Collapse of Protestantism in the USA

[Dominus Fidelis]

I would really be interested to see these quotes. These quotes sure do sound out of context to me considering all the works of Martin Luther I have read.

Sure...

This one will not hear of Baptism, and that one denies the sacrament, another puts a world between this and the last day: some teach that Christ is not God, some say this, some say that: there are as many sects and creeds as there are heads. No yokel is so rude but when he has dreams and fancies, he thinks himself inspired by the Holy Ghost and must be a prophet."
De Wette III, 61. quoted in O'Hare, THE FACTS ABOUT LUTHER, 208.

"Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers."
Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O'Hare, Ibid, 209.

"We concede -- as we must -- that so much of what they (the Catholic Church) say is true: that the papacy has God's word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?"
Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 - 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of LUTHER'S WORKS,
St. Louis, Mo.: Concordia, 1961, 304.

 

[ReformedChapin]

God started the Reformation in direct violation of His Word to not take part in schisms?

Which God is that?

How about you show me the quotes. I dont want to get accused of debating on here. Im really interested I am a big Luther fan.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Please do not promote ideas contrary to Catholicism in here - in every denomination-specific forum, that is not allowed (promoting ideas contrary to the particular denomination).

For Catholics, God does not promote disunity and the fracturing of His faithful. Catholics do not believe that Luther was led by God - he had some good ideas, but he stepped out of order, and even though he did not desire it, new denominations were formed. This is not a good thing; it is a bad thing. Our God is a God of clarity and unity, not of confusion and multiplicity.

As to the OP, interesting article. My perception is that evangelical Christianity is flourishing, though, especially in South America.

 

[ReformedChapin]

Sure...

This one will not hear of Baptism, and that one denies the sacrament, another puts a world between this and the last day: some teach that Christ is not God, some say this, some say that: there are as many sects and creeds as there are heads. No yokel is so rude but when he has dreams and fancies, he thinks himself inspired by the Holy Ghost and must be a prophet."
De Wette III, 61. quoted in O'Hare, THE FACTS ABOUT LUTHER, 208.

"Noblemen, townsmen, peasants, all classes understand the Evangelium better than I or St. Paul; they are now wise and think themselves more learned than all the ministers."
Walch XIV, 1360. quoted in O'Hare, Ibid, 209.

"We concede -- as we must -- that so much of what they (the Catholic Church) say is true: that the papacy has God's word and the office of the apostles, and that we have received Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the Sacrament, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them?"
Sermon on the gospel of St. John, chaps. 14 - 16 (1537), in vol. 24 of LUTHER'S WORKS,
St. Louis, Mo.: Concordia, 1961, 304.

Yep your deductions are out of order. But I can't debate that here.

Later

 

[hsilgne]

I can see by many of the posts here many of you don't understand trust historic protestantism. First of all the vast majority of evangelicalism has long moved away from historic protestant theology. Most of protestantism right now is dispensational in their theology with arminian tendencies. The reformers would be rolling in their graves.

However the reformers saw this as important and they knew it was going to happen. It is important to have religious freedom and have people believe what they want to believe. True Christians (God's elect) will always be guarded by him no matter how nutty the culture goes.

"True Christians" ?

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

"True Christians" ?

Sounds like some Calvinist "I'm saved, so let's get the fires of Hell a-roastin!"

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I would really be interested to see these quotes. These quotes sure do sound out of context to me considering all the works of Martin Luther I have read.

sure... I'll try to find them just a sec.

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Yep your deductions are out of order. But I can't debate that here.

Later

If you can't defend your claims, why even bother making them? It seems either inefficient or malicious.

 

[HisKid1973]

"True Christians" ?

Hey Bro...In all our churches there are wheat and tares all carrying the name "christian"... It doesn't take much time with them to know who they are following....We are know by our fruits...Peace to you my dear brother in Christ...All that we need is a good crisis and martial law to see who would be true to their faith in Christ...Lets prat we shine the light of Christ to those around us..

 

[Gwendolyn]

Sounds like some Calvinist "I'm saved, so let's get the fires of Hell a-roastin!"

For some reason that made me think of food. "Roastin'". Second thread in 10 minutes to make me think of food. Clearly, I should go eat something.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

oki I can't find them so I'm making a new thread

 

[MoNiCa4316]

Hey Bro...In all our churches there are wheat and tares all carrying the name "christian"... It doesn't take much time with them to know who they are following....We are know by our fruits...Peace to you my dear brother in Christ...All that we need is a good crisis and martial law to see who would be true to their faith in Christ...Lets prat we shine the light of Christ to those around us..

