Darby vs Luther, Calvin, Tyndale, Wesley, et al

Douggg

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Douggg in post #11:
<< What the apostles did not write about was the Antichrist being the king of the north. >>




So when you see standing in the holy place the abomination that causes desolation, spoken of through the prophet Daniel&#8212;Let the reader understand&#8212;then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.
--Matthew 24: 15-16 NIV


What is Jesus referring to?


[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]28 [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The king of the North will return to his own country with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant. He will take action against it and then return to his own country.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]29 &#8220;At the appointed time he will invade the South again, but this time the outcome will be different from what it was before. 30 Ships of the western coastlands will oppose him, and he will lose heart. Then he will turn back and vent his fury against the holy covenant. He will return and show favor to those who forsake the holy covenant.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]31 &#8220;His armed forces will rise up to desecrate the temple fortress and will abolish the daily sacrifice. Then they will set up the abomination that causes desolation.[/FONT]
--Daniel 11:28-31 NIV



&#8220;The King of the North&#8221; is followed by &#8220;his,&#8221; &#8220;He,&#8221; &#8220;his,&#8221; &#8220;him,&#8221; &#8220;he,&#8221; &#8220;he,&#8221; &#8220;his,&#8221; &#8220;He,&#8221; &#8220;His,&#8221; and &#8220;They.&#8221; No other persons are identified. There is no king or ruler of Israel, Judah, or Judea in this passage.

There is not mention of the king of Israel in the passages of the end times in Daniel 11 because the Antichrist (the willful king in Daniel 11:36) will have already run through that stage of being the perceived King of Israel, son David messiah.

In Daniel 11:36, he is into his fall, becoming the Antichrist-beast. He will be relying on his ten king base of the EU for his army. Those are the ten kings in Revelation 17, that give their kingdom to him.

Regarding the Abomination of Desolation, I think we look at the historic act of Antiochus
Epiphanes of placing a statue of Zeus in the temple as a typology of what the future Abomination of Desolation will be.

We don't get to the end times Antichrist until Daniel 11:36. And even then it is well into his career, after his fall from being the perceived King of Israel, son of David, hoped for, to having entered his Antichrist-beast stage.

All those he's and him's, in Daniel 11:36-44, is about the Antichrist-beast. It doesn't say which direction he is king of, but based on other prophecies, it is that he will be the king of the West.

The thing to keep in mind is that in the end times, the Kings of the north, south, east, west are global powers because all the nations are involved that brings them into the middle east - for Armageddon to take place.


 
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mark kennedy

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Irenaeus said:

“And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: ‘And in the midst of the week,’ he says, ‘the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete.’Now three years and six months constitute the half-week.” (“Against Heresies”, Book V, chapter 25, paragraph 4.)

Hyppolytus wrote:

“For after sixty-two weeks was fulfilled and after Christ has come and the Gospel has been preached in every place, times having been spun out, the end remains one week away, in which Elijah and Enoch shall be present and in its half the abomination of desolation, the Antichrist, shall appear who threatens desolation of the world. After he comes, sacrifice and drink offering, which now in every way is offered by the nations to God, shall be taken away.” (“Commentary on Daniel”, by Hyppolytus, Book 4, chapter 35, paragraph 3. From the translation by T. C. Schmidt. - available online at http://www.chronicon.net.)

That is a major distinguishing feature, it actually happens about half way through the Revelation.

they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, (Rev. 11:3)​

The sounding of the Seventh Trumpet immediately follows. This begins what has become known as the Great Tribulation.

Grace and peace,
Mark
 
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Bible2

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Douggg said in post 31:

Gog/Magog immediately precedes the 70th week.

The Gog/Magog attack on Israel (Ezekiel chapters 38-39) won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10), when there will be no defensive walls or fear of attack in Israel whatsoever (Ezekiel 38:11). This is the exact opposite of today's situation, when Israel is filled with very high defensive walls and is in constant fear of attack. At the beginning of the millennium all present-day weapons of war throughout the world will be destroyed and they won't be allowed to be remade during the millennium (Micah 4:3-4). That's why after the millennium the Gog/Magog armies will employ only rudimentary, wooden weapons like bows and arrows, spears, shields, and clubs (Ezekiel 39:9), which, after the defeat of the Gog/Magog armies, will be able to be used as convenient firewood by the people living in Israel at that time, instead of them having to go out and collect or cut down firewood from the forest (Ezekiel 39:10).

