry me. She can wash me in the word of God--whatever that means.

Why not just tell them to stop because it is the wrong thing to do? That it hurts both yourself and your partner?

I too find it hard to have compassion for these Gomers. I found that my natural tendency is to view them as "lessor" human beings. But then I stopped to question myself about it.

I know this lady who spent her young days with this terrible guy who abused her. But she gave him everything. Now that relationship is over and her best years are spent. I don't think she is even in the childbearing age any more. But after that she had been dating guys that are much younger than she is. Maybe part of her wants to recapture her lost youth. My first thought is to keep her away from me. But then I had to stop and question: Who will take care of her?

Should I feel compassionate toward those who "wasted" their best years with the wrong guy? Or should I rub it in and say "too bad justice is served"?

But sometimes I think maybe I (or the church) should figure out a way to link her to other Christian men of her age (more realistic). Maybe a Christian man is called by God to take care of a "Gomer" like her? Just to give her a chance that kind of thing.
=)

You should listen to yourself. You really think you are great. You want justice served for yourself? Get what you deserved? And her best years are wasted? Should you feel compassion?

Why don't/can't we feel compassion toward these women? That's my question. Why don't we ask "How can we help her?" instead of saying "She is getting what she deserved, a nursing home."

I can still ask "how can I help her?" Maybe that means finding ways to introduce her to more Christian men. Perhaps one of these men will love and marry her. Even if I do not love her romantically, perhaps I can still help her as a sister in Christ to find her husband.

Once again I am not called to marry such women. I know for a fact I won't be able to do it. So no I am not calling you or anyone here to do that. I understand that it takes a special kind of man to romantically love a Gomer as a wife. What I am calling all of us to do is to have compassion and love these woman as sisters in Christ. We, as the church, should help these women.

You've made it clear you aren't "called" to marry "such women." What do you want to help her become? In your own words here, you see "such women" as "other," and you don't identify with them. Why is that?

 

[CCHIPSS]

So if I have a Gomer girl, I must be a nonbelieving player? Why can I forgive? Again, something is wrong with me: I'm a terrible sinner and don't expect better. But Christians have a hard time forgiving. Have you considered that maybe Christians don't think they are terrible sinners? You act like you are not a Gomer yourself. I certainly hope there are some Christians who will be happy with a Gomer, because I am one. Would my woman only want me because she is a nonbelieving player? oh no! God might bring me a Gomer redblue! But thank her lucky stars that no lady has to marry me. She can wash me in the word of God--whatever that means.




You should listen to yourself. You really think you are great. You want justice served for yourself? Get what you deserved? And her best years are wasted? Should you feel compassion?




You've made it clear you aren't "called" to marry "such women." What do you want to help her become? In your own words here, you see "such women" as "other," and you don't identify with them. Why is that?

I really do not understand your post. I am telling everyone that Christians should be more forgiving of the Gomers. All Christians are indeed sinners. Since Christians were forgiven by God, they should go forgive Gomers.

Even if one weren't called to marry a Gomer, he should help her forgive herself and grow in Jesus. And once she is ready, he should help her find a spouse.

 

[redblue22]

someone mentioned codependency. what is interesting is that codependency is a form of helping relationship. so, for example, there is one person who is in need of help. And there is one person who wants to help them. The problem is that the one doing the helping often knocks down the one needing the help.

 

[William67]

No one has a problem with widows? But why? We are "used" sexually. We are not "fresh" meat sexually. If a woman who made a single bad decision when she thought she was in love and was deceived into thinking that the encounter was part of a lifelong relationship is undesirable and dirty sexually, why would a woman who has had literally years of regular sexual experience be less of a threat to a virginal man? I don't get the logic. Yes, God allows and encourages widows to remarry, especially if they are very sexual....but God also forgives any sin that is laid before Him in genuine repentance and promises to wash it "white as snow".

