Catholic Eucharist Actual Blood and Body?

[3rdHeaven]

How many knew that the Catholics believe the bread and wine they get at the Eucharist is said to be transubstantiated (changed in substance) into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, Lord and God.

This really sounds pagan to me. Is it over the top to any one else? They really think they are drinking Jesus actual blood and eating His flesh!

 

[judechild]

The Church is liturgical, which means we have a sense of Sacred Space (the Incarnation forever sealed the holiness of space), and a sense of Sacred Time; e.g., we fast on Friday not just to remember Jesus' sacrifice, but to enter into that mystery.

Because the Church is liturgical, then, we look at Scripture which says "This is my Body" and Tradition which says "Yep, it is!" and we encounter our Savior at this crossroad of Sacred Space (the host) and Sacred Time (the Mass). The faith is not for us a mental, abstract thing. When Jesus says "do this in remembrance of me" we do it not because we forgot about Him, but because we always need to encounter Him really and incarnationally.

We believe you are right; it is over-the-top. It's over-the-top in the same way as the Incarnation is over-the-top. The Infinite, Omnipresent, Omnipotent, Transcendent God became a zygote in the womb of the Blessed Virgin. God is a poor actor.

Every day in the Mass, I now enter into Sacred Space and Time, and walk with the Apostles on the road to Emmaus where Jesus "beginning with Moses and all the prophets, [interprets]... what referred to Him in all the scriptures" (Lk. 24:27) and then He is "made known... in the breaking of the bread" (v. 35).

And recently, the texts of the Mass were revised. One of the alterations is the prayer before Communion. The people used to say "Lord, I am not worthy to receive You, but only say the word and I shall be healed." The text is now "Lord, I am not worthy that You should come under my roof, but only say the word and my soul shall be healed." It is apropriate that we now say the exact words of the centurion. The action is acknowledged as Jesus'; it is Jesus who freely choose to come to us in this way.

We love the Eucharist because we love the over-the-top God.

 

[ViaCrucis]

How many knew that the Catholics believe the bread and wine they get at the Eucharist is said to be transubstantiated (changed in substance) into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, Lord and God.

This really sounds pagan to me. Is it over the top to any one else? They really think they are drinking Jesus actual blood and eating His flesh!

While Transubstantiation is a specific Roman Catholic understanding of the Eucharist, Christians have throughout the entirety of history believed in the Real Presence, that it is the actual body and blood of Jesus (not symbols).

It's not unique to Roman Catholicism, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans and others fully affirm that the Eucharist is the true body and blood of the Lord Jesus.

We aren't receiving symbols of Jesus, we are receiving the actual Jesus. The same Jesus who was born, lived, died and rose from the dead is the Jesus we receive in the elements of bread and wine which are really and truly flesh and blood. As the Lord said, "This is My body" and "This is My blood".

As said, this is simply what Christians have always believed, going back to Holy Scripture itself.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Knee V]

Recall that even in the Old Testament the sacrifice was consumed.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

Recall that even in the Old Testament the sacrifice was consumed.

That is correct and the early Reformers, in keeping with the understanding of the ancient church, ALL confirmed that we receive the Body and Blood of Christ. They just explained it a little diefferent. Even Calvin had a higher view of the Lord's Supper than today's evangelicals. It was Zwingli and the Anabaptists that taught it was purely symbolic. Unfortunately that is the view that won out in much of Protestant theology, except for the Lutherans and the Anglicans.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

While Transubstantiation is a specific Roman Catholic understanding of the Eucharist, Christians have throughout the entirety of history believed in the Real Presence, that it is the actual body and blood of Jesus (not symbols).

It's not unique to Roman Catholicism, Orthodox, Lutherans, Anglicans and others fully affirm that the Eucharist is the true body and blood of the Lord Jesus.

We aren't receiving symbols of Jesus, we are receiving the actual Jesus. The same Jesus who was born, lived, died and rose from the dead is the Jesus we receive in the elements of bread and wine which are really and truly flesh and blood. As the Lord said, "This is My body" and "This is My blood".

As said, this is simply what Christians have always believed, going back to Holy Scripture itself.

