Crystal skull impossible to duplicate in the here and now. Why?

dad

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"Much research is currently being done on the skulls. However, their origin is still a baffling mystery. They seem to defy logic. Everything that is known about lapidary work indicates that the skulls should have been shattered fractured, or fallen apart when carved."

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_6_1.htm

The simple answer would be that something had to be different when the crystal skulls were made.

Apparently life spans, and many things were different in the far past.

If you cannot produce for us one of these skulls, made in the here and now, I would have to conclude that the evidence suggests that the past was very different.
 

ChordatesLegacy

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DAD do some background reading before posting faked evidence for your so called different state universe. I was going to say horse manure, but your post is more like Dung Beatle excrement, i.e. re-work bull manure.


_44681384_crystalskull_bm_226.jpg



Two of the best known crystal skulls - artefacts once thought to be the work of ancient American civilisations - are modern fakes, a scientific study shows.

Crystal skulls are the focus of the story in the latest Indiana Jones film.
But experts say examples held at the British Museum in London and the Smithsonian Institution in Washington DC are anything but genuine.
Their results show the skulls were made using tools not available to the ancient Aztecs or Mayans.
Researchers say the work, which is published in the Journal of Archaeological Science, should end decades of speculation over the origins of these controversial objects.
And it casts serious doubt over the authenticity of other crystal skulls held in collections around the world.
A team including Margaret Sax, from the British Museum in London, and Professor Ian Freestone, from Cardiff University, used sophisticated techniques to work out how the two skulls had been made.
"There are about a dozen or more of these crystal skulls. Except for the British Museum skull and one in Paris, they seem to have entered public awareness since the 60s, with the interest in quartz and the New Age movement," Professor Freestone told BBC News.
"It does appear that people have been making them since then. Some of them are quite good, but some of them look like they were produced with a Black & Decker in someone's garage."
He added: "There seems to be the assumption that if it is roughly worked, it is more likely to have been made by a traditional society. That's untrue of course, because people were quite sophisticated. They might not have had modern tools, but they did a good job."
The researchers used an electron microscope to show that the skulls were probably shaped using a spinning disc-shaped tool made from copper or another suitable metal.
The craftsman added an abrasive to the wheel, allowing the crystal to be worked more easily.
Modern technology
This "rotary wheel" technology was almost certainly not used by pre-Columbian peoples. Instead, analysis of genuine Aztec and Mixtec artefacts show they were crafted using tools made from stone and wood.
The British Museum skull was worked with a harsh abrasive such as corundum or diamond. But X-ray diffraction analysis showed a different material, called carborundum, was used on the artefact in the Smithsonian.
Carborundum is a synthetic abrasive which only came into use in the 20th Century: "The suggestion is that it was made in the 1950s or later," said Professor Freestone.
Who made the skulls is still a mystery. But, in the case of the British Museum object, some point the finger of suspicion at a 19th Century French antiquities dealer called Eugene Boban.
"We assume that he bought it from, or had it made from [craftsmen] somewhere in Europe," said Professor Freestone, a former deputy keeper of science and conservation at the British Museum.
Anonymous donation
Contemporary documents suggest Mr Boban was involved in selling at least two of the known crystal skulls - the one held in London and another in Paris.
The London skull was probably manufactured no more than a decade before being offered up for sale.
Despite the findings, a spokeswoman for the British Museum said the artefact would remain on permanent display to the public.
The skull held by the Smithsonian was donated to the museum anonymously in 1992, along with a note saying it had been bought in Mexico in 1960.
Nothing is known of its history before that date, but like the British object, it was probably manufactured shortly before being purchased.
The researchers were not able to determine where the quartz used in the skulls was quarried. But locations with suitably large deposits include Brazil, Madagascar and, possibly, the Alps.
Professor Freestone said the work did not prove all crystal skulls were fakes, but it did cast doubt on the authenticity of other examples: "None of them have a good archaeological provenance and most appeared suspiciously in the last decades of the 20th Century. So we have to be sceptical," he explained.
The findings are likely to be a disappointment to enthusiasts and collectors; the skulls have become a part of popular culture, appearing in numerous films and novels.
 
