Daniel's 70 Week Prophecy Explained (No Future 7 Year Tribulation, Only 3.5 Year Great Tribulation)

DarklyDivine

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Hi All,

Just wanted to share a study I did on Daniel's 70 week prophecy, would love to hear what you guys think. It is my position that the "7 year tribulation" model comes from a misinterpretation of Daniel 9:27 which is due to a mistranslation of the verse. Note the difference between the NKJV and NASB. It is also my position that the Rapture is to take place only at the end of the 3.5 great tribulation period, which the Scriptures do make exceedingly clear. Also did a study on that, hope to maybe share in the future.

NJKV
Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.

NASB
And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week,
but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering;
and on the wing off abominations will come one who makes desolate,
even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed,
is poured out on the one who makes desolate.

Rapture

Luke 21
"But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

We (the Church) are here to witness all the events Jesus was speaking of, and even when we do begin to see them take place, our redemption is ONLY drawing near.

Matthew 24
But immediately after the tribulation of those days
THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. “And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory. “And He will send forth His angels (RAPTURE) with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

This is the rapture, Jesus does not come back with people here, but with angels. This is not Jesus returning with His already raptured Church to pick up those who have been left behind, this is not the Second Coming!

1 Thessalonians 4
For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel (RAPTURE) and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Corinthians 15
Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet (RAPTURE); for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Revelations 10
I saw another strong angel coming down out of heaven, clothed with a cloud; and the rainbow was upon his head, and his face was like the sun, and his feet like pillars of fire; and he had in his hand a little book which was open. He placed his right foot on the sea and his left on the land; and he cried out with a loud voice, as when a lion roars; and when he had cried out, the seven peals of thunder uttered their voices. When the seven peals of thunder had spoken, I was about to write; and I heard a voice from heaven saying, “Seal up the things which the seven peals of thunder have spoken and do not write them.” Then the angel whom I saw standing on the sea and on the land lifted up his right hand to heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever and ever, WHO CREATED HEAVEN AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE EARTH AND THE THINGS IN IT, AND THE SEA AND THE THINGS IN IT, that there will be delay no longer, but in the days of the voice of the seventh angel (RAPTURE), when he is about to sound, then the mystery of God is finished, as He preached to His servants the prophets.

Revelations 11
Then the seventh angel sounded
; and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever.” And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, saying,
“We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and have begun to reign. “And the nations were enraged, and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great (RAPTURE), and to destroy those who destroy the earth.”

God Bless

________________________________________________________________________________________

The single most important end-times prophecy is found in the Old Testament, believe it or not. It is known as the 70 week prophecy of Daniel. The reason why this prophecy is so important is because it serves as the prophetic "framework" for key end-times events that are to take place leading up to the return of Christ. It is the timeline which allows us to situate these very events in Biblical history, and is also the reference point for what is known as the Great Tribulation (Day of the Lord). The prophecy speaks of two princes, Messiah the Prince and the "prince who is to come" (Man of Sin/Anti-Christ). The prince who is to come will usher in the world's first and only satanic world system during the future Great Tribulation which is divinely assigned a time slot of 3.5 years only, and will be promptly overthrown by Messiah the Prince who will come to establish God's world order forever. The prophecy is given to Daniel on behalf of his people (Israel) and the holy city (Jerusalem). Even Jesus Himself referred to this prophecy (see Matthew 24:15), for it speaks of Him.

It goes without saying that before one can properly decipher the end-time prophecies, one must first properly understand this particular prophecy, for it is the key that unlocks the rest. Interestingly enough, this prophecy is among the most misinterpreted. The popular 7-year tribulation end-time model stems from a misinterpreting of this prophecy.

Before we turn to Scripture, there are two points that need to be iterated in order to avoid confusion:

(1) There is no future 7 year tribulation period, and only a future 3.5 year great tribulation period

(2) There is going to be a 3rd and final temple rebuilt in Jerusalem

These points will be proven as we move further into this study. What is the Day of the Lord, you may ask? We don't have the time to cover this topic, but you can read this brief article and get up to speed if need be:

http://www.gotquestions.org/day-of-the-Lord.html

Now, let's turn to the book of Daniel:

"Seventy Weeks and the Messiah"
Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress. Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined. And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”
(Daniel 9:24-27)

Another name for the "seventy weeks" is "seventy sevens", the reason being that each week is a period of 7 years. There's a lot going on in this passage of Scripture, so let's break it down into sections.

We know what this prophecy covers:
Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place.

Here's the first leg of the prophecy:
So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks...

From the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there will 7 + 62 weeks, a total of 69 weeks. 69 weeks multiplied by 7 years per week is a total period of 483 years. Thus, from the moment that the decree to rebuild Jerusalem is given up until Messiah the Prince comes, there will be 483 years.

