Church a Burden?

[GreatFaith]

Mattan, I agree. Going to church, that is, being born-again should never be a burden, because it is not by works, but a free-choice made in God's image which we are all capable of and have this ability given to us to come to the cross to receive God's grace and gift of eternal life. It is no burden at all, for His yoke is easy. The burden, and a false one at that, is to consider going to a meeting of the church as going to the church, not recognizing those who are saved, where gathered together two or three or more, are already the church. Jesus said where two are gathered in His name, there is the church. So next time you think the deceptive phrase go to church created by Satan, correct yourself and accept the term, go to a church meeting, instead. This will give glory to God. If you are the church, then you don't go to church, since you would already be the church. Give this time to him in understanding this now.

 

[New_Wineskin]

going to church, to worship God, should never be a burden to any person.

Are there so few people who can worship the Lord by themselves without needing others to be around to see them doing so ?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Just how much time does any of give to Him, to whom we owe so much?

I like to spend all day/every day with Him . I don't know why people think that they can't spend any time with Him unless they are in a special building with lots of people around .

 

[Nadiine]

Are there so few people who can worship the Lord by themselves without needing others to be around to see them doing so ?

With all due respect, this comment seems to be applying wrongful motive to those who go to church... as if they're going only to be seen.

Technically, you/we can't know why each person goes, God judges that. But as I've said in other posts, the NT believers met weekly (on the 1st day of the week) together to give offerings, partake of the sacriments, fellowship & worship the Lord together.

As I view biblical examples, we shouldn't hold any disdain for the Hebrews verse on not forsaking the assembly of one another.

 

[New_Wineskin]

edited : post was not understood .

 

[Sephania]

OK, this thread is cleaned up and I am reopening it with the caveat that if it gets down and dirty again it will be closed permenatly. Also Please remember the rules of this site, and of this forum, NO Non-denoms debating in here.

Thank you

 

[Nadiine]

Why hae you not said anything to the person to whom I replied ? I was only replying in kind . You responding to me and not them is very telling - it shows that you agree with them and that you are of the same attitude that you accuse me .

First, thanks to our MOD for working so hard to clean up the thread to reopen it; I"m sure it would've been easier to just close it permanently. So thank you Zayit!


New_wineskin, I admit that I do agree with some people and disagree with others on the same topic ... But I think we all do, don't we? (unless you hold no specific view or don't know much about it personally).
On topics I haven't studied or am ignorant on, I tend to be a bystander or just inject generalities into the discussion... not holding a specific opinion.

But basically the way I operate on these forums is that I read posts separately and on their own merit for the statements made. When I see something that I don't agree with (due to scripture), I usually do inject a comment with what I believe to be true with some backup.
If we can't discuss an issue based on BIBLICAL/ spiritual FACTS, then how do we expect to come to truth? I think discussions work both ways, we can give insights and should be open to RECEIVING insights or new information.

It's nothing PERSONAL with me - on another thread topic, I might be in perfect agreement with you or someone else that i'm not in agreement with on another topic. you know?

So please don't take a disagreement by me as being 'against you' or ultimately taking sides permanently, OR that I'm judging your spirituality.
I do side with some people on some topics, yes... but it's never personal or in judgment.
And I ALWAYS base it on what I believe scriptures relay and that's why I include verses for support.

 

[Starcrystal]

Oh boy, I am gone for 48 hours and find the thread was closed and reopenned! I have no idea what happened but hope things stay peaceful. This was never intended for debate.... I simply wondered if anyone else had experienced what we have. Even if I did figure someone would post Heb 10:25 Which was posted.