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dad

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Two of the best known crystal skulls - artefacts once thought to be the work of ancient American civilisations - are modern fakes, a scientific study shows.

Two down? Let's see.


Their results show the skulls were made using tools not available to the ancient Aztecs or Mayans.
So? If the Mayans and co were here long after the flood, and the skull was pre flood, how would that matter?? Who said they made it??

And it casts serious doubt over the authenticity of other crystal skulls held in collections around the world.

Try telling us why, rather than casting doubts.
A team including Margaret Sax, from the British Museum in London, and Professor Ian Freestone, from Cardiff University, used sophisticated techniques to work out how the two skulls had been made.
...
"It does appear that people have been making them since then. Some of them are quite good, but some of them look like they were produced with a Black & Decker in someone's garage."
He added: "There seems to be the assumption that if it is roughly worked, it is more likely to have been made by a traditional society. That's untrue of course, because people were quite sophisticated. They might not have had modern tools, but they did a good job."


Rough art or polished work isn't the issue, is it? What I asked was if you could make these things now.


The researchers used an electron microscope to show that the skulls were probably shaped using a spinning disc-shaped tool made from copper or another suitable metal.
The craftsman added an abrasive to the wheel, allowing the crystal to be worked more easily.

Great. How do you claim to know this, and what was it, exactly, and who says that a copper tool is rocket science, only available in the nuclear age?

Modern technology
This "rotary wheel" technology was almost certainly not used by pre-Columbian peoples. Instead, analysis of genuine Aztec and Mixtec artefacts show they were crafted using tools made from stone and wood.
The British Museum skull was worked with a harsh abrasive such as corundum or diamond.
So? Diamons were not around pre flood?? Seems like so far all you offer is an opinion that they were cavemenlike. But even if people were knocked back into the stone age after the flood, some of them, if they ended up with crystal works from before the flood, who says they had to make them??


But X-ray diffraction analysis showed a different material, called carborundum, was used on the artefact in the Smithsonian.
Carborundum is a synthetic abrasive which only came into use in the 20th Century: "The suggestion is that it was made in the 1950s or later," said Professor Freestone. [/quote]

Well, it is found in nature, apparently. If the past nature was different, one suspects it would be possibly more easily found!

"Moissanite is the rare mineral form of silicon carbide (SiC) which has been found in meteorites and in mantle derived igneous rocks.[1] It is classed in the element group in both the Dana and mineral class. It crystallizes in the hexagonal system.[2] Synthetic moissanite is used as a diamond simulant by gemmologists.[/quote]


"Silicon carbide (SiC) is a compound of silicon and carbon bonded together to form ceramics, but it also occurs in nature as the extremely rare mineral moissanite."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_carbide

The fact that it is usually apparently oonly either from deep in the earth, or outer space raises suspicion, like iridium, that we may be looking at a clue of the different state past. You would need something more than this doubbt casting, to make your claims stick.






Who made the skulls is still a mystery. But, in the case of the British Museum object, some point the finger of suspicion at a 19th Century French antiquities dealer called Eugene Boban.
"We assume that he bought it from, or had it made from [craftsmen] somewhere in Europe," said Professor Freestone, a former deputy keeper of science and conservation at the British Museum.
Assume smume. You assume a same state present origin, because that is all you believe in! Why weary us with religion on a science forum?? Either you got something or not. So far, ..not!


Anonymous donation
Contemporary documents suggest Mr Boban was involved in selling at least two of the known crystal skulls - the one held in London and another in Paris.
The London skull was probably manufactured no more than a decade before being offered up for sale.


Why??? Isn't this supposed to be a research article? Why not explain your stories and claims?? Typical.

Despite the findings, a spokeswoman for the British Museum said the artefact would remain on permanent display to the public.
The skull held by the Smithsonian was donated to the museum anonymously in 1992, along with a note saying it had been bought in Mexico in 1960.
Nothing is known of its history before that date, but like the British object, it was probably manufactured shortly before being purchased.

Why, because a diamond like substance was used?? So?