"Cyrus’s Proclamation"
Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, so that he sent a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and also put it in writing, saying:
Thus says Cyrus king of Persia, ‘The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and He has appointed me to build Him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judah. Whoever there is among you of all His people, may his God be with him! Let him go up to Jerusalem which is in Judah and rebuild the house of the Lord, the God of Israel; He is the God who is in Jerusalem. Every survivor, at whatever place he may live, let the men of that place support him with silver and gold, with goods and cattle, together with a freewill offering for the house of God which is in Jerusalem.
(Ezra 1:1-4)


--- The first period of 7 weeks ---
This 49 year period begins with the 'commandment to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem' which was given around 456 BC. This took place during the time of Israel's Babylonian exile, but at the time that the decree was given, Persia had already conquered and replaced Babylon as the world power.

--- The second period of 62 weeks ---
The 434 year period that follows will end with the coming of the Messiah, which is marked by the baptism of Jesus in 27 AD when He is 30 years old.

456 BC + 483 years = 27 AD

At the time of Jesus' baptism (Messiah the Prince arrives), the first 69 weeks of this prophecy have been completed. At the same time, the final 70th week begins.

Here's the second leg of the prophecy:
Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off

After the 62 weeks, or after the 69 weeks. The 7 first weeks were already completed by the time the 62 weeks begin to unfold, so when Daniel records "after the 62 weeks", he means "after the 69 weeks". This is due to how Daniel separates this period of 69 weeks into two sections, 7 + 62.

How will the Messiah be "cut-off"? By His crucifixion, after having been rejected by Israel, His own people. When exactly is the Messiah cut off? Some time following the 69th week, meaning at some point during the final 70th week. How long was Jesus' earthly ministry? It was 3.5 years long.

It is at this point that one is able to clearly see that the Messiah is cut-off at the mid-point of the final 70th week, and not at the beginning of the 70th week. How come Jesus both be manifest to Israel (Messiah the prince arrives) and also cut-off from Israel at the same time?! Thus, all that remains to be fulfilled in this prophecy is the final half of the 70th week (last 3.5 years).

Here's the third leg of the prophecy:
And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering

This is the critical part to understand. In error, many assume that Daniel was talking about the Man of Sin / Beast from the Sea here (see Revelations 13:1-10 & 2 Thessalonians 2:3 NKJV). In the 70 week prophecy, Daniel refers to him as "the prince who is to come", and confirms that it is his people who will "destroy the city and the sanctuary". This is what Jesus was referencing in Luke 21:20. For a sanctuary to be destroyed, it would have the be built, indicating that there will have to be a rebuilt 3rd temple.

The covenant that is formed is not between the Man of Sin and people, but between Jesus and people. In order to understand this passage properly, one must pay close attention to the use of the personal pronouns in the text.

Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and have nothing, (and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. And its end will come with a flood; even to the end there will be war; desolations are determined.)And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate,even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.”

Daniel is clearly speaking of two individuals in this portion of Scripture! "He" will make a firm covenant with many for one week, and then "there will come one".

Jesus will make a firm covenant with many for one week and then there will come one who makes desolate. The way Jesus puts a stop to sacrifice and grain offerings IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 70th WEEK is through his substitutionary sacrifice on the cross as the Lamb of God for the sins of mankind, which takes place at the end of His earthly ministry 3.5 years following His baptism. It is the one perfect sacrifice that was offered up to God once, accomplishing all things. It is at this point that He is "cut-off" from Israel due to her hardness of heart and spiritual rebellion, causing them to kill the one whom God sent to her, His own Son.

"Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit."

The cross of Christ was the turning point, and is the very thing that completely invalidated animal sacrifice and grain offerings forever as the means of atonement for sin, which is the prescription of the Old Covenant, the Mosaic Law. This is how Jesus but an end to "animal sacrifice and grain offerings".

In the abundance of witnesses the truth is established. This principle also applies to Scripture. If the anti-christ is to form a covenant with anyone (or with Israel, for that matter), then there should be ample scriptural evidence pointing to this. There is no such thing as any one prophecy being mentioned only "once", the truths of Scripture is always reaffirmed many times over throughout the Bible. So where else in the Bible is it mentioned that the anti-christ will form a covenant with anyone? Look far and wide, you will find the bible silent on such an idea. We know who the anti-christ (man of sin) is and what he will do, forming a covenant is not one of them.

What about the idea of Jesus forming a covenant with people? My goodness, is there any one Biblical truth that has as much scriptural support as this?

The covenant Daniel spoke of is the very covenant Jesus will form with His people, the Church, for whom He will provide propitiation and atonement for sin, as well as eternal salvation and the promise of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in permanence, all this taking place following the moment of His baptism when He is made manifest to Israel with His earthly ministry commencing, during the course of "one week"(the last 70th).

However, it is important to recognize that only the Israelite men and women that Jesus was sent to are in view here, it is with the Apostle Paul that the gentile church is established. Remember, this prophecy is given on behalf of Israel.

