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Interplanner
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Vinsight, I also find your entries to be a sort of thinking or writing out loud. Try to go over them once with someone else before. Sometimes the question is lost; sometimes it is already answered in what you said.
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Bible2
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The "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 is referred to in Revelation 12:14. And Revelation is an unsealed book (Revelation 22:10). So the meaning of the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 was unsealed by the time that Revelation was written in the first century AD. Therefore, "the end" in Daniel 12:4,9 must be "the end" in the same sense as in Hebrews 9:26 (see also 1 Corinthians 10:11b), which shows that (in one sense) "the end" of the world had already begun at the time of Jesus' first coming and his crucifixion for our sins.
So Daniel 12:4b can be referring to many Christians, at anytime after Jesus' first coming and the writing of Revelation, going to and fro, going back and forth, between the still-unfulfilled parts of Revelation and Daniel, and these Christians increasing their knowledge of what's going to happen in our future by seeing how much these two books complement each other (cf. Isaiah 28:9-10; 1 Corinthians 2:13).
Also, Daniel 12:6,8 doesn't contradict the fact that the time of the end in Daniel 12:4,9 can begin before the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 and all the other "wonders" and "things" referred to in Daniel 12:6,8 have ended. For the "time, times, and an half" in Daniel 12:7 refers to only the specific time period of 3.5 literal years which would later be shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13), the detailed events of which have never been fulfilled. And Daniel 12:6 refers to the specific "wonders" that Daniel had just been told about in Daniel 11:2 to 12:3, which also include detailed events which have never been fulfilled (Daniel 11:31 to 12:3), including the church's resurrection into immortality (Daniel 12:2-3) at the time of the Antichrist's defeat (Daniel 11:45 to 12:3, Revelation 19:20 to 20:6), whereas Daniel 12:4,9 refers to a more general "time of the end" which began in the first century AD (Hebrews 9:26; 1 Corinthians 10:11b).
One part of Daniel that could have remained sealed until recently is the understanding of Daniel 12:11-12.
Daniel 12:11-12 and Revelation 16:15 could mean that 1,335 literal days after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31), Jesus' 2nd coming will occur, and blessed are those believers who wait and remain obedient until that day. If the literal 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 13:5-8, Revelation 12:6) will begin when the abomination of desolation is set up, and if the 7 vials of God's wrath will begin on the day after the 1,260 days of the Antichrist's worldwide reign (Revelation 11:15,19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), and if the first 6 vials will be poured out over 30 days, then the 6th vial could be poured out on the 1,290th day after the abomination of desolation is set up (Daniel 12:11).
It's on this 1,290th day that the blessing of Daniel 12:12 and Revelation 16:15 could be given, after the 6th vial has been poured out (Revelation 16:12), encouraging those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at that time to keep holding on just 45 more days until Jesus' 2nd coming on the 1,335th day. The 45 days could be taken up by the gathering together of the world's armies to Armageddon (Revelation 16:14,16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel) and then their moving south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus' 2nd coming and their total defeat (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).
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Bible2
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In Revelation 22:10, "this book" which is not sealed is the entire book of Revelation, the fulfillment of which is "at hand" (Revelation 22:10, Revelation 1:3), and which the entire church needs to "keep" the sayings of (Revelation 22:7,9, Revelation 1:3), and which Jesus gave through an angel to the entire church (Revelation 22:16, Revelation 1:1-3).
The entire book of Revelation being unsealed (Revelation 22:10) means that it should not be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it is written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).
Just as Jesus' 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the preceding tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the millennium in Revelation 20 will be literal, and will begin after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when he will reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.
Revelation chapters 6 to 22 are chronological, insofar as the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will begin with the events of the 2nd through 6th seals, occurring in the order shown in Revelation 6:3-14. After the events of the 6th seal, Revelation 7 will occur. Then the 7th seal will be unsealed and out of it will come the tribulation's 7 trumpets (Revelation 8:1-6). Then the events of the first 6 trumpets in Revelation 8:7 to Revelation 9:21 will occur in the order shown there. Then Revelation 10 will occur. Then the literal 3.5 years of the Antichrist's worldwide reign will occur, which time period is shown from 4 different angles in Revelation chapters 11 to 14 (Revelation 11:2b-3, Revelation 12:6,14, Revelation 13:5,7, Revelation 14:9-13).
Then the 7th trumpet will sound, announcing the legal end of the Antichrist's reign (Revelation 11:15). Out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the 7 plagues of the 7 vials (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1), the tribulation's final stage. Then the events of the 7 vials will occur in the order shown in Revelation 16. Jesus will return right after the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), and he will marry the church at that time (Revelation 19:7). Then he will defeat the armies of the world (Revelation 19:11 to 20:3), and reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected or changed church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53). Then the events of Revelation 20:7 to Revelation 22:5 will occur in the order shown there.
