Church: Mormon Founder Joseph Smith Wed 40 Wives, One As Young As 14

[drstevej]

For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

This sentence sounds like Josephish faux KJVish gibberish. Reminds me of:

“Now who can argue with that? I think we’re all indebted to Gabby Johnson for clearly stating what needed to be said. I’m particularly glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age.”

 

[mmksparbud]

I used the term "modern Christianity" in context to "today's Christianity", not to point to the trendy aspects that have surfaced in Christianity. I agree with much of what you said, disagree on other things, but you did not answer my question (highlighted in red above). Jesus left us in the capable hands of His apostles. He gave them a commission to spread His gospel to all the earth. What is the current status, or progress on that mandate?

Every time a Christian Church divides over the interpretation of the Bible, someone is changing His Gospel. Which one today is the pure Gospel of the Son of God? The correct interpretation of the Bible is only obtained by having scripture opened up on an individual basis by the Spirit, as illustrated by the disciples en route to Emmaus. When this happens, they who understand by this means are united in understanding. Where is this pure method found today?

For example from your post, you said: "That piece of fruit looked good, and there was someone whispering that God didn't really mean what He said, "ye shall not surely die"--you shall be as gods--nothing has changed--we still listen to the voice that speaks to our wants ..." I have heard many people say this was the great lie from Satan, to suggest we shall be as gods. Is that your understanding? Yet in the same chapter of Genesis, it says: 22 ¶And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

These, and so many other doctrines have essential significance to understanding God's overall plan, including the application of plural marriage. It requires understanding by the Spirit. That is why I re ask the question above in red.

I thought the majority of my post was an answer to your question!! If Adam and Eve, under such perfect conditions could still get it wrong, what makes you think we can't now?! The Holy Spirit leads us to God--our natures lead us away from him. We choose, more often than not, to follow not the guidance of the Holy Spirit, but our own wishes. Most people doesn't even question their doctrines, much less bring them to the Holy Spirit. Most grow up with them and are fully accepted and defended--not prayed over. Most of us have been taught what to believe and for those who are searching, when we find a teaching that suits us, we accept it and that's it. Sounds good--and that's what Adam and Eve did--we shall be gods sounds good---and what God said was--"they have become AS one of us, knowing good and evil."---IN THEIR FALLEN STATE THAY HAD BECOME AS ONE IF THEM KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL~ Not that they were gods as they are, but knowing good and evil--in no other sense had they become God. Becoming God was Satan's ambition--still is and he is still repeating that lie--just in a slightly different way through the LDS doctrine.

Adam and Eve also fell for another lie--thou shalt not surely die--the immortality of the soul. We all are immortal, we will all live forever--some in heaven, some in hell. But God said otherwise. He is the only immortal.


(1Ti 1:17) Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

(1Ti 6:15) Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;

(1Ti 6:16) Who ONLY hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

The saved are given access to the Tree of Life and eternal life as a reward.

(1Co 15:54) So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

(Joh 3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
(Joh 10:28) And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

The lost do not have access to the Tree of Life, nor do they get eternal life--they get eternal death--not eternal dying. They will get total destruction--they shall perish.

Plural marriages were not condoned by the disciples. They were given instructions as to who should be the leaders of the church,

(1Ti 3:2) A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

(1Ti 3:12) Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
(Tit 1:5) For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

(Tit 1:6) If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.

Bishops, deacons, elders, all===ONE WIFE. along comes JS 2,000 years later and says something contrary to scripture and people buy it!! And they still are buying it--Jeff Warrens, from prison still has his followers!!! Mothers and fathers still willing to give him their daughters!!--They haven't asked for the Holy Spirits leading, have they?--and if they have---they are not listening!!!

The doctrine of plural wives does not even require the guidance of the Holy Spirit---because the scriptures already say what to do and that needs no explanation, no interpretation!!! Flat out plainly written and understood by even children!!!

 

[Defensor Christi]

Jacob 2 -

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

Jacob 2???

 

[MormonFriend]

I find it ironic that a Church, accused of being designed and inspired by a fraud and sexual predator of children, could inspire a man like this.
BYU grad rescues child sex slaves – U N I V E R S E

 

[drstevej]

Where was he when Emma needed him?

 

[Ironhold]

Jacob 2???

LDS scripture.

 

[drstevej]

LDS scripture.

That explains the funky style. Yeah verily.