Isaiah 1:18 (NIV)
“Come now, let us settle the matter,”
says the Lord.
“Though your sins are like scarlet,
they shall be as white as snow;
though they are red as crimson,
they shall be like wool.

Is the problem the state of ones' sin life or the fact they aren't virginal (or "used") the real issue?

You cant separate the issue. Once you have had sex, you cant tell if you've been with 1 person or 100.

Most of the women I know aren't new to Christianity. It wasn't as if they had lived their entire lives never hearing about God and repentance and sin. In fact, I don't know anyone who hasn't been in church all their lives.

I don't know of a single woman, over the age of 20, who has had only 1 sexual partner, if they aren't virgins. So, they knew when they had sex they were sinning. They fully understood the implications of the act.

Now, the difference between a promiscuous woman and a widow is that the widow lost her virginity through a righteous act. In other words, it wasn't a sin. Unless of course she was promiscuous before the marriage.

For me personally, it is the thought of all those other men. If I married a woman, who had committed the sin of fornication before she met me, I wouldn't be able to get the thought of all those other men out of my mind. It is the fact that she had been with those men, though immoral acts, that I would find disgusting. The marriage wouldn't last because it is not something I could just "get over".

I don't know if you can understand this, but if she was a widow, I wouldn't find that disgusting. Simply because she had lost her virginity in a moral way.

 

[William67]

But at the dating stage we cannot assume that she, with a bad past, will definitely cheat on the guy. In Jesus everyone is made a new creation. We cannot look at her past and say she will do it again.

Even virgin-virgin marriage might end up in cheating and divorce. No one saw that coming.

Now I do believe that marriage is a blessing and a calling. We have to be called into marriage through many life events. Once again I am not calling everyone to go marry a Gomer to prove a point. No that is not what I am saying at all. Because that has a special calling from God.

I am saying if God clearly calls you to marry a lady with a bad past, are you ready to obey God? If not think about it and figure out why. Is this due to pride? Is this due to fear of her cheating?

And once again most Christians will end up marrying average spouses. They will most likely have an average sinful past and average sinful future. But let's say if she does cheat in the future, will you be mad at God? If you will be mad, is your faith in your wife or in God? Think about these now because they are healthy for your spiritual growth, even if this never happen to you.

So far, I have not been called by God to marry a "Gomer". And if God commanded me to marry someone like that then I would marry her.

The one thing that no one has yet to consider is that God made me this way. All the events in my life, leading up to this point, have led me to this belief. Much of my early Christian education came from two women. And God clearly said that fornication is a sin. Has everyone obeyed God?

When my mother and grandmother were young and "dating", they were allowed to date in two places. One was the front porch. The other was church. A date consisted of either inviting a boyfriend over for dinner and then sitting on the front porch, in plain view of everyone, or it was attending church services together. That was it. My grandparents eloped, but her brother went along...and he was armed. If my grandfather had tried to take my grandmother somewhere, except directly to a minister or JP, he would have paid dearly for it. The first time my parents got to actually be alone together was after they were married. Unfortunately, society has now devolved into a "if it feels good, do it, and hang the consequences" mentality.

 

[redblue22]

I really do not understand your post. I am telling everyone that Christians should be more forgiving of the Gomers. All Christians are indeed sinners. Since Christians were forgiven by God, they should go forgive Gomers.

Even if one weren't called to marry a Gomer, he should help her forgive herself and grow in Jesus. And once she is ready, he should help her find a spouse.

I think I was pretty clear. And if someone wants to read what you actually said, they can just scroll up.

 

[redblue22]

I actually think there are a certain type people in this world who have no problem marrying Gomer type of ladies. These are non-believing player types of men. They are those who had a ton of sex before their marriage. So they don't expect their partner to be anything close to being pure.

Why did these non-believing sinners forgive Gomer? Because they themselves are terrible sinners and so they don't expect anything better.