The researchers were not able to determine where the quartz used in the skulls was quarried. But locations with suitably large deposits include Brazil, Madagascar and, possibly, the Alps.

OK, so they have no idea where ir came from! Hardly conclusive doubt casting, I would sugggest!

Professor Freestone said the work did not prove all crystal skulls were fakes, but it did cast doubt on the authenticity of other examples: "None of them have a good archaeological provenance and most appeared suspiciously in the last decades of the 20th Century. So we have to be sceptical," he explained.
So what? I am skeptical of your ignorance on the issue, and would have thought it should have kept your wild claims in check.
The findings are likely to be a disappointment to enthusiasts and collectors; the skulls have become a part of popular culture, appearing in numerous films and novels.
Not me. I have no ax to grind, and simpply look at what we actually know. If they were made in a garage, I would like to know. If they are relics, passed along, from a different state, some of them, I have no problem with that. I don't know. But nothing you have said limits the manufature of these things to the present. That all you got???
 
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dad

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I reckon having a crystal skull would be kewl. Certainly break the ice at parties. You could play musical chimes on your head to pass the time.

Even better if your skin was transparent too, so people walking past would see your brain.

Well, I suppose if we were a framed painting of a person on a wall, we would look OK as well. I think the issue would be that the things were some sort of art, or creations made by men at some point. Not that people were walking crystals in the 60ies, or whenever. Think about it.
 
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Washington

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If you cannot produce for us one of these skulls, made in the here and now, I would have to conclude that the evidence suggests that the past was very different.

Oh, but we can! We can! We can! Just look at this crystal skull


Crystal_Skullfinal.jpg

that was made for the movie, India . . . . . . . hold on a sec.




Hmmm. My friend siting next to me and who's been looking over my shoulder says the skull in the movie has been proven to be of extraterrestrial origin. And that the movie Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull was a documentary of its discovery.

Never mind. My mistake. You're correct.
 
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Bombila

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"Much research is currently being done on the skulls. However, their origin is still a baffling mystery. They seem to defy logic. Everything that is known about lapidary work indicates that the skulls should have been shattered fractured, or fallen apart when carved."

http://www.world-mysteries.com/sar_6_1.htm

The simple answer would be that something had to be different when the crystal skulls were made.

Apparently life spans, and many things were different in the far past.

If you cannot produce for us one of these skulls, made in the here and now, I would have to conclude that the evidence suggests that the past was very different.

Anyone who knows anything at all about carving stone could tell you that your thread title is nonsense. Such things can be and are produced in the here and now using modern tools. Even those stone artifacts produced in the past using more primitive tools are hardly miraculous, and clear quartz and other stones have been carved into intricate forms, including elaborate vases for millennia. Museums in Europe are full of such works. Your source is making mysteries where none exist, and is obviously a person who knows little about either past or present artisans, their tools, or the time required to produce such artifacts.

I am an artist, and studied with and know both sculptors and jewelers, and am quite familiar with their work and what can be achieved even without modern grinding tools. I know several people in my province alone who could make a crystal skull if they wished to.
 
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Blayz

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Well, I suppose if we were a framed painting of a person on a wall, we would look OK as well. I think the issue would be that the things were some sort of art, or creations made by men at some point. Not that people were walking crystals in the 60ies, or whenever. Think about it.


What??? You spend your entire life telling us how the pre-flood was "different" and "we can never know what it was like"

And then you tow the line of the scientism lackies to suggest, in the complete absence of evidence and with unfounded conjecture, that these skulls were art???

That's silly. Clearly it is possible that in pre-flood times people had crystal skulls, and its only after the change that skulls were made of bone. In fact given the purty of crystal versus the weakness and imperfection of bone, I would say it is a more likely scenario. the crystal to bone replacement was a part of the continuing fall.

pre-flood there might not have been any art.
 
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plindboe

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Some people believe just anything they read. Whether it's accepted or not doesn't depend on veracity or sanity of the claims, but only on the bias of the individual. A fancy web page with some grand claims. An archaic book with some grand claims. Same thing.

