How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?

[tonychanyt]

Jesus fed five thousand men in John 6:1-14 by miraculously multiplying five barley loaves and two fish.

The next day:

35 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life;

The bread of spiritual life.

whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”
52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”

The Jews did not ask: How does the bread turn into his flesh?

They did not think that. They did not think in terms of transubstantiation.

How should we understand this?

Jesus explains;

63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”

We are to understand this in terms of spiritual life. Jesus multiplied the bread. We should believe this as a sign of his being the bread of life. Such a belief would cause us to grow spiritually. It feeds our spirit.

How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?

It doesn't. The bread is a sign for us to believe so that we can grow—not fleshly—but spiritually.

See also This is my body or represents my body?.

 

[AlexB23]

Jesus fed five thousand men in John 6:1-14 by miraculously multiplying five barley loaves and two fish.

The next day:


The bread of spiritual life.



The Jews did not ask: How does the bread turn into his flesh?

They did not think that. They did not think in terms of transubstantiation.

How should we understand this?

Jesus explains;


We are to understand this in terms of spiritual life. Jesus multiplied the bread. We should believe this as a sign of his being the bread of life. Such a belief would cause us to grow spiritually. It feeds our spirit.

How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?

It doesn't. The bread is a sign for us to believe so that we can grow—not fleshly—but spiritually.

See also This is my body or represents my body?.

There are rare instances where bread at Catholic churches turn into physical flesh and blood, known as a Eucharistic miracle. But for most times, the bread does not turn into physical flesh or blood from our perspective, but instead transforms into flesh and blood invisibly, known as transubstantiation. I did not believe in transubstantiation, until learning about Eucharistic miracles in late 2021 or early 2022. Eucharistic miracles have been studied by scientists, and in all of the confirmed miracles, the blood was type AB. In other Eucharistic miracles, the Catholic church has dismissed some, as red fungus sometimes grows on old bread. So, rigorous scientific testing is used to confirm these miracles. Yes, I love posting Psalm 111:2 everywhere, as it is the research scientist's Psalm.

Psalm 111:2 "Great are the works of the Lord, studied by all who delight in them."

This verse expresses admiration for God's great creation and works. Scientists engage with these works through their research and discovery. Faith and science complement each other, as both can acknowledge God's presence and power in the natural world. Scientific inquiry can be driven by a belief in a deeper meaning to the universe and a recognition of God's involvement. The verse affirms that studying God's works deepens our appreciation for and connection to the LORD.


This 9 minute video talks about type AB blood discovered on Eucharistic miracles (ages 15+ because of blood):

 

[HTacianas]

Jesus fed five thousand men in John 6:1-14 by miraculously multiplying five barley loaves and two fish.

The next day:


The bread of spiritual life.



The Jews did not ask: How does the bread turn into his flesh?

They did not think that. They did not think in terms of transubstantiation.

How should we understand this?

Jesus explains;


We are to understand this in terms of spiritual life. Jesus multiplied the bread. We should believe this as a sign of his being the bread of life. Such a belief would cause us to grow spiritually. It feeds our spirit.

How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?

It doesn't. The bread is a sign for us to believe so that we can grow—not fleshly—but spiritually.

See also This is my body or represents my body?.

Can you find someone in Church history who agrees with you?

 

[tonychanyt]

There are rare instances where bread at Catholic churches turn into physical flesh and blood, known as a Eucharistic miracle.

reference?

 

[tonychanyt]

Can you find someone in Church history who agrees with you?

Good question.

Most denominations disagree with transubstantiation.

 

[AlexB23]

reference?

https://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/english_pdf/Lanciano2.pdf

 

[tonychanyt]

https://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/english_pdf/Lanciano2.pdf

Thanks for the reference. Do you have any references published in scholarly journals?

 

[AlexB23]

Thanks for the reference. Do you have any references published in scholarly journals?

Yeah. This one is here, but it is in paper format only and in Italian (no abstract available): [Histological, immunological and biochemiccal studies on the flesh and blood of the eucharistic miracle of Lanciano (8th century)] - PubMed

 

[HTacianas]

Good question.

Most denominations disagree with transubstantiation.

It's not a matter of what some denomination might think. It is a matter of what was taught by the Apostles. That the bread and wine become the body and blood is what the Apostles taught. To contradict the teachings of the Apostles is heresy.

 

[HopeSings]

It doesn't

 

[awstar]

tonychanyt said
How does the bread turn into the body/flesh of Christ?


It doesn't. The bread is a sign for us to believe so that we can grow—not fleshly—but spiritually.

Which bread that spiritually nourishes us are we talking about? Only the bread Jesus broke and distributed? Only the bread a church priest/pastor/elder/whoever breaks and distributes? Can the bread I break and chew with my wine at happy hour be the flesh and blood of Jesus Christ that spiritually nourishes me if I believe it is?

 

[tonychanyt]

Yeah. This one is here, but it is in paper format only and in Italian (no abstract available): [Histological, immunological and biochemiccal studies on the flesh and blood of the eucharistic miracle of Lanciano (8th century)] - PubMed

Thanks for the link. What is its conclusion?

 

[tonychanyt]

It's not a matter of what some denomination might think.

Right. See Which denomination do I belong to? and follow up there.

It is a matter of what was taught by the Apostles. That the bread and wine become the body and blood is what the Apostles taught.

What precisely did they teach? Please focus on the bold.

 

[AlexB23]

Thanks for the link. What is its conclusion?

That the flesh was fused with the bread, and the blood type was AB.

 

[jas3]

Good question.

Most denominations disagree with transubstantiation.

This is dodging @HTacianas's question. Or are modern memorialist Protestants (a subset of a minority of Christians) the only people you can find in church history who agree with you?

 

[HTacianas]

Right. See Which denomination do I belong to? and follow up there.


What precisely did they teach? Please focus on the bold.

I've seen the "which denomination do I belong to" thing before. And it's a bit bogus. Christianity has never been composed of what any individual believes. One does not choose one's beliefs and go from there. Christianity is itself a system of beliefs and you either believe it or you don't.

The Apostles taught that the bread and wine of the Eucharist become the body and blood of Christ. That belief is now and always has been universal among all of the Apostolic Churches. For someone to come along later and say that it isn't true is simply wrong. You can hold whatever belief you want on the matter but when your belief is contrary to the teachings of Christianity your beliefs are no longer Christian. Apostle Paul said of the Eucharist:

1Co 10:16 The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? The bread which we break, is it not the communion of the body of Christ?

That cannot be simply spun away to mean anything other than what it says. They had a cup with wine in it that they blessed and it became the sharing of the blood of Christ. The bread they broke was the sharing of the body of Christ. No one up until a few hundred years ago ever disputed it, and their disputes have no basis in any of the teachings of Christianity. It's merely someone coming along later and by fiat making some other claim.

 

[tonychanyt]

are modern memorialist Protestants (a subset of a minority of Christians) the only people you can find in church history who agree with you?

No. See Which denomination do I belong to? and follow up there.

 

[tonychanyt]

And it's a bit bogus.

What precisely is a bit bogus? Please stay focused and precise. I prefer to interact with people who can.

 

[jas3]

No. See Which denomination do I belong to? and follow up there.

Nothing in that thread answers the original question or my question. I understand that you do not identify yourself as belonging to any particular denomination or even as non-denominational, but you were asked in two ways whether you could point to anyone else in church history who shares your position on the subject of this thread.

 

[HTacianas]

What precisely is a bit bogus? Please stay focused and precise. I prefer to interact with people who can.

Jesus did not send his Apostles out into the world to take a survey of their beliefs in order to assign them a slot someplace.