The span of this week-long covenant began at His baptism, and goes all the way up until His second coming and the Rapture of His Church at the end of the Great Tribulation / Day of the Lord (final 3.5 years), at which point this covenant has reached its consummation (Church glorified and will forever be with the Lord). As we shall see, the Church age is squeezed in between this week, as it hasn't been revealed to Daniel. I say a covenant He "will form" because at the time that this prophecy was written, it was still all future. It is a "firm" covenant, for through the person and work of Christ, God has made a divine, legal decision to "blot out the sins" of those who turn to His Son in faith. It is an eternal and irreversible decision, producing within the life of those who receive this gracious gift a salvation leading to eternal life.

It is at the moment of Jesus' baptism when He is given the Holy Spirit from heaven, and without limit, in order to conduct His earthly ministry in power and be the first human temple of the living God. It is at this moment that the final 70th week begins, the Lord's public baptism. For it as at this moment that Jesus is revealed to Israel as her Messiah.

It is 69 weeks until "Messiah the Prince", at which point the final 70th week commences.

Does not the John the Baptist reveal that the sign He was given by God that the Messiah had come would be a dove descending and alighting on Him?This dove is the Holy Spirit, and is the divine sign from heaven that the Messiah had come and that He would bring the Kingdom of God to men and grant THEM the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of Christ, through repentance and faith. Before this point, Jesus was a regular looking man with nothing particular special about his outward appearance, who was not yet identified, for His time had not yet come.

For He grew up before Him like a tender shoot,
And like a root out of parched ground;
He has no stately form or majesty
That we should look upon Him,
Nor appearance that we should be attracted to Him.
(Isaiah 53:2)



--- The next day he saw Jesus coming to him and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is He on behalf of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’ I did not recognize Him, but so that He might be manifested to Israel, I came baptizing in water.” ---
(John 1:29-31)

The reason why Daniel said "a week" (7 years) and not 2000+ years is because it was not granted to him to see the Church age in His prophecy.

The first half of this week consists of the earthly ministry of Christ which the Old Testament testifies of to a great degree. The last half pertains to the Day of the Lord, and again this is something that both the Old and New Testaments prophesy about. Bear in mind that the Day of the Lord is what directly precedes the return of Christ / Second Coming.



** Squeezed right in the middle of this week is the Church age! **
For whom is the 70 week prophecy given?

Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city...

It has been given on behalf of Israel and the holy city (Jerusalem), hence the reason why the Church age is not revealed to Daniel here. Both the ministry of Christ and the Day of the Lord ultimately center on and revolve around Israel. More specifically, Jerusalem City and the "physical" temple of God located in Jerusalem. These are two periods of time during which God personally and directly intervenes and deals with His chosen nation, which is the primary and foremost purpose for the writing of these prophecies.

To reiterate the chronology of the final 70th week:

Jesus the Messiah is baptised and manifested to Israel (first 3.5 years)

Jesus is "cut-off" from Israel due to her rejection and crucifying of Him, Jesus puts an end to sacrifice and grain offerings, freezing the prophetic time-clock of the 70 week prophecy in the middle of the week

Israel's rejection of her Messiah paves the way for the time of the Gentiles and the Church Age, lasting 2000+ years!

The Abomination of Desolation is committed by Man of Sin in the holy place, unfreezing the prophetic time-clock of the 70 week prophecy

The Day of the Lord / Great Tribulation commences (last 3.5 years)

Another important point to understand is that Daniel did not see the second destruction of Jerusalem and the temple at the hands of the Romans a few mere decades following Israel's rejection of her Messiah (70 AD). When Babylon conquered Israel and destroyed Jerusalem (around 600 BC), it was the "first destruction" followed by the "first rebuilding" approximately years later after the decree was given allowing the Jews to return to Israel, ending their first exile. Their second exile following the Roman destruction of Jerusalem ended in 1948, with the Zionist effort to immigrate Jews from all over the world back to the Holy Land becoming a successful endeavour.

To give an analogy, it is as if God took scissors and "snipped" the historical time line between the rejection and crucifixion of Jesus, and the destruction and desolation of the "third" Jerusalem at the hands of the Man of Sin millennia later. Within this "snipped" section, the second city and temple of Jesus' days is destroyed (as He predicted), with a second rebuilding of the city taking place in the centuries to follow, though the temple still remains to be rebuilt to this day.

Daniel doesn't see this,
which is why he doesn't mention it. The reason being that it takes place during the Church age.

--- So you are to know and discern that from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem...it will be built again, with plaza and moat, even in times of distress...and the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. ---

Daniel looks and sees the second Jerusalem and second temple. Then looks again, seeing the third Jerusalem and third temple (of the 20th century) being destroyed but apparently not discerning a difference, or at least not recording a difference. This is because of how his prophecy seems to give off the impression of a continuity all the way through.