Why are Christians, who are forgiven of their sins and tries to live purely, have a much harder time forgiving Gomer's than those playboy type of men? Must we fall into the same level of those terrible sinners to forgive Gomer's? Why are sinner able to forgive better, due to their sin, than Christians can due to grace and mercy from God?

(Now I don't personally have high hopes in such marriages. Statistics has clearly shown that the more sex someone has before marriage, the higher chance for a divorce down the road.

I am not saying every Christian is called to marry a Gomer. But I am almost certain there are cases where some of us are called to marry a lady with a very dark past. Does her dark past hinder us? What if we see many other signs from God that she is the one?

As singles, should we consider the possibility that God might bring us a Gomer? Will we be able to forgive her and wash her in the Word of God? Is this growing spiritually?

Oh no I wasn't assuming all Christian ladies are like Gomer. Yes I do believe in the transforming power of Jesus. In fact I had heard many stories of such transformation.

And yes Gomer is an extreme case. My point here is that God might call us to love and forgive someone with very bad pasts. And after marriage God might call us to forgive our spouse for future sins (which we couldn't see earlier). Are we spiritually mature enough to forgive them? Remember that our source of love and forgiveness come not from within ourselves, but from Jesus.

Now most likely we would end up with an average spouse. That is they sinned averagely before they met us and they will sin averagely after marriage. But if we mentally prepare ourselves now, as singles, to forgive even the likes of Gomer we will be ready to forgive our average spouse. So thinking of Gomer is for our own good. Think about these now because they are healthy for your spiritual growth, even if this never happen to you.

But if we think of Gomer's past and we say nope I won't forgive her, we should ask ourselves why. And if we think of Gomer's future and we say nope I won't forgive her, we should ask ourselves why. Is Rahab and Mary Magdalene(thanks for bring her up^^), who was a sinner and then changed, also worthless to us?

I too find it hard to have compassion for these Gomers. I found that my natural tendency is to view them as "lessor" human beings. But then I stopped to question myself about it.

I know this lady who spent her young days with this terrible guy who abused her. But she gave him everything. Now that relationship is over and her best years are spent. I don't think she is even in the childbearing age any more. But after that she had been dating guys that are much younger than she is. Maybe part of her wants to recapture her lost youth. My first thought is to keep her away from me. But then I had to stop and question: Who will take care of her?

As for these women being useless to you as a spouse, yes that is ok. These women would be useless to me as a spouse too. But shouldn't we try to help her to link with other men? Perhaps one of such men will be called by God to romantically love her? Let us get these women back on their feet instead of throwing stones at her.

Should I feel compassionate toward those who "wasted" their best years with the wrong guy? Or should I rub it in and say "too bad justice is served"?

Now I am not saying I will start dating her. I am not ready for that nor was I called. But sometimes I think maybe I (or the church) should figure out a way to link her to other Christian men of her age (more realistic). Maybe a Christian man is called by God to take care of a "Gomer" like her? Just to give her a chance that kind of thing.

Why don't/can't we feel compassion toward these women? Why don't we ask "How can we help her?" instead of saying "She is getting what she deserved, a nursing home."

I can still ask "how can I help her?" Maybe that means finding ways to introduce her to more Christian men. Perhaps one of these men will love and marry her. Even if I do not love her romantically, perhaps I can still help her as a sister in Christ to find her husband.

Once again I am not called to marry such women. I know for a fact I won't be able to do it. So no I am not calling you or anyone here to do that. I understand that it takes a special kind of man to romantically love a Gomer as a wife. What I am calling all of us to do is to have compassion and love these woman as sisters in Christ. We, as the church, should help these women

Yes in some cases perhaps the lady is not ready for another relationship. We should first help her back on her feet and become a full person. Then after she is ready we can introduce her to other men.

In some cases she will never be ready. Then perhaps nursing home will be the only answer.

In the better cases the lady will be spiritually filled by Jesus. She will become a new person and she has been removed from her past. In these cases let the church help her in finding a spouse. Let's show her compassion and mercy just as Jesus has shown us.