Anyways, yesterday started out as bad. And I'll re-emphasize, CHURCH itself is not the burden, it's getting there. For example, Lisa has to get the baby ready and yesterday could not find his diaper bag. It ended up being burried under piles of other stuff. Then we make his bottle, in the mean time I am lugging laundry and water bottles up to the car. Mind you, we have to park 150 ' up a hill from the house so it's not like the car is right out the door.
So we get everything loaded, baby in car seat up there and Lisa can't find his bottle and doesn't remember where she put it, thinking it got lost in the small bag of whites she had carried up.
She heads back down to house after a frantic search... meanwhile we are already late because it's 10 AM and Bible study starts then. (It takes 10 - 15 minutes to drive to church). Lisa gets back to the house as I am searching for the bottle and find it where he had hidden it under his bottom in the car seat
Finally we take off and get to church at 10:30. Lisa doesn't want to go now so I get dropped off at church and she goes to do laundry (which is right next to the church). Besides, the baby was wailing by this time. After Bible study I go over to the laundry and find Lisa didn't have any money because the coin purse had been left on the bed... again we can blame the baby since he had been playing with it earlier.
I suggest maybe this was Gods way of telling her to go to the service but she is crying & stressed out and doesn't go. She loads the laundry back in the car and says forget doing it. I had offered to go get change at the store. So I go back to the church for service.
After church I find Lisa had driven back home to get the coin purse and had laundry going after all. I guess the Pastor & his wife had gone to talk to her between study & service as I had told them a little about what was going on. Ironically the pastors wife said there are times SHE DOESN'T even go to Church if she's stressed out and overburdened, so she understands!

Last night both Lisa and I didn't go. And we actually had a very nice evening, better than in a long time. No stress - no arguing over anything, no getting under each others feet. And the baby even cooperated. No screaming, crying or staying up late.

The final decision we reached was that I will go myself or with the baby Sunday morning and we will all 3 go at night since it gives Lisa more time to prepare and the baby will not be as difficult, plus it's only 1 hour instead of 2.

 

[SUNSTONE]

The bible says that we should provoke one another to good works.
So what I'm about to say is going to be brutally honest.

You're acting pathetic.

Now I know that stings, but that little sting is as good as it's going to get. Because you think that hurts, you keep on that path you're on and see how much more pain will come your way.

This is not just about you, this is about the family of Christ.
How can you be a family if you don't spend time with the other believers? What kind of family is that?
There are other lonely believers who need and enjoy spending time with other believers.
For some, the family of Christ is all they have.

 

[rosiecotton]

Oh boy, I am gone for 48 hours and find the thread was closed and reopenned! I have no idea what happened but hope things stay peaceful. This was never intended for debate.... I simply wondered if anyone else had experienced what we have. Even if I did figure someone would post Heb 10:25 Which was posted.

Anyways, yesterday started out as bad. And I'll re-emphasize, CHURCH itself is not the burden, it's getting there. For example, Lisa has to get the baby ready and yesterday could not find his diaper bag. It ended up being burried under piles of other stuff. Then we make his bottle, in the mean time I am lugging laundry and water bottles up to the car. Mind you, we have to park 150 ' up a hill from the house so it's not like the car is right out the door.
So we get everything loaded, baby in car seat up there and Lisa can't find his bottle and doesn't remember where she put it, thinking it got lost in the small bag of whites she had carried up.
She heads back down to house after a frantic search... meanwhile we are already late because it's 10 AM and Bible study starts then. (It takes 10 - 15 minutes to drive to church). Lisa gets back to the house as I am searching for the bottle and find it where he had hidden it under his bottom in the car seat
Finally we take off and get to church at 10:30. Lisa doesn't want to go now so I get dropped off at church and she goes to do laundry (which is right next to the church). Besides, the baby was wailing by this time. After Bible study I go over to the laundry and find Lisa didn't have any money because the coin purse had been left on the bed... again we can blame the baby since he had been playing with it earlier.
I suggest maybe this was Gods way of telling her to go to the service but she is crying & stressed out and doesn't go. She loads the laundry back in the car and says forget doing it. I had offered to go get change at the store. So I go back to the church for service.
After church I find Lisa had driven back home to get the coin purse and had laundry going after all. I guess the Pastor & his wife had gone to talk to her between study & service as I had told them a little about what was going on. Ironically the pastors wife said there are times SHE DOESN'T even go to Church if she's stressed out and overburdened, so she understands!

Last night both Lisa and I didn't go. And we actually had a very nice evening, better than in a long time. No stress - no arguing over anything, no getting under each others feet. And the baby even cooperated. No screaming, crying or staying up late.