Peter :)
 
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agentorange20

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"Crystal skull impossible to duplicate in the here and now. Why?

Where did you come up with this one, seriously?

Haven't you seen the movie 'House' (not sure which part, I think part II) in which there is a clear crystal skull displayed like 6 dozen times throughout the movie? And this was like 20 years ago!
 
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agentorange20

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Apparently life spans, and many things were different in the far past.

I am sorry, but your statement is not only wrong as today in the here and now crystal skulls were made as props for films, but it also is entirely a non-sequitur.

It doesn't follow at all, even if true that in the past people could make such crystal skulls, that this alone would somehow support or substantiate them living longer life spans at all. Where is the correlation between making a crystal skull and living 900 years long? Anyone?

It might indicate at best that they have a more advanced technology than previously thought, but it wouldn't support 900 year long life spans.
 
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dad

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Oh, but we can! We can! We can! Just look at this crystal skull

Crystal_Skullfinal.jpg

that was made for the movie, India . . . . . . . hold on a sec.


.
So if we send it to a lab, they will not know who made it, or what quarry it was from either?
 
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dad

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I am sorry, but your statement is not only wrong as today in the here and now crystal skulls were made as props for films, but it also is entirely a non-sequitur.

It doesn't follow at all, even if true that in the past people could make such crystal skulls, that this alone would somehow support or substantiate them living longer life spans at all. Where is the correlation between making a crystal skull and living 900 years long? Anyone?

It might indicate at best that they have a more advanced technology than previously thought, but it wouldn't support 900 year long life spans.

Well, the claim has been that they could not have made it, as they didn't have the wherewithal. Next, I never said they made it. If they never had the technology then, maybe it was found, and was a remnant from before the split, or flood, when the universe state was different.
See, I look at the possibility that they never made it also, except that I do not assume it had to be made after, and therefore must be a fraud. Not unless the evidence says so. So far, as I took the time to pint out, it doesn't.

The lifespans have nothing to do with crystal skulls. The long lifespans were just a feature of the different state past. The time when the skulls, or some of them may have been made. The time when the big pyramid of Egypt could easily be built. The time when there were spirits marrying women of earth. The time when all men spoke the same tonge. The time when we were likely not meat eaters, etc etc.
 
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ChordatesLegacy

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crystalskull-smithsonian.jpg


DAD you are without doubt the most illogical person I have ever had the pleasure of correcting.


As In­di­ana Jones rac­es to find an an­cient crys­tal skull in his new mov­ie ad­ven­ture, he might want to take a mo­ment to check its au­then­ticity.

New re­search sug­gests two well-known crys­tal skulls, in the Brit­ish Mu­se­um and the Smith­so­nian In­sti­tu­tion in Wash­ing­ton, are not, af­ter all, from an­cient Mex­i­co. Aca­demics now be­lieve the Brit­ish skull was made in 19th-cen­tu­ry Eu­rope and the Amer­i­can one even later.

The Brit­ish Mu­se­um bought its skull, a life-size carv­ing from a sin­gle block of rock crys­tal, from Tif­fa­ny and Co., New York, in 1897. Its ori­gins were un­known but there were sug­ges­tions it was of an­cient Mex­i­can or­i­gin.


Hu­man skulls worn as or­na­ments and dis­played on racks were known to have fea­tured in Az­tec art. The skull at­tracted much pub­lic at­ten­tion and specula­t­ion and was once thought to have heal­ing pow­ers.



Crys­tal skulls have since fea­tured in many books, ar­ti­cles and films, most re­cently in the new Ste­ven Spiel­berg mov­ie In­di­ana Jones and the King­dom of the Crys­tal Skull.



How­ev­er, there have been doubts about the au­then­ticity of the skull since the 1930s. Now an in­terna­t­ional re­search team has scru­tin­ized the Brit­ish Mu­se­um skull and a larg­er white quartz skull do­nat­ed to the Smith­so­nian in 1992.