Further proving this point powerfully:


From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
(Daniel 12:11)


Literally, that very "snipped" time-span doesn't exist to Daniel, it is "frozen". He sees the crucifixion of Jesus (abolishing of regular sacrifice) and the future destruction of the third Jerusalem (the setting up of the abomination of desolation) as happening at the same time. And it is from this time that there is another 3.5 years that elapse (1290 days), the final half of the 70th week which is the Great Tribulation.

God the Father, in His sovereign will and purposes, chose to withhold revelation of the church age in the Old Testament, as He chose to not reveal anything about it to His Old Testament prophets. At the same time, there are plenty of allusions to the fact that the Church would eventually come, beginning with the Abrahamic Promise, and how God promised Abraham that He would bless the nations of the earth through his seed, and that his descendants would be as numerous as the stars of the heavens and the grains of sand on the seashore. Paul reveals how this reality has taken place. It is not a physical reality, but a spiritual one:

Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness. Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham. The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.” So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.
(Galatians 3:6-9)

Now, what about this last half (3.5 years) of the final 70th week? Where has it gone exactly? End times prophecy does not speak of any future "7 year tribulation", though it has plenty to say in regards to a future 3.5 year (42 month) great tribulation period. Scripture always proves Scripture.

He will speak out against the Most High and wear down the saints of the Highest One, and he will intend to make alterations in times and in law; and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.
Daniel 7:25

I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by Him who lives forever that it would be for a time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.
Daniel 12:7

From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the abomination of desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
Daniel 12:11

Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.
Revelation 11:2

And there was given unto him [the Beast] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
Revelation 13:5-7

The one who is wearing down the saints, making war against the saints, shattering the power of the holy people, desolating the holy city and causing it to be trampled underfoot by "his" people, intending to make alterations in times and in law, speaking great things and blasphemies against God, His tabernacle, and those that dwell in heaven, is none other than the prince who is to come, the Man of Sin (Man of Lawlessness).

Next to Jesus the Messiah, this character is the most prophesied about individual in the Bible, who carries several different "titles" depending on the prophecy. He is an end-times character who will operate during the Great Tribulation just before the Second Coming of Christ, at which point Christ will destroy Him at His coming simply by "breathing" on Him. There will not even be a struggle! He will be "broken without human agency" (Daniel 8:25).

Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming. (2 Thessalonians 2:8)

And he shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and no one will help him. (Daniel 11:45)

Finally, there is one last leg of the 70 week prophecy that needs to be considered:
...and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate.

This particular portion of Scripture deals with the actions of the Man of Sin / Beast from the Sea, and is the subject of another study. Here are the main Scripture references.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 + Daniel 11:37 + Revelations 13:5-6
Daniel 9:27, 26 + Mark 13:14 + Matthew 24:15 + Revelations 13:14
Daniel 7:8, 11, 20, 21, 24 + Revelations 13:7 +Daniel 12:7
Daniel 8:24-25 + Revelations 12:9 & 17 + Daniel 11:39
Luke 21:20 + Daniel 11:41
Micah 5:5-6 + Isaiah 10:5-6 + Revelations 11:2
Daniel 11:36-45
 
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Douggg

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Darklydivine wrote....."It is my position that the "7 year tribulation" model comes from a misinterpretation of Daniel 9:27...."

The term 7 year tribulation is a coined phrase for use in conversation. Popularized by the Pre-trib rapture concept - which really technically should be called - "Pre-seventhieth week rapture" because that is what is meant.

The great tribulation begins with the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation, some time in the middle part of the 70th week.
 
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Interplanner

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These things were written about the conflagration of the 60s in Judea. The 70th week was the time of Jesus' main events, and the last line of Dan 9 is about that generation. The AofD has its roots in the person leading the "rebellion that desolates" of 8:13, shortened to just the abomination in ch 9.
 
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Douggg

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Hi All,


At the time of Jesus' baptism (Messiah the Prince arrives), the first 69 weeks of this prophecy have been completed. At the same time, the final 70th week begins.

Here's the second leg of the prophecy:
Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off

After the 62 weeks, or after the 69 weeks. The 7 first weeks were already completed by the time the 62 weeks begin to unfold, so when Daniel records "after the 62 weeks", he means "after the 69 weeks". This is due to how Daniel separates this period of 69 weeks into two sections, 7 + 62.

How will the Messiah be "cut-off"? By His crucifixion, after having been rejected by Israel, His own people. When exactly is the Messiah cut off? Some time following the 69th week, meaning at some point during the final 70th week. How long was Jesus' earthly ministry? It was 3.5 years long.

Here we go again.....sigh.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem that last passover week, hailed as the messiah. He was cutoff 4 days later, at the end of the 69th week. There is no 3 1/2 year ministry time involved in the prophecy. The confirms the covenant "for seven years" is in the text of Deuteronomy 31:9-13. Read the thread http://www.christianforums.com/threads/confirming-of-the-covenant-what-it-is.7879823/
 
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Douggg

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The 70th week is still future. The 7 years are in Revelation 12, the 1260 days before the war in heaven + the time, times, half times after the war heaven and Satan restricted to earth.