I'm sorry I'd have to disagree with this.. I mean, we dont know people's hearts right? Someone could be really struggling but trying their best with the grace they have been given.. not everyone is given extraordinary graces.

 

[Basil the Great]

I wonder what makes for a "true Christian"?

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I wonder what makes for a "true Christian"?

not being a Catholic oh I mean ..there are a VERY few "true Christian" Catholics.. but they are so few..and they're this in spite of Catholicism, not because of it hmm.. I've heard that so many times

 

[HisKid1973]

I'm sorry I'd have to disagree with this..

That's ok with me..The Lord knows who are His and will sort them out..What are extraordinary graces? There is a big differance from a struggler to one just warming pews and going through the motions..It's a lifestyle that shows in your word/deed whether you struggle or not..The tares will always be with us till Jesus seperates us..

 

[Joachim]

http://www.adherents.com/adh_branches.html#Christianity

Catholic 1,050,000,000
Orthodox/Eastern Christian 240,000,000

That's still a lot more than I realized.

Those numbers are wrong because they tend to only count those who register with a parish, in other words, they undercount.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

That's ok with me..The Lord knows who are His and will sort them out..

true, but my point is that we do not know about others we can't say who is saved and who is unsaved.. we only know about the Saints, since there is evidence they're in Heaven - the miracles of intercession..

What are extraordinary graces?

well it says in the Bible to whom much is given much is expected, to whom little is given little is expected.. some people live and die without ever hearing about Christianity.. others have access to all kinds of graces and become Saints... God is in the work of them all in different ways, and it will matter how they responded to the graces they were given. Not everyone is expected to be at the same level.

There is a big differance from a struggler to one just warming pews and going through the motions..It's a lifestyle that shows in your word/deed whether you struggle or not..The tares will always be with us till Jesus seperates us..

I just don't think we can always tell..

 

[Joachim]

In our area it's the bible/evangelical churches that are flourishing..It's the mainline churches that are loosing growth...We go to a small BIC church and we,ve gone from 50/60 to 250-300...Newcomers are like 2/3 from mainline Prot/Catholic churches and 1/3 unsaved/ unchurched...We opened a daycare and been have people come who have their children there...

I have seen a shift where people either are commited to Christ or just walking away from christianity...You can see that a major crisis shaking people up to find faith in Christ..Personally, I feel we are in the end times and it wouldn't take much to have christians and other dissidents rounded up...Then you will see who trusts Christ and who will deny him....I just saw a well know preacher sense something drastic in the near future...I have been fellowshipping with brethen at Catholic Awsners who started a thread talking about this...I thought it was pretty cool to have those following the signs of the times like fundies do...We talked about the chance of an anti pope leading a chunk of the flock away...May the Lord draw use closer and give us ears to hear..grace and peace to you..K

If you actually study prophecy you'll know a few things. First, end times is a very vague phrase, technically speaking, we have been in them since Christ was crucified. More importantly, if you take Revelation to be a prophetic work as I tend to, the events of Revelation unfold over the course of centuries not the course of a decade and I don't believe we have entered Revelation. I actually do believe it will be this millennium, but Sir Issac Newton himself made a prediction that it wouldn't be happening before 2060 and if you follow Jewish tradition, they believe that their "Mosiach" will be coming in the 7th Jewish millennium. That period of time does not start until the Jewish year 6000, which is 2240. For some strange reason, I do believe Christ's return will follow that rule because if it doesn't then the Jews are not going to accept him, yet again. The second time, he will have to be coming in a manner that is in full accordance with Jewish tradition because otherwise they won't accept him, and one of the things surrounding the second coming is that the Jews do accept him the second time around and do repent of crucifying him the first time around, even though prophecy said he had to be killed.


There is not going to be a persecution of Christians in this country. Try and persecute anyone in this country. Americans still believe too much in the idea of personal freedom to allow it. This is why we have more religious diversity here than in any other country.

 

[HisKid1973]

true, but my point is that we do not know about others we can't say who is saved and who is unsaved.. we only know about the Saints, since there is evidence they're in Heaven - the miracles of intercession..



well it says in the Bible to whom much is given much is expected, to whom little is given little is expected.. some people live and die without ever hearing about Christianity.. others have access to all kinds of graces and become Saints... God is in the work of them all in different ways, and it will matter how they responded to the graces they were given. Not everyone is expected to be at the same level.
OK, I understand the concept, to me all His grace is extraordinary..



I just don't think we can always tell..

I agree..God Bless you my dear sister in Christ.....I know you struggle but you sure reflect Jesus in it..

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I agree..God Bless you my dear sister in Christ.....I know you struggle but you sure reflect Jesus in it..

God bless you too.