Elec­tron mi­cro­scope anal­y­sis for tool marks found both skulls were carved with ro­ta­ry disc-shaped tool, a tech­nol­o­gy the an­cient Mex­i­cans didn’t have. Anal­y­sis of the quartz in the Brit­ish Mu­se­um skull sug­gests it was quar­ried from Bra­zil or Mad­a­gas­car – far out­side the An­cient Mex­i­cans’ trad­ing links.



The team, made up of ex­perts from Car­diff and King­ston uni­ver­s­ities in the U.K., the Brit­ish Mu­se­um and the Smith­so­nian, con­clud­ed that nei­ther skull could have been made in Mex­i­co be­fore the time of Co­lum­bus. They be­lieve the Brit­ish skull was cre­at­ed in Eu­rope in the 19th cen­tu­ry, and the Smith­so­nian’s shortly be­fore it was bought in Mex­i­co City in 1960.



“It is al­ways dis­ap­point­ing when an in­tri­guing ar­te­fact like a crys­tal skull turns out not to be gen­uine,” said Car­diff Uni­ver­s­ity’s Ian Free­stone, a mem­ber of the re­search team. “How­ev­er, it is im­por­tant to be pre­cise about what is au­then­tic and what is fake if we are prop­erly to un­der­stand our past. May­be In­di­ana Jones will have bet­ter luck in his hunt for a real crys­tal skul­l!”




The findings are to appear in The Journal of Archaeological Science.


LINK
 
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dad

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DAD you are without doubt the most illogical person I have ever had the pleasure of correcting.
Except you can't correct me, apparently, are you really thinking you can?

As In[wash my mouth]di[wash my mouth]ana Jones rac[wash my mouth]es to find an an[wash my mouth]cient crys[wash my mouth]tal skull in his new mov[wash my mouth]ie ad[wash my mouth]ven[wash my mouth]ture, he might want to take a mo[wash my mouth]ment to check its au[wash my mouth]then[wash my mouth]ticity.

New re[wash my mouth]search sug[wash my mouth]gests two well-known crys[wash my mouth]tal skulls, in the Brit[wash my mouth]ish Mu[wash my mouth]se[wash my mouth]um and the Smith[wash my mouth]so[wash my mouth]nian In[wash my mouth]sti[wash my mouth]tu[wash my mouth]tion in Wash[wash my mouth]ing[wash my mouth]ton, are not, af[wash my mouth]ter all, from an[wash my mouth]cient Mex[wash my mouth]i[wash my mouth]co. Aca[wash my mouth]demics now be[wash my mouth]lieve the Brit[wash my mouth]ish skull was made in 19th-cen[wash my mouth]tu[wash my mouth]ry Eu[wash my mouth]rope and the Amer[wash my mouth]i[wash my mouth]can one even later.
Shallow claim let's see the back up for it.
The Brit[wash my mouth]ish Mu[wash my mouth]se[wash my mouth]um bought its skull, a life-size carv[wash my mouth]ing from a sin[wash my mouth]gle block of rock crys[wash my mouth]tal, from Tif[wash my mouth]fa[wash my mouth]ny and Co., New York, in 1897. Its ori[wash my mouth]gins were un[wash my mouth]known but there were sug[wash my mouth]ges[wash my mouth]tions it was of an[wash my mouth]cient Mex[wash my mouth]i[wash my mouth]can or[wash my mouth]i[wash my mouth]gin.​
So?? Who cares? Even if it came from somewhere else, pre flood, and ended up there, what would it matter?​
Hu[wash my mouth]man skulls worn as or[wash my mouth]na[wash my mouth]ments and dis[wash my mouth]played on racks were known to have fea[wash my mouth]tured in Az[wash my mouth]tec art. The skull at[wash my mouth]tracted much pub[wash my mouth]lic at[wash my mouth]ten[wash my mouth]tion and specula[wash my mouth]t[wash my mouth]ion and was once thought to have heal[wash my mouth]ing pow[wash my mouth]ers.​
Hey, even if it was a pre flood crystal skull that started that fad, who cares?