The 7 years are also in Ezekiel 39, the 7 years which the war implements of Gog's army destruction burned for fuel. The 7 years are the same 7 years of the 70 week. The 7 years begin with the feast on Gog's army in Ezekiel 39:4. Then the end of the 7 years are with the Armageddon feat in Ezekiel 39:17-20.
 
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DarklyDivine

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Darklydivine wrote....."It is my position that the "7 year tribulation" model comes from a misinterpretation of Daniel 9:27...."

The term 7 year tribulation is a coined phrase for use in conversation. Popularized by the Pre-trib rapture concept - which really technically should be called - "Pre-seventhieth week rapture" because that is what is meant.

The great tribulation begins with the setting up of the Abomination of Desolation, some time in the middle part of the 70th week.

Here we go again.....sigh.

Jesus arrived in Jerusalem that last passover week, hailed as the messiah. He was cutoff 4 days later, at the end of the 69th week. There is no 3 1/2 year ministry time involved in the prophecy. The confirms the covenant "for seven years" is in the text of Deuteronomy 31:9-13. Read the thread http://www.christianforums.com/threads/confirming-of-the-covenant-what-it-is.7879823/

Hi Dougg,

Thanks for the response. Maybe would be a good idea to look more closely at the timing. However, as mentioned, the first half of Daniel 9:27 most assuredly speaks of Jesus, and not the anti-christ.

If you care to, try and find any other scripture that speaks of the anti-christ forming any sort of a covenant with any one. Covenant forming has nothing to do with anything the anti-christ will do. It is erroneous to assume this is what Daniel 9:27 speaks of when there is zero scriptural evidence indicating this anywhere else. If you understand the character profile and activities of the anti-christ, this makes it all the more clear. This man will regard no one, nor will he form any treaties or covenants. He is going to be a force of devastation and desolation, being the inversion of Christ, gorifying himself and elevating himself all that is called God or worshipped. He will answer to no one.

Further, Daniel does not say 69 weeks until the messiah is cut-off, but 69 weeks until messiah the prince arrives. Daniel makes clear that when Messiah the Prince arrives (public baptism of Jesus), the 69 weeks will be complete. How could Jesus both arrive and be cut-off at the same time? Unless, of course, Jesus is not cut-off at the beginning of the 70th week, but later. It is also clear that the ceasing of sacrifice and grain offerings does not pertain to the anti-christ, but Jesus. Again, this happens mid-week, proving that Jesus is cut-off mid-week, and not at the beginning of the week.

If you would care to understand what I share in the study before responding, it would be appreciated.

God bless
 
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Interplanner

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The 70th week was right after 69, no gap, v26. The Gospel events occurred. The new covenant was initiated. V27 has some repetition or 'looping back' but the desolations are the only thing past the 70 weeks in normal counting. There were things that the holy rebels were doing even as early as 7 AD that could have caused Israel's destruction (Judas the Galilean).

This is why things like Mt24A are so current and the Thess material was in very urgent order.

Do history first, then theology, to save the sighing.
 
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Straightshot

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"The 70th week is still future"


This is correct .... the 70th week of the 70 weeks is still pending

The decree of the 70 weeks of years is for Daniel's people Israel alone .... today's church is not the subject of the vision

And the last 2000 years are not a part of any of the prophets visions

All of the balance of unfulfilled prophecy is still ahead of us

The 69th week has transpired ...... the 70th week has not yet begun

If this truth is not understood the correct rendering of Bible prophecy will not be reached .... all sorts of off course ideas have been concocted and inserted into the breach by man made religions
 
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Douggg

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Hi Dougg,

Thanks for the response. Maybe would be a good idea to look more closely at the timing. However, as mentioned, the first half of Daniel 9:27 most assuredly speaks of Jesus, and not the anti-christ.

If you care to, try and find any other scripture that speaks of the anti-christ forming any sort of a covenant with any one. Covenant forming has nothing to do with anything the anti-christ will do. It is erroneous to assume this is what Daniel 9:27 speaks of when there is zero scriptural evidence indicating this anywhere else.

There is a requirement in the bible in Deuteronomy 31:9-13, that Moses made which essentially requires that the Mt. Sinai covenant be confirmed every 7 years, by a commemorative reading that God gave the children of Israel, the land forever. The 7 years is in the text. And the 7 year cycle is called the shmita. You can research shmita if you want.

The Jews have not done the commemorative reading because one of the requirements is it has to be done on the temple mount (which the Jews take to be the place of God's choosing, a requirement) - which the muslim control. The 7 years following Gog/Magog, is the 70th week. The prince who shall come, following Gog/Magog, will be perceived by the Jews as their messiah and anointed the King of Israel - thus the person becomes the Antichrist, instead of the rightful King of Israel - Jesus. With the muslims gone, the Antichrist will oversee the commemorative reading, beginning the 7 years.