I am not calling everyone to go marry a Gomer to prove a point. No that is not what I am saying at all. Because that has a special calling from God.

I am saying if God clearly calls you to marry a lady with a bad past, are you ready to obey God? If not think about it and figure out why. Is this due to pride? Is this due to fear of her cheating?

And once again most Christians will end up marrying average spouses. They will most likely have an average sinful past and average sinful future.

I highlighted a few spots I thought might be interesting for others to take note.

 

[keith99]

Really...most of you men haven't been called by God to marry any woman...Gomer or otherwise or else you wouldn't be in the singles section. You really don't know who God is going to call you to marry.

And it sounds like the problem with marrying a non-virgin isn't really the woman, but the man's inability to love unconditionally. If you ever feel passion toward a woman, and the only thing you can think about is what other men she has been with instead of "how can I protect this woman and keep her to myself", then you are in a very selfish relationship. I suspect it is more a fear that you won't "measure up" than anything else. Will you be just as jealous of her lips that other people may have kissed (including that boy in 5th grade that surprised her and totally grossed her out...or her grandma who likes lip kissing?) Will you be just as jealous of her having held hands with another man at some time? It is just a body part. It doesn't get "worn out" and unless she is crawling into your bed from another's it is even different skin you will be touching since we shed our skin on a regular basis, layer by layer. So the issue you have is really with her brain...and the fact that she was "connect" to another man at one time or another...and this can happen with a virgin too. Some women and men are simply virgins because they haven't had any opportunity to be tempted...or maybe the idea of sex is repulsive....so they may not be as honorable as you assume.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind here but just know, if you pick one area to judge others, don't be surprise if the other person finds some area of your life to judge you....and finds you wanting. Sex is sex. It is a great part of marriage. It is the part that connects to married people, but it isn't something holy or something that identifies a person's character to the level that so many of you are putting it. For all those of you who are wanting to marry a virgin, you may have missed the boat by not getting married when you were young enough to be around women who hadn't been used up and spit out by other men of your gender. And the older you get, the smaller the field of available women because believe it or not, it is your gender that takes their virginity away from them when they are most vulnerable....most women have sex because they believe they are "in love" and think they are going to build a life with the man...most men can't say the same thing. Honestly, a huge sector of women don't even like sex because men turn it into a chore and an obligation after they get married...something we owe them. So if a woman has made it to 40 as a virgin who actually even thinks much about sex, you better be able to perform perfectly because her expectations on what the experience is going to be like is most likely unrealistic....like the fireworks that she sees in movies and reads about in books...not the reality that is two people clumsily learning how to fit together both in the bed and in the rest of their lives. The other side is woman who never had any desire to have sex...and that isn't going to change because of a ring and a commitment.

Bolding mine.

You are too kind. I'm serious, loving unconditionally is difficult. Accepting that you are not the first is not. Note I did not say forgiving as I see nothing to forgive unless deception is involved.

 

[blackribbon]

Bolding mine.

You are too kind. I'm serious, loving unconditionally is difficult. Accepting that you are not the first is not. Note I did not say forgiving as I see nothing to forgive unless deception is involved.

Don't marry anyone you can't love unconditionally or pretty close to it...otherwise, your marriage is doomed before it starts. Your spouse isn't perfect and will make mistakes ... as will you. Life seldom hands us what we expect or think we deserve ... and only unconditional love will carry a marriage through some of those very hard times. If we are getting married to make ourselves happy, we have the wrong purpose. Marriage is about denying oneself and serving another...it is about doing our best to make the other one happy and if we have chosen wisely, they will be trying to do the same thing for us.