The final decision we reached was that I will go myself or with the baby Sunday morning and we will all 3 go at night since it gives Lisa more time to prepare and the baby will not be as difficult, plus it's only 1 hour instead of 2.

One thing that might help, is to get everything ready the night before. Have all clothes out, baby bottles and everything ready so you don't have to search for it all on Sunday morning.
I know how frustrating it can be to try to find clothes, etc in the morning when you are trying to get yourself and kids ready and out the door.
So if you get everything (everything!) ready that you will need, the night before and have it all in one spot it will help tremendously in the morning! I also know that sometimes there are nights you are too tired to think about getting things ready and together. But it really doesn't take that long and it is so much easier and peaceful in the morning when it's all ready where you need it.
I try to get my kids to get all their stuff ready the night before so we aren't rushing to get up the lane to the school bus in the morning. There are still some mornings that are hectic, but it really does help when they have everything in their backpacks and ready to go the night before.

 

[Starcrystal]

The bible says that we should provoke one another to good works.
So what I'm about to say is going to be brutally honest.

You're acting pathetic.

Now I know that stings, but that little sting is as good as it's going to get. Because you think that hurts, you keep on that path you're on and see how much more pain will come your way.

This is not just about you, this is about the family of Christ.
How can you be a family if you don't spend time with the other believers? What kind of family is that?
There are other lonely believers who need and enjoy spending time with other believers.
For some, the family of Christ is all they have.

Oh for crying out loud!

Spiritual threats..... blahh. Probably endangering this thread to be closed again with such attacks, but whatever.
I simply stated the exact experience we had and the decision we came to - a decision that actually had been suggested by at least one person on this thread for us to go at different times, take turns, etc.

How can we be a family if we don't spend time with other believers? Simple. We're still family because we are through the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit!
I haven't seen my physical mother since 1999. Does that make her not family? I haven't seen my father since 1989. Is he not still my father, my family?
We do write and occasionally call, but have not had contact fellowship in years.

Now I wonder how many spoke to Moses after his 40 days on the mountain and said "You weren't down here to be in fellowship with us!" or Elijah when he was off in the wildreness, or John the baptist, or even Jesus. "Hey Jesus, how can you say you're Gods son when you were out of the temple for 7 WEEKS!!??"
Point being, since you mention good works, how do you know some of the "works" I do outside of church are far more effective and a blessing than 'works" done in church?
As I said earlier, my wife and I had a great evening. God wants husbands and wives to have good relationships, not to be stressed and argue over those stressors. So I wonder how god looks at our mutual decision not to attend a church service last night?

Oh, and last month we had a barbeque with the neighbors including one man who had just recommitted himself to the LORD. We skipped a special church service for this. And our conversation was certainly a blessing to the recommitted man.... there were 6 of us there. Was that not fellowship amongst the family of God? I think people put too much emphasis on the church BUILDING gatherings than simply fellowship with other believers in smaller groups..... in fact the latter can be more of a blessing I have seen.

 

[Bobber]

People talk about not forsaking the fellowshipping of ourselves together meaning in their mind going to church or to what they think of as a church building. Let me ask all here. Do you think its possilbe for one to go to a church building once or even twice a week and still be guilty of forsaking the fellowship of other believers, and somebody who doesn't go to church hasn't? What I mean is ive seen and been in alot of churches where the people come in say "Hey how you doing" no real discussion for the service starts, and the service ends they go all running out the door and say something like "See ya next week" and then they feel they've had fellowship.....Hasn't forsaking the fellowship of other believers really taking place there? Then on the other hand somebody who doesn't go to a church building [and granted I agree they should be hearing preaching etc] but they everyday go out of their way to make sure they talk and fellowship with other Christians in their work place, the place they live having people over for meals sharing the scriptures.....are some church goers really more guilty of forsaking the fellowship of other believers more then the one who doesn't actually go to a church building? Just wondering.

 

[Bobber]

I think people put too much emphasis on the church BUILDING gatherings than simply fellowship with other believers in smaller groups..... in fact the latter can be more of a blessing I have seen.