Crys[wash my mouth]tal skulls have since fea[wash my mouth]tured in many books, ar[wash my mouth]ti[wash my mouth]cles and films, most re[wash my mouth]cently in the new Ste[wash my mouth]ven Spiel[wash my mouth]berg mov[wash my mouth]ie In[wash my mouth]di[wash my mouth]ana Jones and the King[wash my mouth]dom of the Crys[wash my mouth]tal Skull.​

So? Does that mean they are evil?


How[wash my mouth]ev[wash my mouth]er, there have been doubts about the au[wash my mouth]then[wash my mouth]ticity of the skull since the 1930s. Now an in[wash my mouth]terna[wash my mouth]t[wash my mouth]ional re[wash my mouth]search team has scru[wash my mouth]tin[wash my mouth]ized the Brit[wash my mouth]ish Mu[wash my mouth]se[wash my mouth]um skull and a larg[wash my mouth]er white quartz skull do[wash my mouth]nat[wash my mouth]ed to the Smith[wash my mouth]so[wash my mouth]nian in 1992.​
So? Show me the basis of their claims, and I will scrutinize it.


Elec[wash my mouth]tron mi[wash my mouth]cro[wash my mouth]scope anal[wash my mouth]y[wash my mouth]sis for tool marks found both skulls were carved with ro[wash my mouth]ta[wash my mouth]ry disc-shaped tool, a tech[wash my mouth]nol[wash my mouth]o[wash my mouth]gy the an[wash my mouth]cient Mex[wash my mouth]i[wash my mouth]cans didn’t have. Anal[wash my mouth]y[wash my mouth]sis of the quartz in the Brit[wash my mouth]ish Mu[wash my mouth]se[wash my mouth]um skull sug[wash my mouth]gests it was quar[wash my mouth]ried from Bra[wash my mouth]zil or Mad[wash my mouth]a[wash my mouth]gas[wash my mouth]car – far out[wash my mouth]side the An[wash my mouth]cient Mex[wash my mouth]i[wash my mouth]cans’ trad[wash my mouth]ing links.​
But if it was something found from pre flood, we can't say it was beyond theirs, now can we!!!!? No. So...are you building to some point?


The team, made up of ex[wash my mouth]perts from Car[wash my mouth]diff and King[wash my mouth]ston uni[wash my mouth]ver[wash my mouth]s[wash my mouth]ities in the U.K., the Brit[wash my mouth]ish Mu[wash my mouth]se[wash my mouth]um and the Smith[wash my mouth]so[wash my mouth]nian, con[wash my mouth]clud[wash my mouth]ed that nei[wash my mouth]ther skull could have been made in Mex[wash my mouth]i[wash my mouth]co be[wash my mouth]fore the time of Co[wash my mouth]lum[wash my mouth]bus. They be[wash my mouth]lieve the Brit[wash my mouth]ish skull was cre[wash my mouth]at[wash my mouth]ed in Eu[wash my mouth]rope in the 19th cen[wash my mouth]tu[wash my mouth]ry, and the Smith[wash my mouth]so[wash my mouth]nian’s shortly be[wash my mouth]fore it was bought in Mex[wash my mouth]i[wash my mouth]co City in 1960.​
Hogwash. They conclude squat, they deal in preconceptions that there was no super intelligence and ability pre flood. How would they know? They cannoot possibly knoow. They assume, and believe that the ones that ened up with the skulls couldn't makke them. I agree. So?? Focus, man.


“It is al[wash my mouth]ways dis[wash my mouth]ap[wash my mouth]point[wash my mouth]ing when an in[wash my mouth]tri[wash my mouth]guing ar[wash my mouth]te[wash my mouth]fact like a crys[wash my mouth]tal skull turns out not to be gen[wash my mouth]uine,” said Car[wash my mouth]diff Uni[wash my mouth]ver[wash my mouth]s[wash my mouth]ity’s Ian Free[wash my mouth]stone, a mem[wash my mouth]ber of the re[wash my mouth]search team. “How[wash my mouth]ev[wash my mouth]er, it is im[wash my mouth]por[wash my mouth]tant to be pre[wash my mouth]cise about what is au[wash my mouth]then[wash my mouth]tic and what is fake if we are prop[wash my mouth]erly to un[wash my mouth]der[wash my mouth]stand our past. May[wash my mouth]be In[wash my mouth]di[wash my mouth]ana Jones will have bet[wash my mouth]ter luck in his hunt for a real crys[wash my mouth]tal skul[wash my mouth]l!”​
Yes, pitiful, when some know it all misses the forest for the trees, and smugly talks as if he really is the whiz kid of all whiiz kids.