 

[keith99]

Don't marry anyone you can't love unconditionally or pretty close to it...otherwise, your marriage is doomed before it starts. Your spouse isn't perfect and will make mistakes ... as will you. Life seldom hands us what we expect or think we deserve ... and only unconditional love will carry a marriage through some of those very hard times. If we are getting married to make ourselves happy, we have the wrong purpose. Marriage is about denying oneself and serving another...it is about doing our best to make the other one happy and if we have chosen wisely, they will be trying to do the same thing for us.

I disagree. I know which things I cannot deal with, I know the conditions. I'll also say I know I can forgive things most Christians cannot without blinking an eye.

 

[blackribbon]

I disagree. I know which things I cannot deal with, I know the conditions. I'll also say I know I can forgive things most Christians cannot without blinking an eye.

What things are we allowed not to forgive each other for? I suspect that as Christians, we have to forgive anything God is willing to forgive.... If you can't love big enough to forgive, don't get married. That is simple enough.

 

[CCHIPSS]

someone mentioned codependency. what is interesting is that codependency is a form of helping relationship. so, for example, there is one person who is in need of help. And there is one person who wants to help them. The problem is that the one doing the helping often knocks down the one needing the help.

Very good point and we often fall for this. I think there is a difference between "noticing someone's sin" and "looking down on someone because of their sin".

In my view it is not wrong to "notice someone's sin". Jesus notice people's sins many times during his ministry. It is not wrong to point them out. That's how we Christians correct each other out of love.

However it is wrong and evil to "look down on someone because of their sin". That is we view them as less valuable or even as lessor human beings. We might even take advantage of their weakness and situation. Instead we should feel compassionate because Jesus feels compassion toward these sinners.

But it is a very thin line here between good and evil. "Noticing" and change into "looking down on" very quickly. Or we can slide into it gradually, so slowly that we didn't even notice.

 

[CCHIPSS]

So far, I have not been called by God to marry a "Gomer". And if God commanded me to marry someone like that then I would marry her.

The one thing that no one has yet to consider is that God made me this way. All the events in my life, leading up to this point, have led me to this belief. Much of my early Christian education came from two women. And God clearly said that fornication is a sin. Has everyone obeyed God?

When my mother and grandmother were young and "dating", they were allowed to date in two places. One was the front porch. The other was church. A date consisted of either inviting a boyfriend over for dinner and then sitting on the front porch, in plain view of everyone, or it was attending church services together. That was it. My grandparents eloped, but her brother went along...and he was armed. If my grandfather had tried to take my grandmother somewhere, except directly to a minister or JP, he would have paid dearly for it. The first time my parents got to actually be alone together was after they were married. Unfortunately, society has now devolved into a "if it feels good, do it, and hang the consequences" mentality.

Yes I understand where you are coming from. Yes back in your grandparents' and parents' (GP&P) day things were more strict. And yes it is true that your GP&P married as virgins. However we cannot say that your GP&P are more holy than anyone today. Because their situations were different from today.

They weren't put into today's world where dating without supervision is the norm. If your GP&P were put into today's situation, can you guarantee that your GP&P will marry as virgins? Can you guarantee that your GP&P can resist the temptations that many Christians faces today, through the highschools, sororities, media sex scenes, inappropriate content addictions and date rape drugs, etc? Now I am not saying they won't be able to resist. However I am saying that the situation today just weren't the same as before.

It is true that our world is falling deeper and deeper into darkness. This should be no surprise to us given what was written in Revelation. Sin would happen more and more often, more and more serious. Am I saying we should just throw in the towel and give up? Should we just be disappointed and despair? Nope! I am saying our love, grace, mercy and compassion must grow as the depth of sin grows in this world.

The world will indeed sin more. And so we must love more. The darker the world gets, and it will get darker, the brighter the light of the world will shrine through that darkness.

It will be harder and harder for Christians to marry virgins, or even to remain virgin themselves. When our grandchildren look at us in the year 2056, they will say we had it easy in the year 2016. And so I say to this generation and the generations after us, we must learn to forgive ourselves and forgive others more than ever before.