In the bible - Christ means the King of Israel. Which the Jews rejected Jesus as their king.

Mark 15:32 Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.

If you understand the character profile and activities of the anti-christ, this makes it all the more clear. This man will regard no one, nor will he form any treaties or covenants. He is going to be a force of devastation and desolation, being the inversion of Christ, gorifying himself and elevating himself all that is called God or worshipped. He will answer to no one.

Further, Daniel does not say 69 weeks until the messiah is cut-off, but 69 weeks until messiah the prince arrives.

Which when did Jesus arrive in Jerusalem hailed as the messiah - when he was baptised in the wilderness, or when he rode the donkey into Jerusalem fulfilling Zechariah 9:9 ?

The answer is when he rode the donkey into Jerusalem that last passover week. 4 days later he was cutoff crucified. The messiah arrived in Jerusalem and 4 days later was cutoff.

After being cutoff, Jesus is no longer on earth to confirm the covenant for 7 years - which there is not a 7 year requirement applying to the new covenant anyway - but there is applying to the old covenant in the text of Deuteronomy 31:9-13, which the Antichrist will oversee, in the role of the King of Israel, as embraced by the Jews for a short time.


How could Jesus both arrive and be cut-off at the same time?
I just told you. He arrived in Jerusalem riding the donkey, hailed as the messiah, 4 days later cutoff.

If you would care to understand what I share in the study before responding, it would be appreciated.

Well, at my age, 66, having heard what you are presenting over 40 years, countless times, I think I pretty much understand it. But how many times have you heard the "confirms the covenant for seven years" is a requirement of Deuteronomy 31:9-13?
 
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Christ confirmed it through the teaching of the apostles. Aren't you aware of 2 Cor 3-5 and all that it implies, and Heb 5-10 and all that it implies? Heb says we have just as sure a word as the Law ever was! 2 Cor 3-5 describes the whole Christian work/mission as ambassadorship, as official royal representation!
 
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Gideon

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First, welcome to Christian Forums DarklyDivine. :) For the most part I like your study because it goes right to the heart of prophecy and thoroughly boots the bad '70 weeks' interpretation that has prevailed in end-time teaching over the last 150 years. However, you still cling to a 'stopped clock' for the final 31/2 years.

DarklyDivine said:
It is at this point that one is able to clearly see that the Messiah is cut-off at the mid-point of the final 70th week, and not at the beginning of the 70th week. How come Jesus both be manifest to Israel (Messiah the prince arrives) and also cut-off from Israel at the same time?! Thus, all that remains to be fulfilled in this prophecy is the final half of the 70th week (last 3.5 years).

...
Jesus is "cut-off" from Israel due to her rejection and crucifying of Him, Jesus puts an end to sacrifice and grain offerings, freezing the prophetic time-clock of the 70 week prophecy in the middle of the week ...
  1. Are you aware of the significance of the last half of the 70th week as it was worked out following the death of Christ?
  2. Have you considered the possibility that a future 31/2 tribulation is a different 31/2 to the last half of Daniels 70th week?
 
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tranquil

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@OP
Dougg is correct that the covenant being referred to is the Mosaic/ Mt. Sinai covenant which is every 7 years.

But I agree with you that there is no "7 year trib/ 70th week" tribulation as it is currently insisted upon.
And also there is the "covenant with Death and Hades" which may or may not be the same as the Mosaic covenant. People are saved by the "anointed one" ("messiah") and they go into the wilderness into the land that they are going to possess. Then some of them sin in the wilderness.

It would really behoove you to compare Dan 9 with Deut 28-32.

Daniel 9 is really about the 70th year in Babylon and 70 weeks / 490 days.

In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, by descent a Mede, who was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans— 2 in the first year of his reign, I, Daniel, perceived in the books the number of years that, according to the word of the Lord to Jeremiah the prophet, must pass before the end of the desolations of Jerusalem, namely, seventy years.

3 Then I turned my face to the Lord God, seeking him by prayer and pleas for mercy with fasting and sackcloth and ashes. 4 I prayed to the Lord my God and made confession, saying, “O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps covenant and steadfast love with those who love him and keep his commandments, 5 we have sinned and done wrong and acted wickedly and rebelled, turning aside from your commandments and rules. 6 We have not listened to your servants the prophets, who spoke in your name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. 7 To you, O Lord, belongs righteousness, but to us open shame, as at this day, to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to all Israel, those who are near and those who are far away, in all the lands to which you have driven them, because of the treachery that they have committed against you.

8 To us, O Lord, belongs open shame, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against you. 9 To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, for we have rebelled against him 10 and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God by walking in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets. 11 All Israel has transgressed your law and turned aside, refusing to obey your voice. And the curse and oath that are written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out upon us, because we have sinned against him.