You lose Chordy.
 
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ChordatesLegacy

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DAD do you insert swear words into quoted text so than no one can read them. As far as the skulls go, they are 19th and 20th century fakes.


The origins of two purportedly pre-Columbian Mexican crystal skulls
Margaret Saxa, , , Jane M. Walshb, Ian C. Freestonec, Andrew H. Rankind and Nigel D. Meeksa
aDepartment of Conservation and Scientific Research, British Museum, London, WCIB 3DG, UK bDepartment of Anthropology, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC 20013-7012, USA cCardiff School of History and Archaeology, Cardiff University, Cardiff, CF10 3EU, Wales, UK dSchool of Earth Sciences and Geography, Kingston University, Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey, KT1 2EE, UK

Received 9 April 2008;
accepted 7 May 2008.
Available online 18 May 2008.

Abstract
The well-known life-size rock crystal skull in the British Museum was purchased in 1897 as an example of genuine pre-Columbian workmanship, but its authenticity has been the subject of increasing speculation since the 1930s. This paper is concerned with the history, technology and material of the skull and another larger white quartz skull, donated recently to the Smithsonian Institution. Manufacturing techniques were investigated, using scanning electron microscopy to examine tool marks on the artefacts, and compared with Mesoamerican material from secure contexts. A Mixtec rock crystal goblet and a group of Aztec/Mixtec rock crystal beads show no evidence of lapidary wheels. They were probably worked with stone and wood tools charged with abrasives, some of which may have been as hard as corundum. Textual evidence for Mexican lapidary techniques during the early colonial period, supported by limited archaeological evidence, also indicates a technology without the wheel, probably based on natural tool materials. In contrast, the two skulls under consideration were carved with rotary wheels. The British Museum skull was worked with hard abrasives such as corundum or diamond, whereas X-ray diffraction revealed traces of carborundum (SiC), a hard modern synthetic abrasive, on the Smithsonian skull. Investigation of fluid and solid inclusions in the quartz of the British Museum skull, using microscopy and Raman spectroscopy, shows that the material formed in a mesothermal metamorphic environment equivalent to greenschist facies. This suggests that the quartz was obtained from Brazil or Madagascar, areas far outside pre-Columbian trade networks. Recent archival research revealed that the British Museum skull was rejected as a modern artefact by the Museo Nacional de Mexico in 1885, when offered for sale by the collector and dealer, Eugène Boban. These findings led to the conclusion that the British Museum skull was worked in Europe during the nineteenth century. The Smithsonian Institution skull was probably manufactured shortly before it was bought in Mexico City in 1960; large blocks of white quartz would have been available from deposits in Mexico and the USA.
Keywords: Optical microscopy; Scanning electron microscopy; Raman spectroscopy; X-ray diffraction; Lapidary technology; Tool mark; Provenance; Fluid inclusion; Solid inclusion; Quartz; Crystal skull; Mexico; Pre-Columbian period; Authenticity


(a) White quartz skull with hollow cranium, # 409954 Natural History Museum, Smithsonian Institution, c. 25.5 cm high, c. 22.8 cm deep (photograph: J. Di Loreto and D. Hurlburt, Smithsonian Institution); (b,c) SEM images of moulds of carved features (British Museum photographs). (b) The moulded details of the teeth and mouth are similar to those in Fig. 1c, worked with rotary wheels. (c) Groups of fine parallel striations on the internal surface of the cranium lie across the image and are consistent with rotary tools; the coarse striation (arrowed) was probably made by an ‘improperly dressed’ bonded wheel (see text).