In Revelation 10:7, "finished" in the original Greek is "teleo" (G5055), which can mean "performed" (Luke 2:39). Revelation 10:7 means that the prophetic writings regarding the tribulation will finish being performed at the 7th trumpet of the tribulation. For out of the 7th trumpet's heavenly-temple opening will come the final stage of the tribulation, the 7 plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation 11:19, Revelation 15:5 to 16:1).
In Revelation 10:7, the "mystery" is currently known by the church, just as, for example, the "mystery" in Romans 16:25-26 and Colossians 1:26 is currently known by the church. For the mystery in Revelation 10:7 has already been "declared to his servants the prophets" (Revelation 10:7), just as the "mystery" in Romans 16:25-26 and Colossians 1:26 is already "made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets" (Romans 16:26).
Actually, no, for only after the destruction of Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" at the 7th vial, the final event of the tribulation, is completed (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2), will Jesus return and rapture (gather together) and marry the church (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Matthew 24:29-31; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8).
Mark 13:20 can mean that all flesh on the earth would die if the Lord hadn't already shortened, as in "he hath shortened" (Mark 13:20b), the number of days of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18, Matthew 24, and Mark 13. The Lord could have already determined, from the beginning of Creation (cf. Isaiah 46:10), that he will return on the 1,335th day after the abomination of desolation (possibly a standing, android image of the Antichrist) is set up in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 12:11-12, Revelation 16:15). And the Lord will return "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), immediately after its final event, the worldwide destruction during the 7th vial (Revelation 16:19, Revelation 19:2 to 20:6). So Mark 13:20 can mean that if the Lord hadn't shortened the number of days of the tribulation, then all flesh on the earth would die during the 7th vial's aftermath, which could be a nuclear-winter scenario (which the Lord will miraculously prevent at his return) brought on by the 10 kings of the Antichrist's empire nuking the cities of the earth at the 7th vial (Revelation 17:16-17a, Revelation 16:19).
In Revelation 16:15, Jesus is encouraging and warning those in the church who will still be alive on the earth at the time of the 6th vial (Revelation 16:12, near the end of the future tribulation), still waiting for his coming as a thief, to hang on just a little longer until his 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3, right after the destruction of Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" at the 7th vial (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2 to 20:3). Revelation 16:15 could be the same blessing as Daniel 12:11-12.
Those addressed in Revelation 16:15 don't have to still be alive by the 1335th day (Daniel 12:11-12), but they do have to be righteous, whether they will die (cf. Revelation 14:13; 1 Thessalonians 5:23) or will still be alive. For keeping one's garments in Revelation 16:15 is figurative for keeping righteous, just as the garments in Revelation 19:8 are figurative of righteousness (Revelation 19:8b).
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>>>And the human little horn and his human followers (the Muslims of the Middle East) will be destroyed by the Lord in the battle (Revelation 19:21)<<<
Utter nonsense. the little horn that waxed exceeding great = BABYLON THE GREAT. Both of which are descriptions of modern-day AMERICA.
ALL of Daniel's and Revelation's prophecies are about AMERICA. So too the prophecies in 2nd Thessalonians 2. They're ALL about the falling away of the latter-day white Americans, followed by the exaltation of black Americans.
It's what Paul said would have to occur before the 2nd coming of Christ.
And in case you haven't noticed, both events have fully come to fruition.
White Americans have fallen away from the views once held by our forefathers about the black man and about interracial marriage.
And as the result of that falling away, the blacks have exalted themselves above the white Americans.
Wake up, people!!
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Daniel 11 ends with Herod the Great. The Historicists are spot on with Daniel 11. (But incomprehensible with Daniel 12, imho)
Herod the Great (11:44-45)
Herod the Great (11:44-45)
- 11:44 Herod the Great at the end of his life was greatly troubled and angered by tidings from east and north.
- We know we have moved back to Herod the Great by virtue of where he planted his palace (45).
- The parenthesis of politics in the rest of the world behind us; we now return to Herod "the king."
- The antecedents of pronouns, in all writings, are identified by context, not necessarily by proximity.
- Horrible tidings came from the east to Herod – news that a king of the Jews was born (Matt 2:1-18)!
- Herod and all Jerusalem were "troubled" with the things they heard from wise men from the east!
- When mocked by the wise men, Herod was "exceeding wroth" and issued his atrocious decree.