And like I said in my last post it seems many people that go to church are not really fellowshiping with other believers anyway....just "Hey how you doing" and then the service starts, and the after the service a quick "See ya next week" Not true in all cases maybe but many that ive seen.,I would suggest even though you can run into problems with it that home church will be the thing of the future....not just cell groups in homes but mulitiple house churches.....

 

[Nadiine]

And like I said in my last post it seems many people that go to church are not really fellowshiping with other believers anyway....just "Hey how you doing" and then the service starts, and the after the service a quick "See ya next week" Not true in all cases maybe but many that ive seen.,I would suggest even though you can run into problems with it that home church will be the thing of the future....not just cell groups in homes but mulitiple house churches.....

I don't think church has to even involve fellowship -- it's a benefit, but certainly not mandatory.
The benefit of assembling at a church is, 1) you are able to participate with REAL PEOPLE... real contact.
2) and others feel support by your presence...
Just being w/ a group of those who believe like you do is a GREAT benefit and boost to us.

Like group support. I know how many times I've felt so discouraged or alone thru the week; beat up spiritually. Then I get to church, and there's 250 other believers there, worshipping alongside me.
I LOVE IT! and I need it.

I just don't think it's even about US... it's about giving God some of our dedicated time and being there for others.

it's a NETWORK and it's BEAUTIFUL.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Oh for crying out loud!

Spiritual threats..... blahh. Probably endangering this thread to be closed again with such attacks, but whatever.
I simply stated the exact experience we had and the decision we came to - a decision that actually had been suggested by at least one person on this thread for us to go at different times, take turns, etc.

How can we be a family if we don't spend time with other believers? Simple. We're still family because we are through the blood of Christ and the Holy Spirit!
I haven't seen my physical mother since 1999. Does that make her not family? I haven't seen my father since 1989. Is he not still my father, my family?
We do write and occasionally call, but have not had contact fellowship in years.

Now I wonder how many spoke to Moses after his 40 days on the mountain and said "You weren't down here to be in fellowship with us!" or Elijah when he was off in the wildreness, or John the baptist, or even Jesus. "Hey Jesus, how can you say you're Gods son when you were out of the temple for 7 WEEKS!!??"
Point being, since you mention good works, how do you know some of the "works" I do outside of church are far more effective and a blessing than 'works" done in church?
As I said earlier, my wife and I had a great evening. God wants husbands and wives to have good relationships, not to be stressed and argue over those stressors. So I wonder how god looks at our mutual decision not to attend a church service last night?

Oh, and last month we had a barbeque with the neighbors including one man who had just recommitted himself to the LORD. We skipped a special church service for this. And our conversation was certainly a blessing to the recommitted man.... there were 6 of us there. Was that not fellowship amongst the family of God? I think people put too much emphasis on the church BUILDING gatherings than simply fellowship with other believers in smaller groups..... in fact the latter can be more of a blessing I have seen.

Crying out loud seems to be the only thing you are doing.
Crying about this, crying about that.

Just listen to yourself.
Getting the baby ready and putting him in the car is a burden????
How much of a burden could that be??? What does he do the other 6 days? Run around naked because it's such a burden to dress him?

And what does you and your wife argue about on the way to church?

And what's up with the title thread "Is church a burden?"
Why don't you title it the way it really is for you.
Is anyone else suffering from the burden of getting a baby ready for church so much so that they decided not to go???

lol

 

[Elesaid]

OK, this thread is cleaned up and I am reopening it with the caveat that if it gets down and dirty again it will be closed permenatly. Also Please remember the rules of this site, and of this forum, NO Non-denoms debating in here.

Thank you

That is a confusing rule. I go to a non denominational church but I speak in tongues so I put the pentecostal picture on my profile. Does that mean that because I have that little picture there that I can't talk to people with a non denominational picture on their profiles?

 

[Godslilgurlalways]

No, this is not an anti church topic!

I am just wondering if there are any others out there who find going to church a burden on their schedual? Or is my family the only one? (Can't be!)

I'm not saying that you don't enjoy church services or get involved. We do, when we go.
Recently we've been more regular because we found a church only 7 miles away as compared to the other one we went to before that was 23 miles on back roads (about 45 minutes one way).