 

[drstevej]

Fanny Alger's wedding cake?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Fanny Alger's wedding cake?

Perhaps, but I think possibly more like this -

 

[Defensor Christi]

LDS scripture.

I dont think it is effective to use LDS scripture to defend your position...just sayin'

 

[MormonFriend]

Jacob 2 -

30 For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.

I dont think it is effective to use LDS scripture to defend your position...just sayin'

How did God raise up seed through Abraham?

 

[mmksparbud]

How did God raise up seed through Abraham?

Abraham chose to follow the counsel of Sarah and take another woman to bare him a child--and it was and still is a disaster! She and her child were caste out, but because God had promised Abraham that the promise would be to his seed, He kept His promise and allowed the child to live and all his offspring which are scattered throughout the middle east and are still causing the Jews trouble! That second wife caused a whole lot of trouble that is still being felt today!!

 

[bbbbbbb]

Abraham chose to follow the counsel of Sarah and take another woman to bare him a child--and it was and still is a disaster! She and her child were caste out, but because God had promised Abraham that the promise would be to his seed, He kept His promise and allowed the child to live and all his offspring which are scattered throughout the middle east and are still causing the Jews trouble! That second wife caused a whole lot of trouble that is still being felt today!!

Yes, it was because Abraham failed to trust God that Sarah, who was barren and well into her 90's, could have a child, much less a son. Sarah, herself, instigated the idea of using her servant Hagar, and Abraham went along with the idea. And God, in His mercy, allowed Sarah to bear the promised son, Isaac. God never fails, but we do and we suffer the consequences.

 

[Ironhold]

I dont think it is effective to use LDS scripture to defend your position...just sayin'

I'm attempting to explain.

 

[Defensor Christi]

How did God raise up seed through Abraham?

What does that have to do with the price of tea in China?

I'm attempting to explain.

By all means sir...explain...

 

[Ironhold]

As noted in LDS theology, God reserves the right to allow multiple spouses if he feels that there is a need for them.

Secondary support is often proffered in the form of 2 Samuel 12, emphasis mine -

8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

I've seen it argued that as Nathan said God "gave" David Saul's wives, it meant that God was cool with multiple spouses at that time, and only got mad because of Bathsheba.

 

[mmksparbud]

As noted in LDS theology, God reserves the right to allow multiple spouses if he feels that there is a need for them.

Secondary support is often proffered in the form of 2 Samuel 12, emphasis mine -

8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

I've seen it argued that as Nathan said God "gave" David Saul's wives, it meant that God was cool with multiple spouses at that time, and only got mad because of Bathsheba.

(Act 17:30) And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:


There are things in the old testament that God did allow--not happily as the case with Abraham--the verses I quoted in regards to the bishops, elders, deacons to have only one wife supersedes the past--just as marrying ones sister (or 1/2 sister in Abrahams case) became obsolete.

 

[Defensor Christi]

As noted in LDS theology, God reserves the right to allow multiple spouses if he feels that there is a need for them.

Secondary support is often proffered in the form of 2 Samuel 12, emphasis mine -

8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

I've seen it argued that as Nathan said God "gave" David Saul's wives, it meant that God was cool with multiple spouses at that time, and only got mad because of Bathsheba.

The problem is that Jesus made it quite clear...He did away with all thoughts of polygamy.

 

[drstevej]

Brigham Young...

“I could prove to this congregation that I AM YOUNG; for I could FIND MORE GIRLS WHO WOULD CHOOSE ME FOR A HUSBAND THAN CAN ANY OF THE YOUNG MEN.”
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 5, page 210)

And this one...

“Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and Sinner! When OUR FATHER ADAM came into the the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, ONE OF HIS WIVES WITH HIM.”
(Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1, page 50)

 

[ChetSinger]

As noted in LDS theology, God reserves the right to allow multiple spouses if he feels that there is a need for them.

Secondary support is often proffered in the form of 2 Samuel 12, emphasis mine -

8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

I've seen it argued that as Nathan said God "gave" David Saul's wives, it meant that God was cool with multiple spouses at that time, and only got mad because of Bathsheba.

I think to hold to the LDS position in this matter is to believe that Joseph Smith overrules the apostle Paul. Paul is clear that anyone who desires oversight of the church be the husband of one wife. And that's how the church has operated since he wrote those words. You guys certainly have a lot of faith in Joseph Smith.