-CryptoLutheran

Amen and amen

 

[3rdHeaven]

I don't believe Jesus meant us to take it literally that the wine would turn in to his blood and the bread would turn in to his body and we would actually ne drinking his blood and eating his body. Figuratively makes more sense. The wine represents his blood, not turns in to it. The bread represents his body, not turns in to. Do this in memory of me. He never said the wine will turn in to his blood or the bread will turn in to his body and no further word regarding that is ever explained or mentioned, yet we leap to the literal translation instantly. Just sounds over the top to me.

 

[cajunhillbilly]

Paul said that when we eat the bread and drink the wine we have commuinion with the Body and Blood. Plus if you read the earliest church fathers, those taught by the apostles, they believe the bread and wine to be the Body and Blood of Christ.

 

[MrPolo]

I don't believe Jesus meant us to take it literally that the wine would turn in to his blood and the bread would turn in to his body and we would actually ne drinking his blood and eating his body. Figuratively makes more sense. The wine represents his blood, not turns in to it. The bread represents his body, not turns in to. Do this in memory of me. He never said the wine will turn in to his blood or the bread will turn in to his body and no further word regarding that is ever explained or mentioned, yet we leap to the literal translation instantly. Just sounds over the top to me.

Well, what does all the text say? The teaching about eating Jesus' body in John 6 comes on the heels of 2 other miracles, so in a sense, it makes more sense to believe that the Eucharist is one too. Also, Paul says that the blessed bread and wine are to be "discerned" as Jesus' body.

1 Cor. 11:29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning (diakrin&#333 the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself.​

The Greek word there means to make a distinction, to determine, discern. It takes eyes of faith to discern Christ's body sacramentally present in the bread and wine.

 

[virgilio]

How many knew that the Catholics believe the bread and wine they get at the Eucharist is said to be transubstantiated (changed in substance) into the body and blood of Jesus Christ, Lord and God.

This really sounds pagan to me. Is it over the top to any one else? They really think they are drinking Jesus actual blood and eating His flesh!

Hi 3rdHeaven greetings,
" IF" this is actually true, then we can considered that man are carnivorous
mammal and a breed of vampire.God forbid.

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

 

[virgilio]

Hi All greetings,
I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which cometh down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: yea and the bread which I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove one with another, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Jesus therefore said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, ye have not life in yourselves. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him. As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father; so he that eateth me, he also shall live because of me. This is the bread which came down out of heaven: not as the fathers ate, and died; he that eateth this bread shall live for ever. John 6:48-58

I decide to post this in whole so, everyone can examine and study the context and substance of this Scripture. One should not read and take this literally because it is figurative and symbolical when Jesus use the bread and wine in substituting his flesh and blood.

As a guideline in interpreting this word we must apply a very important word of Jesus in John 6:63 It is the spirit that giveth life; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I have spoken unto you are spirit, are are life.

In able to rationalize the in depth meaning why Jesus teaches this doctrine and how it was related in his mission on earth to redeem the sins of the world and how it (flesh and blood) took efficacy as a New Covenant.

Due to character limitation I shall continue this on next post.

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

 

[virgilio]

Breaking, eating of flesh (bread of life) and drinking of blood (wine or living water) was proclaim by Jesus many days before his persecution by Jews Scribes and Pharisee. This is officially promulgated in the night of Passover wherein he radically used bread and wine as substitution of his body (flesh and blood).The feast of Passover or feast of Unleavened Bread Jews traditionally eat bread bake without yeast or in spiritual essence a pretended deceit doctrine of man.

For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me.In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:23-27)

We must bear in mind that the divine mission of Jesus is for the forgiveness of sin and redemption from the power of darkness to his everlasting lightness. Forgiveness of sin cannot be attain through eating bread of man and drinking wine but through his name. To him bear all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them that heard the word. I write unto you, my little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. (Acts 10:43-44, 1 John 2:12)

How do his name correlated to his body? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which cometh down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. (John1:1, 14, Matthew 4:4, John 6:48-50) This is with relevancy in Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy words were unto me a joy and the rejoicing of my heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD, God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16
[FONT=&quot]
As we know he name Jesus was only given when he was born in Jerusalem but Scripture indicated that [/FONT]the WORD was in the beginning was with God and it was prayed by Jesus to the Father that he be glorify. And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

(Pause due to character limitation)

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

 

[washedagain]

I don't believe Jesus meant us to take it literally that the wine would turn in to his blood and the bread would turn in to his body and we would actually ne drinking his blood and eating his body. Figuratively makes more sense. The wine represents his blood, not turns in to it. The bread represents his body, not turns in to. Do this in memory of me. He never said the wine will turn in to his blood or the bread will turn in to his body and no further word regarding that is ever explained or mentioned, yet we leap to the literal translation instantly. Just sounds over the top to me.