Here's the issue: people work 5 -6 days a week. In our case my wife is gone 11 - 12 hours a day, and I work what hours I can cutting wood, building, and then taking care of our 11 month old while my wifes working. She is dog tired most of the time. So am I. Often I'll work on our land longer Saturday than weekdays because she's home with the baby. And sometimes neighbors want us to do things with them or go to some place. So there goes saturday.

Then Sunday comes. We're burnt out. But, have to get up by 8 AM, get ready, get baby ready, be out the door at 9:40 to be to Sunday school/bible study. Services go from 10 - 12, then that's the day we do laundry so are not home till 2. Then back to church for evening services. (5:30 - 7:30 PM). When we went to the church further away it was even more hours, especially when we rode with the neighbor who always went out to eat after church. Gone 9:30 Am till 4:00 PM. The day was shot.

Again, we enjoyed services but had no rest. And I am not one who believes you HAVE to be in church regularly to serve God. I'd like to but there is often little time. Or I'll go but Lisa stays home because she's too tired. The other day she almost fell asleep driving to work and caught herself almost going in a ditch. that's a concern.
But if she doesn't work there's no money. If I don't work on our land there's no wood for heat, the leaves and brush will pile up making a fire hazard, and our son won't have a room for his own, or a bathroom to potty train in the next 6 months when he'll probably start needing those things. the garden needs work or we won't be able to supplement some of our food. (Though that season is pretty much over now except tilling in compost for the winter and some fence repair that needs done.)

I'm sure if others experience the same things there might be different circumstances. But what it boiled down to is that church is the one thing at the end of the week that becomes burdensome - at least to get ready, get out the door, and just be away from the house for those hours.... even if we are blessed by the message or move of the Spirit while at church.
Wednesday night Bible study is out. I have no car to go, wife is at work during those hours, and neighbors go to the more distant church. I tried going with them once but it totally messed up my sons sleep schedual and he wailed for some time after we got home.

I know, the solution would be for God to change the earths rotation so that we have 30 hour days!
Or give us income oportunities like we had before where we can work from home and one of us does not have to wear themselves out driving to and from a job and working 8 hours.

Anyone else ever feel like going to church can be a burden?

To me personally it doesn't seem like going to church is a burden.

I didn't realize how come you don't just go to one an example would be go to the later service one so that you have time to do things that needs to be done including rest and still be able to go to church and all.

 

[Nadiine]

That is a confusing rule. I go to a non denominational church but I speak in tongues so I put the pentecostal picture on my profile. Does that mean that because I have that little picture there that I can't talk to people with a non denominational picture on their profiles?

Hi Elesaid

As I understand the denominational/posting rules, you can be of 1 denomination and post in another denom.
I post alot in the reformed area.

What I think you can't do is, DEBATE/attack in another's denomination. Like if I went into the Reformed area & started debating against Calvanism... that's wrong because it's an attack on their denomination- beliefs.

You CAN debate 'Calvanism' in your own denominational thread tho.
I think that's so you can be in a "SAFE" area with people who share the same basic denominational beliefs as you without having to sit & defend yourself in your own area. (a safe haven) in your own denom.

You CAN go to the Theology/apologetics areas where it's more 'neutral' - there, you can debate practically everything without denominational issues.
That's how I view it. Hope that helps?

 

[New_Wineskin]

Edited : post was not understood .

 

[LisaStar]

Crying out loud seems to be the only thing you are doing.
Crying about this, crying about that.

Just listen to yourself.
Getting the baby ready and putting him in the car is a burden????
How much of a burden could that be??? What does he do the other 6 days? Run around naked because it's such a burden to dress him?

And what does you and your wife argue about on the way to church?

And what's up with the title thread "Is church a burden?"
Why don't you title it the way it really is for you.
Is anyone else suffering from the burden of getting a baby ready for church so much so that they decided not to go???

lol

I'll try to be nice.
First of all no one knows our life and what we have been through hell for the past year and a half. You know, most people wouldn't even be able to survive, or they would be crazy or turn to drinking or something.