Fig. 1. (a) Rock crystal skull, 1898-1 British Museum, c. 15 cm high, 13.5 cm wide, 21 cm deep; (b) facial features and temporal fossa at the side; (c–e) SEM images of moulds of carved features (recessed features on the skull protrude upwards on the moulds). (c) Annotated, oblique view of the end of the mouth and two teeth (see text): the cuts along the additional narrow parts of the teeth (marked on upper tooth) and the mouth (arrowed) are convex here and reflect their concave depth in the skull, consistent with rotary wheel-cutting. The parallel striations retained in the polish along the temporal fossae (d) and on the base (e) are also wheel-cut. Natural flaws in the quartz surface protrude upwards on the mould (e): drag marks made by the abrasive reflect the use of a high-speed cutting action from left to right of the image. Although not to the same scale, the striations are finer in (d) than (e): finer abrasive was used for finishing the temporal fossae than the base, prior to polishing (British Museum photographs).


LINK to peer reviewed science paper on the authentisity of the skulls
 
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DAD do you insert swear words into quoted text so than no one can read them.

No.

As far as the skulls go, they are 19th and 20th century fakes.
A Mixtec rock crystal goblet and a group of Aztec/Mixtec rock crystal beads show no evidence of lapidary wheels. They were probably worked with stone and wood tools charged with abrasives, some of which may have been as hard as corundum.
Then, my point stands, they likely didn't make it, they may have ended up with them. So??

Textual evidence for Mexican lapidary techniques during the early colonial period, supported by limited archaeological evidence, also indicates a technology without the wheel, probably based on natural tool materials. In contrast, the two skulls under consideration were carved with rotary wheels. The British Museum skull was worked with hard abrasives such as corundum or diamond, whereas X-ray diffraction revealed traces of carborundum (SiC), a hard modern synthetic abrasive, on the Smithsonian skull.

Did you forget I already dealt with that, and how it is still found in nature? No reason exists to assume they never had the stuff pre flood.


Investigation of fluid and solid inclusions in the quartz of the British Museum skull, using microscopy and Raman spectroscopy, shows that the material formed in a mesothermal metamorphic environment equivalent to greenschist facies. This suggests that the quartz was obtained from Brazil or Madagascar, areas far outside pre-Columbian trade networks.


Yes, maybe even as far as pre flood places! They don't know.

Recent archival research revealed that the British Museum skull was rejected as a modern artefact by the Museo Nacional de Mexico in 1885, when offered for sale by the collector and dealer, Eugène Boban. These findings led to the conclusion that the British Museum skull was worked in Europe during the nineteenth century. The Smithsonian Institution skull was probably manufactured shortly before it was bought in Mexico City in 1960; large blocks of white quartz would have been available from deposits in Mexico and the USA.
Prove it. Nothing in the article does anything close. WHY was it rejected? Precisely? People who give links that are supposed to support their case ought to have some details! This is news?






(a) White quartz skull with hollow cranium, # 409954 Natural History Museum, Smithsonian Institution, c. 25.5 cm high, c. 22.8 cm deep (photograph: J. Di Loreto and D. Hurlburt, Smithsonian Institution); (b,c) SEM images of moulds of carved features (British Museum photographs). (b) The moulded details of the teeth and mouth are similar to those in Fig. 1c, worked with rotary wheels. (c) Groups of fine parallel striations on the internal surface of the cranium lie across the image and are consistent with rotary tools; the coarse striation (arrowed) was probably made by an ‘improperly dressed’ bonded wheel (see text).
Any reason the pre flood wheels wouldn't go round and round as well???




Fig. 1. (a) Rock crystal skull, 1898-1 British Museum, c. 15 cm high, 13.5 cm wide, 21 cm deep; (b) facial features and temporal fossa at the side; (c–e) SEM images of moulds of carved features (recessed features on the skull protrude upwards on the moulds). (c) Annotated, oblique view of the end of the mouth and two teeth (see text): the cuts along the additional narrow parts of the teeth (marked on upper tooth) and the mouth (arrowed) are convex here and reflect their concave depth in the skull, consistent with rotary wheel-cutting.
Whopee do, rotary action.

I though I covered this stuff about the first second or third time you started your cut and paste repeatathon? No?
 
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