[The Law of Moses is the Mosaic covenant/ Mt Sinai covenant. It is the song of Moses that is referred to in Rev 14 (it is called the song of Moses in Deut 32).​

Deut 30
“And when all these things come upon you, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before you, and you call them to mind among all the nations where the Lord your God has driven you, 2 and return to the Lord your God, you and your children, and obey his voice in all that I command you today, with all your heart and with all your soul, 3 then the Lord your God will restore your fortunes and have mercy on you, and he will gather you again from all the peoples where the Lord your God has scattered you. 4 If your outcasts are in the uttermost parts of heaven, from there the Lord your God will gather you, and from there he will take you.

5 And the Lord your God will bring you into the land that your fathers possessed, that you may possess it. And he will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. 6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live. 7 And the Lord your God will put all these curses on your foes and enemies who persecuted you.


12 He has confirmed his words, which he spoke against us and against our rulers who ruled us, by bringing upon us a great calamity. For under the whole heaven there has not been done anything like what has been done against Jerusalem. 13 As it is written in the Law of Moses, all this calamity has come upon us; yet we have not entreated the favor of the Lord our God, turning from our iniquities and gaining insight by your truth. 14 Therefore the Lord has kept ready the calamity and has brought it upon us, for the Lord our God is righteous in all the works that he has done, and we have not obeyed his voice. 15 And now, O Lord our God, who brought your people out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and have made a name for yourself, as at this day, we have sinned, we have done wickedly.

16 “O Lord, according to all your righteous acts, let your anger and your wrath turn away from your city Jerusalem, your holy hill, because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and your people have become a byword among all who are around us. 17 Now therefore, O our God, listen to the prayer of your servant and to his pleas for mercy, and for your own sake, O Lord, make your face to shine upon your sanctuary, which is desolate. 18 O my God, incline your ear and hear. Open your eyes and see our desolations, and the city that is called by your name. For we do not present our pleas before you because of our righteousness, but because of your great mercy. 19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive. O Lord, pay attention and act. Delay not, for your own sake, O my God, because your city and your people are called by your name.”

20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my plea before the Lord my God for the holy hill of my God, 21 while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the first, came to me in swift flight at the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He made me understand, speaking with me and saying, “O Daniel, I have now come out to give you insight and understanding. 23 At the beginning of your pleas for mercy a word went out, and I have come to tell it to you, for you are greatly loved. Therefore consider the word and understand the vision.

24 “Seventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. 25 Know therefore and understand that from the going out of the word to restore and build Jerusalem to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, there shall be seven weeks. Then for sixty-two weeks it shall be built again with squares and moat, but in a troubled time. 26 And after the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one shall be cut off and shall have nothing. And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed. 27 And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”​

At the end of the 70 years, Babylon will be punished and good Jews and Christians will be liberated from it. 70 weeks before this time is when the vision is taking place.

Do we see an analog to modern day Israel here? YES

The 70th anniversary of Israel is May 14, 2018. Matt 24 details 2 specific dates in it - the 10th of Tevet, the "winter Sabbath day" and 27 Iyyar, the 'last day of the days of Noah". More details here http://www.christianforums.com/threads/10th-of-tevet-great-tribulation.7845921/

At certain times, these 2 dates will give us 1260 days or 490 days. The 10th of Tevet is when Jerusalem is attacked by Babylon. There is in the near future only 1 instance of it being 490 days and that is dusk Jan 7, 2017 (10 Tevet) to dusk May 11, 2018. Add 3.5 days to get us to the exact 70 year mark for Israel.

To sum up:
- 10 Tevet destroys Jerusalem. (1-7-17 starts the repentance phase described above in Deut 30 and Dan 9' 70 weeks)
- 7 weeks later ( 2-25-17) is an anointed one, one of the false christs that rises up to possibly deceive the elect
- this anointed one confirms the Mosaic covenant at Yom Kippur/ Day of Atonement 2017
(which is why the star sign of Revelation 12 occurs at Rosh Hashanah 2017 or possibly the anointed one is judging "Israel" and "casting the unprofitable servants out" (which means that they are good...)

- May 11, 2018 - Babylon punished at the end of 70 years. Also the end of the 70 weeks. this is possibly done by the anointed one. Hence:
And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”​
This is just the idea that God uses bad people to achieve His goals and that then they are subsequently punished also.
 
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Interplanner

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Nope its not about our modern situation at all. That's a big time warp syndrome that needs to be corrected. Daniel prayed for his nations sins to be atoned for and they were in the answer: Messiah. But the odd thing about this vision is that the country is desolated all over again. That just about sums up the NT! The Gospel comes and it has its new mission, but the nation of Israel is ruined.
 