The Gog in Revelation 20:8 is the same as in Ezekiel chapters 38-39: an individual human whose personal name is "Gog" (Ezekiel 38:3). He will be the chief leader of a future country which will form somewhere north of Israel (Ezekiel 39:2, Ezekiel 38:15) and will be called "Magog" (Ezekiel 38:2). It will include at least two major cities and/or tribes which will be called "Meshech" and "Tubal" (Ezekiel 38:2). This country could come into existence during the millennium. Gog could be born near the end of the millennium, and he will be killed and buried at the end of the Gog/Magog event (Ezekiel 39:11).

Both accounts of the event show that the Gog/Magog armies will ultimately be completely defeated by miraculous fire from heaven (Ezekiel 38:22, Revelation 20:9). While the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15) will occur subsequent to the Gog/Magog event (Revelation 20:7-15), nothing requires (as is sometimes claimed) that the great white throne judgment has to happen immediately after that event. For there will be at least 7 years (Ezekiel 39:9b) between the end of that event and the great white throne judgment.

Also, the Gog/Magog attack won't have to (as is sometimes claimed) involve only the nations listed in Ezekiel chapters 38-39. Those nations could be just a sampling. For the "nations" (ethnos), or peoples, who will be involved in the Gog/Magog attack will come from all over the earth (Revelation 20:8). They will still be physically part of Jesus' worldwide kingdom, still legally under his rule, just as they had been during the preceding millennium (Psalms 72:8-11, Psalms 66:3, Psalms 2). But after the millennium they will be deceived by Satan into committing the attack (Revelation 20:7-10).

Also, while the Gog/Magog attack on Israel won't occur until after the future millennium (Revelation 20:7-10, Ezekiel chapters 38-39), Israel could suffer a different attack before the millennium, at the start of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, which attack could result in Israel's total defeat and occupation (Daniel 11:15-17).

And Jerusalem could be attacked in the future at least 3 times before the millennium: once near the start of the future tribulation (Daniel 11:22), then again mid-tribulation (Daniel 11:31), and then at the tribulation's end (Daniel 11:45), right before Jesus' 2nd coming and the start of the millennium (Zechariah 14:2-21).

*******

Douggg said in post 34:

I have shown repeatedly on this board, the the confirmation of the covenant "for" 7 years in Daniel 9:27 to be the Deuteronomy 31:10-11 requirement.

Deuteronomy 31:10-11 refers only to the reading of the Old Covenant Mosaic law as given in the entire book of Deuteronomy (Deuteronomy 31:12b, Deuteronomy 28:58, Deuteronomy 27:26, Nehemiah 8), and only "at the end" of 7 years, meaning at the end of every 7 years, and only while the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was still in effect (it was abolished on the Cross: Ephesians 2:15-16).

Note that this has nothing to do with Daniel 9:27a, which includes reference to one, particular, future, man-made peace treaty/covenant (Daniel 9:26a, Daniel 11:22-23a) being confirmed at the start of one particular, future, 7-year period.

Douggg said in post 34:

Daniel 39:17-20, Daniel is told to prophesy about a second feast, the Armageddon feast, a comparison with the text of Daniel 17-20 with Revelation 19:17-18 makes it quiet obvious.

Those passages (changing Daniel to Ezekiel) don't require they're the same event. For it's common for birds to eat at dead bodies lying on a battlefield after any battle, before the bodies can be buried.

Also, Ezekiel 39:17 doesn't have to be after Ezekiel 39:4, but can be the same event. For the verses in Ezekiel chapters 38-39 don't have to be chronological. For example, Gog's coming into Israel and his defeat by God in Ezekiel 39:2-4 doesn't have to happen after his defeat by God in Ezekiel 38:18-22.
 
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Douggg

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Bible2, (courtesy fyi) I have had you on my ignore list for the past 6 months - so I don't see the contents of your posts. In case other posters may be wondering why they do not see responses from me regarding your commentary on whatever it is I have posted.
 
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