- He went forth with great fury and killed all the baby boys in Bethlehem and neighboring areas.
- His depraved, oldest son Antipater, who was in Rome (the north), spread seditious lies about him and sought to assassinate him with poison, which Herod found by torture and had Antipater killed.
- He burned Matthias and forty others alive, after they pulled down the golden eagle at the temple.
- He gathered all the principal leaders of Israel together and had them retained in the hippodrome, and he gave the order they were to be killed at his death, so the nation would mourn as fitting its king.
- 11:45 Herod the Great presumed to plant his palace in the holy mountain of God, but he came to a lonely end.
- The two seas here are the Mediterranean and Dead Seas, between which is Jerusalem (Zech 14:8).
- The glorious holy mountain is Mount Zion (Moriah), upon which Jerusalem was built (Ps 48:1-3).
- Herod's palace was a magnificent fortress attached to the temple with a secret passage into it.
- Herod died lonely and hated by everyone, for he had butchered his own family and nation for gain.
- He died of the most horrible afflictions and diseases, which could not be [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] or alleviated at all.
- He died in absolute torment of a combination of rage and fear. Josephus says "paroxysms of fury."
- He died in one year from having slain the babies of Bethlehem, as God brought judgment on him.
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Douggg
anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
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Hi vinsight4u, all of Daniel 11 is passed history, until it gets to Daniel 11:36, the willful king of the end times. The willful king because he claims to be greater than any god, is the Antichrist in the final stage of his career as the Anitichrist beast.
In Daniel 8, in the early stages of his career as the little horn, he is already getting involved in occult, called "craft", in the text of Daniel 8. He is enlisting power from the angelic realm.
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people.
25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
In Daniel 11:39-40, you can see his craft "practise" in action. By the time of Daniel 11:36, he will have already entered the Antichrist-beast stage of his career, claiming to be above every god, and speaking against the God of gods. (Revelation 13:6, as the beast blaspheming God)
The Antichrist at that stage of his career, as the Antichrist-beast, himself will be possessed by the beast spirit that will have ascended out of the bottomless pit. He is going to enlist all of the powers of the Satanic kingdom to carry out his agenda.
The battles in Daniel 11:40-45 are near the very end of the Antichrist's reign. His western block of nations will be attacked by the north, south, and east blocks. That will bring all of the armies of the world into the middle east, when without expectation the heavens will part, and the veil of the cosmos taken aside, and the world will see Jesus before the throne of God, sickle in hand (Revelation 14) ready to execute judgement on the wicked and evil men of the world.
The four stages to the Antichrist's career.
1. little horn politician (will intention to come to the aid of Israel to thwart Gog/Magog)
2. the prince that shall come (will be received by Israel as her long awaited king messiah, confirming the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle of Deuteronomy 31:10-11)
3. the revealed man of sin, son of perdition (goes into the temple, declares to be God, and is killed for it)
4. the Antichrist-beast (comes back to life, possessed by the beast spirit ascending from the bottomless pit. Near the end, the battles of Daniel 11:40-45 takes place)
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Interplanner
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Our objective should be to see what the NT/apostles say the OT means and follow that model.
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Bible2
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Regarding "why the king of the north is able to get clear to Israel", as in the war scenario in post 28, some people might say that it is impossible because the awesome Israeli Air Force would be able to take out any forces streaming toward Israel. But the Israeli Air Force could be unable to hit enough of the massive Iraqi invading force to prevent the little territory of Israel from being overrun. For between Baghdad and Israel is basically flat desert across which massive numbers of Iraqi tanks, armored personnel carriers, and rapid-fire, rapidly-moving tracked howitzers could stream west toward Israel in very wide and staggered formations, which Israel's Air Force could have difficulty taking out quickly. And interspersed liberally among the Iraqi forces could be large numbers of highly mobile and technically advanced (U.S.-made) Iraqi SAM (surface-to-air missile) units, which could manage to take out most of Israel's Air Force as it's attacking the Iraqi forces. Any Iraqi force configuration which the U.S. will have provided to the Iraqi Army, with the idea of making sure that Iraq could defeat all of Iran's air and surface defenses and overrun Iran's relatively huge territory, could also be capable of (instead) defeating Israel's air and surface defenses to the point of Iraq being able to overrun the little territory of Israel.