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BABerean2

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Hi Dougg,

Thanks for the response. Maybe would be a good idea to look more closely at the timing. However, as mentioned, the first half of Daniel 9:27 most assuredly speaks of Jesus, and not the anti-christ.

If you care to, try and find any other scripture that speaks of the anti-christ forming any sort of a covenant with any one. Covenant forming has nothing to do with anything the anti-christ will do. It is erroneous to assume this is what Daniel 9:27 speaks of when there is zero scriptural evidence indicating this anywhere else. If you understand the character profile and activities of the anti-christ, this makes it all the more clear. This man will regard no one, nor will he form any treaties or covenants. He is going to be a force of devastation and desolation, being the inversion of Christ, gorifying himself and elevating himself all that is called God or worshipped. He will answer to no one.

Further, Daniel does not say 69 weeks until the messiah is cut-off, but 69 weeks until messiah the prince arrives. Daniel makes clear that when Messiah the Prince arrives (public baptism of Jesus), the 69 weeks will be complete. How could Jesus both arrive and be cut-off at the same time? Unless, of course, Jesus is not cut-off at the beginning of the 70th week, but later. It is also clear that the ceasing of sacrifice and grain offerings does not pertain to the anti-christ, but Jesus. Again, this happens mid-week, proving that Jesus is cut-off mid-week, and not at the beginning of the week.

If you would care to understand what I share in the study before responding, it would be appreciated.

God bless

You are most certainly on the right track.

Prepare for the arrows and name-calling for daring to say something different from what is taught in most evangelical churches today.
Do not get discouraged by the name-calling.
And try not to get sucked into it, however many times it is not easy and I for one do not have a perfect record.

The following comes from my 1599 Geneva Bible, which the Pilgrims brought to America.


Daniel 9:27


And he (a) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to (b) cease, (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.

(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.

Below are a couple of other resources.


Who Confirmed The Covenant?
http://christianmediaresearch.com/node/1023


Daniel’s 70 Weeks
https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/14-daniels-prophecy-of-the-seventy-weeks

.


 
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Douggg

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....... (c) and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.



"even until the consummation" ...... of the 70 weeks of years.

The temple and city were destroyed in 70 AD. Jesus was cutoff in 33 AD. That is a 37 year difference - not 7 years. The prince who shall come is not Jesus. And the 7 years were not back in the first century.




[/QUOTE]
 
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BABerean2

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"even until the consummation" ...... of the 70 weeks of years.

The temple and city were destroyed in 70 AD. Jesus was cutoff in 33 AD. That is a 37 year difference - not 7 years. The prince who shall come is not Jesus. And the 7 years were not back in the first century.



[/QUOTE]

We could argue about your traditional date of the crucifixion not being exactly correct, since it is probably closer to 29 or 30 AD, but that is not worth arguing over here.
If you want to know the corrected date, get a copy of "The Atonement Clock" by Christian Gedge.

There were only two antecedents for the word "he" in Daniel chapter 9. They are the Messiah and Titus. We could argue about which he is used where, however the main point should be that there in no antecedent for the antichrist in the whole chapter.
How does the antichrist pop out of thin air into Daniel 9?

Jesus was cut off after His ministry of 1/2 week, after the 69th week, which was into the 70th week.
The Gospel was taken to the Jews through the ministry of the Holy Spirit for another 1/2 week, until the time that Stephen was stoned.
After that time the Gospel was also taken to the whole world.

Jesus said in His own words that He fulfilled the covenant.


Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament(covenant), which is shed for many for the remission of sins.



The veil in the temple was torn on the day of the ultimate sacrifice showing that animal sacrifices were no longer needed.
He caused the sacrifice and the oblation to cease in the middle of the 70th week.

Luke 23:45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst.




Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


All sacrifices after the Cross were an abomination to God.
He had given His Son.

.






 
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Douggg

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There were only two antecedents for the word "he" in Daniel chapter 9. They are the Messiah and Titus. We could argue about which he is used where, however the main point should be that there in no antecedent for the antichrist in the whole chapter.
How does the antichrist pop out of thin air into Daniel 9?[/quote]


You are assigning Titus to be the he... in error of your interpretation. The prince who come is the end times little horn who becomes the Antichrist, and is the "he" who confirms the covenant for 7 years. How much proof do you need that the for 7 years is the "shmita" requirement of Deuteronomy 31:9-13 ?


"Jesus was cut off after His ministry of 1/2 week, after the 69th week, which was into the 70th week.
The Gospel was taken to the Jews through the ministry of the Holy Spirit for another 1/2 week, until the time that Stephen was stoned.
After that time the Gospel was also taken to the whole world."

Oh sure, did the animal sacrifices stopped with Stephen's stoning? No the animal sacrifices did not stop and went on for another 30 plus years.


Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.




 
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At the time of the rapture, Jesus Christ will bring the sleeping saints with
Him and angels. This will be after the great tribulation of the 4-5th seals.
.
 
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