People take for granted we have all the modern conveniences but we don't. Getting our son ready is only one of a multitude of problems we face, and for your information yes it is a burden to carry a 25 pound baby in car seat up to the car because its on a hill and not right in an attached garage. We do it, but I do not look forward to it. Both my husband and I have had problems with our wrists and tendons so to carry anything a distance is a burden. But we do it. Get it? We do it!

I am going to list some things we have been through since May 2005, and then tie it in with this topic about going to church being a burden.

In May 2005 I was pregnant on a boat in Alaska and was working 16 hour days with a disabled client that was hard work. I nearly lost the baby.
We sold the boat and I had to camp out for two weeks. It's still cold in alaska then and I was about 3 months pregnant.
My husband had gone on before me to Oregon to prepare a place for us on our land. I had to get everything off the boat and in my car by myself. It was work i shouldn't even have been doing while I was preganant.
Then I finally get on the ferrie and go down south. We drive 600 miles and have to camp again on the way. We get to the land and there we spent two nights in the car on top of a cold and windy mountain.
This is when we both decided we would not be able to make this work since it was 25 miles away and would not be accessable in winter, and my baby was due in December.
We packed up again and drove almost 3000 miles to my mothers. She had promised we could stay till after I had the baby. Aftyer 6 weeks she threw us out! Waking us up at 4 in the morning. So here we were camping again for a couple weeks till our friend in Ohio told us to drive over there.
We went to Ohio where we lived 6 months and there I had the baby last November.
We moved to the Ozarks in January with a two month old infant. We had sold our land in Oregon and bought land in the Ozarks. And we had to go at the end of january. I stayed in motels, or in the car one or two nights while my husband built a 12 X 16 cabin. Two weeks after we arrived we moved in. My husband had camped in a tent most of that time.
So we moved in and here we had bare necessities, namely a wood stove for heat and a propane stove to cook and an air mattress on the floor. Our baby had a playpen basinette to sleep in so he was off the floor.
No electric, no running water. In fact we only had candle light at first.
Then in February we lost 7000 dollars in our online business because of scammers. That put a dead stop to our building and everything on hold. And right at that time our air mattress blew out and we had to sleep like Klingons on a hard plywood board for a couple weeks till we finally found a mattress we could afford.
We slightly recovered from this and began making money again but in June we got ripped off when the company made some bad business investments and lost our money. We lost 4000 in June. By then it was 95 to 100 degrees every day and we just lived in sticky nasty sweat. My mother in law finally sent us money to get electric and an air conditioner.
Meanwhile my husband had built a 5 X 10 addition during the time we had recovereed a little money online.
Then in August I had to go to work because we were rapidly going broke.
And that brings us to our presnt situation.

Now what I want to tell you is that from October 2004 to May 2006 I set foot in a church once and my husband twice. In 20 months time we did not attend church. But through all that hardship GOD NEVER ABANDONED US!!! What makes you think for some reason you aren't with God if you don't go to church?

Last summer when we got thrown out we had no place to go but we prayed and God said he would provide. An online friend we had never met invited us to stay with her. In fact she told us when she bought her house which was an old converted church - that she felt god gave her that place to help people who eneded a place some day. She felt we were those people and she said she felt God wanted us there. Obviously God provided for us in our need and we could hear God and experience God without church!!
That's where my baby was born, that's where my husband found online income to be able to make enough so we could move when we had to, and that's where he had the time to locate the land we eventually bought.
Even being thrown out of my Moms was a blessing. It was oppressive there. there was bad spiritual activity. We saw dark stuff. My husband was freaking out and itching to get out of there and I remember he rejoiced when we got to the campground and felt it was the hand of God and quoted the verse that God works all together for Good to those who love God. Sure enough within a couple days we had a place to go.

I'm sorry if this is long but it explains our exact situation. A lot of people wouldn't be able to take it at all. Yes, we complain. Yes, I feel overwelmed sometimes. It';s hard. But we also can look back and see Gods hand in our lives, even in little things while we were travelling that he was there even if we didn't go to church at all.

Oh, what do we argue about? I don't like having to get up to be somewhere at some certain time on my day off, and I am going to stay home and go later in the evening service from now on.