Think of it this way... .If Jesus were literal, Jesus was at the last supper holding himself in His hand and eating Himself.

Just something to think about.

 

[washedagain]

Paul said that when we eat the bread and drink the wine we have commuinion with the Body and Blood. Plus if you read the earliest church fathers, those taught by the apostles, they believe the bread and wine to be the Body and Blood of Christ.

And Paul called the bread, bread, the wine, wine...

 

[washedagain]

Breaking, eating of flesh (bread of life) and drinking of blood (wine or living water) was proclaim by Jesus many days before his persecution by Jews Scribes and Pharisee. This is officially promulgated in the night of Passover wherein he radically used bread and wine as substitution of his body (flesh and blood).The feast of Passover or feast of Unleavened Bread Jews traditionally eat bread bake without yeast or in spiritual essence a pretended deceit doctrine of man.

For I received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus in the night in which he was betrayed took bread; and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me.In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink the cup, ye proclaim the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat the bread or drink the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 11:23-27)

We must bear in mind that the divine mission of Jesus is for the forgiveness of sin and redemption from the power of darkness to his everlasting lightness. Forgiveness of sin cannot be attain through eating bread of man and drinking wine but through his name. To him bear all the prophets witness, that through his name every one that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins. While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Spirit fell on all them that heard the word. I write unto you, my little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake. (Acts 10:43-44, 1 John 2:12)

How do his name correlated to his body? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us (and we beheld his glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father), full of grace and truth.But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. I am the bread of life. Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. This is the bread which cometh down out of heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. (John1:1, 14, Matthew 4:4, John 6:48-50) This is with relevancy in Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy words were unto me a joy and the rejoicing of my heart: for I am called by thy name, O LORD, God of hosts. Jeremiah 15:16
[FONT=&quot]
As we know he name Jesus was only given when he was born in Jerusalem but Scripture indicated that [/FONT]the WORD was in the beginning was with God and it was prayed by Jesus to the Father that he be glorify. And now, Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

(Pause due to character limitation)

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

Very good post! Do you know of the symbolic meanings of the 4 cups of wine and the 4 matzos that are part of the Seder?

 

[judechild]

Think of it this way... .If Jesus were literal, Jesus was at the last supper holding himself in His hand and eating Himself.

And that is exacty what St. Augustine said about it, and he was confirming it.

"Spirit and truth" does not mean "figuaritive."

 

[virgilio]

Think of it this way... .If Jesus were literal, Jesus was at the last supper holding himself in His hand and eating Himself.

Just something to think about.

Hello Brother washedagain greetings,
Jesus with his body and blood is literal and have a physical body like us.
But the flesh and blood on which he allegorically used bread and wine is figurative which he radically substituted for the meat of lamb where it was traditionally used during the Jews feast of Passover.

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

 

[virgilio]

And Paul called the bread, bread, the wine, wine...

Hi washedagain,
yes, bread is bread, the wine ,wine but Jesus saith, All the words I spake on you they were spirit, andthey were life.

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

 

[virgilio]

Very good post! Do you know of the symbolic meanings of the 4 cups of wine and the 4 matzos that are part of the Seder?

Hi washed again,
I'm sorry, I had not yet study that topic.

you can do some wiki search here is he link.

[FONT=&quot]Passover Seder - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passover_Seder[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]

Thanks and God bless.
your brother in Christ.
virgilio

 

[washedagain]

And that is exacty what St. Augustine said about it, and he was confirming it.

"Spirit and truth" does not mean "figuaritive."

Jesus is the door and the gate and living water.... that is spirit and truth and all 3 are figurative.

Go figure.