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Don't even get me started on that topic LOLI have come across people who advocate "Once Saved Always Saved"
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Don't even get me started on that topic LOLI have come across people who advocate "Once Saved Always Saved"
A hot button issue for you?Don't even get me started on that topic LOL
From the posts in this thread, I don't think you've got any concept of grace. What you're clearly promoting is earned grace. The reward for which is death. Rom 3:23How many times have I heard some Christians complain that they are against "works salvation" by which they mean they don't want a Christian faith that demands anything of them??? I have news for them. Christ demands EVERYTHING of us. OUR VERY LIVES are to be a living sacrifice unto him. That said, how can you complain about God asking our obedience, our faithfulness, our good works? "For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works" Eph 2:10. Yes, we are saved by Grace, but not a cheap grace!
That is probably not true; that is to say it is unlikely that Open Heart is promoting earned grace because that would truly be an oxymoron and one ought never to assume that one's interlocutor is engaging in that kind of illogic.From the posts in this thread, I don't think you've got any concept of grace. What you're clearly promoting is earned grace. The reward for which is death. Rom 3:23
bugkiller
Since I was 11. I'm 54. LOLA hot button issue for you?
You can think that all you want buggie. But I'm saved by grace, and my gratitude has no words. Grace is not someething I earn, I totally get that. You are having a hard time understanding my position.From the posts in this thread, I don't think you've got any concept of grace. What you're clearly promoting is earned grace. The reward for which is death. Rom 3:23
Not at all. I'm not that brilliant. I learned the terms by reading the Catholic Lutheran Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification that was issued in 2000. It was a watershed in Church history; you really should read it, as it heals the whole faith/works disagreement between Catholics and Lutherans.
Our Christian life doesn't end with our salvation. Repentance means we have returned to God's way, that we now walk with God. It is a way of life. There is a ton of verses that talk about this (froggie are yu paying attention?):
To walk this Christian walk of good works and obedience, we cannot do it on our own. It takes the grace of God. Thus we speak of GRACE FOR THE JOURNEY.
- For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do goodworks, which God prepared in advance for us to do. Eph 2:10
- What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? James 2:14-26
- In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Matt 5:16
- First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds. Acts 26:20
- but with good deeds, appropriate for women who profess to worship God. 1 Tim 2:10
- Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 1 Tim 6:18
- And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds Hebrews 10:24
- to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up Eph 4;12
- Then everyone will know there is no truth in these reports about you, but that you yourself are living in obedienceto the law. Acts 21:24
- Through him we received grace and apostleship to call all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith for his name’s sake. Romans 1:5
- Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you Romans 16:19
- so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from faith Romans 16:26
- Because of the service by which you have proved yourselves, others will praise God for the obedience that accompanies your confession of the gospel of Christ, and for your generosity in sharing with them and with everyone else. 2 Cor 9:13
- And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. 2 John 1:6
I am sure that buggie appreciates permission to think as he will.You can think that all you want buggie. But I'm saved by grace, and my gratitude has no words. Grace is not someething I earn, I totally get that. You are having a hard time understanding my position.
You're being a false witness against the Frog. I know what he understand on about Eph2:10. He can distinguish that Paul is talking about grace in these words.Oh, froggie doesn't like that one.
Who is trying to get around scriptures?Again, initial grace is free. Grace for the journey requires a response from us. You can't get around the scriptures. You can't tell God that what he is doing just doesn't fit into your definition.
Because Grace does not save in itself. It's by Grace that God enables us to be saved, either by imparting Faith OR by counting your efforts to your credit (the latter of which I think is your view of the matter).You can think that all you want buggie. But I'm saved by grace, and my gratitude has no words. Grace is not someething I earn, I totally get that. You are having a hard time understanding my position.
Earned is completely the wrong word. There is an interplay thereafter, where we respond to our salvation with obedience, and God responds to us with grace so that we might obey.They say what you say? That God's grace is initially free, but then must be earned by required works?
It is an interplay. We live obediently to receive continued grace for the journey. And God gives us that grace so that we might obey. It's a circle.It is only we who do live by faith in Christ who are obedient...indeed it is only we who can be obedient.
Earned is completely the wrong word. There is an interplay thereafter, where we respond to our salvation with obedience, and God responds to us with grace so that we might obey.
It is an interplay. We live obediently to receive continued grace for the journey. And God gives us that grace so that we might obey. It's a circle.
So you agree then that obedience and good works ARE a necessary part of our Christian walk?Biblically "walk" refers to how we live. And scripture is clear that how we live is by faith in Jesus Christ. It is by the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ that we are saved and it is how we continue to live. It is only we who do live by faith in Christ who are obedient...indeed it is only we who can be obedient.
The Lutherans say what Catholics say, that initial justification is by grace alone and not earned, but that the subsequent journey requires faithfulness, obedience, and good works. After years of dialogue it turned out that the disagreement was one of semantics, where Lutherans meant one thing by justification (initial justification) and Catholics were meaning an entirely different thing (ongoing justification/sanctification). Use of the new vocabulary adopted by both sides has led to the mutual declaration.They say what you say? That God's grace is initially free, but then must be earned by required works?
So you agree then that obedience and good works ARE a necessary part of our Christian walk?
The Lutherans say what Catholics say, that initial justification is by grace alone and not earned, but that the subsequent journey requires faithfulness, obedience, and good works. After years of dialogue it turned out that the disagreement was one of semantics, where Lutherans meant one thing by justification (initial justification) and Catholics were meaning an entirely different thing (ongoing justification/sanctification). Use of the new vocabulary adopted by both sides has led to the mutual declaration.