Regarding the U.S., some people might say that it would be able to prevent an Iraqi attack on Israel by employing the U.S. forces in Iraq or Kuwait. But there could be almost no U.S. forces in Iraq when the war happens (they have already almost completely vacated Iraq, and might never return). And even if they do return before the war happens, they, just as the U.S. forces in Kuwait, would have a hard time justifying to the Iraqi masses the U.S.'s killing of Iraqi troops (starting on their way across the desert to defeat Israel). Also, if the Iraqi Army vacates Iraq in order to defeat Israel (with a promise from Israel-hating Iran not to invade Iraq in the meantime), then if all the U.S. forces in Kuwait (and any which may have returned to Iraq) went chasing westward after the Iraqi Army to attack and weaken it before it reaches Israel, the U.S. would then have to fear Iran invading and occupying a completely-defenseless Iraq (which occupation Iran could justify by saying that it's just there to defend the Iraqi masses from any retaliation by U.S. forces until the Iraqi Army can return from its defeat of Israel), not to mention that it would also leave the U.S.'s own flank in Kuwait dangerously exposed to an Iranian invasion and occupation.
Regarding the U.S., some people might say that it would be able to counter-attack with its forces in the West and restore Israel and Egypt. But if the Baathists defeat and occupy Israel and Egypt, and the U.S. begins a counter-attack to "restore" (i.e. to take back) Israel and Egypt by attempting a huge amphibious assault on occupied Egypt, the Baathists could cut the invasion forces to shreds in the sea by firing tens of thousands of rockets and missiles (well-camouflaged and -dispersed on flat roofs in densely populated areas close to shore), resulting in the loss of something like 30,000 U.S. military personnel in a single day. This anti-Inchon could cause a huge uproar among the U.S. public, which could cry out: "What are we doing over there? Who cares about Egypt? And why in the world do the Israelis have to live in that awful region surrounded by so many hateful and powerful enemies? Let all the Israelis come over here to America and live in freedom and peace with us. Why should any more of our precious young men be slaughtered over this madness in the Middle East?"
And so the U.S. could withdraw from attempting any more counter-attacks to "restore" Israel and Egypt. Also, a bankruptcy of the U.S. government at this same time because of a massive run on the U.S. dollar after its disastrous failure in the counter-attack could render the U.S. unable for a time to finance any more huge military invasions overseas. The U.S. could instead blockade the Baathists with its huge Navy and call an emergency session of the U.N. Security Council to address the situation. But Russia and China could veto any votes to send in outside forces, saying: "What right does the world have to interfere in this act of Arab self-determination? How is Arab Iraq and Syria invading Arab Palestine and Egypt to establish a free union of Arabs any different than the American North invading the American South during the American Civil War to establish a free union of Americans? Should the U.N. authorize outside forces to invade the U.S. to restore the Confederacy? And how is the Arabs occupying the Jews' ancestral land any different than the U.S. occupying the American Indians' ancestral lands? Should the U.N. authorize outside forces to invade the U.S. to restore the American Indians to their ancestral lands?"
The U.S. could then turn to the U.N. General Assembly, only to have its spokesman hooted and shouted from the podium by a world which is jealous of America's power, and which could say (in its words): "Ha! Ha! Great America is defeated! And no one wants to help it restore its hegemony over the Middle East!" The U.S. could then turn to NATO, only to have the Europeans turn down its request to send the armies of Europe (as they could say) "into the jaws of death, and for what?" Russia and China, seeing America's isolation, could then send in military "advisers" into an ever-expanding "United Arab States" and shore it up with massive amounts of military hardware and training. Oil-thirsty China could do so in exchange for cheap oil, and oil-rich Russia could sell its military hardware in exchange for huge amounts of cash (and just to be able to thumb its nose at a defeated U.S. and keep the U.S. from taking back hegemony over the Middle East).
Ultimately, after the Baathists have completed taking control of the entire Arab Middle East and North Africa, the U.S. could find itself completely blocked out of those regions and all their oil, but could say that it's those regions that are blockaded by the huge U.S. Navy. To get around the U.S. naval blockade, China could lay an oil pipeline from the Middle East to a point on the coast of the Indian Ocean (where oil tankers could get the oil) beyond the blockade. (Also, if most of the U.S. Navy gets deployed to blockade the huge region controlled by the Baathists, China could see that as the time for it to make an all-out attempt to restore Taiwan to mainland Chinese control, and also to take control of every disputed island -- and every oil- and gas-rich undersea territory -- in the South China Sea and the East China Sea.) Russia could get around the U.S. naval blockade by sending into the Middle East and North Africa any military hardware sales it would have delivered by ship, by delivering them instead via rail and trucks crossing the Caucasus and western Iran. And Europe could get around the blockade and obtain oil from the Middle East and North Africa by building a large pipeline across the Bosporus, and possibly even by digging a pipeline tunnel under the Strait of Gibraltar.
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