Can someone explain that how Deut.18:18 is not Muhammad?

Alexei

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Hi Lyle

Alexei wrote:
I will raise up for them a prophet LIKE YOU from among their brothers [Deuteronomy 18:18]
Then it's written:
Since then, NO PROPHET HAS RISEN IN ISRAEL LIKE MOSES.[Deuteronomy 34:10]
Lyle wrote:
There's a difference between has risen, and will rise...
Back to school:
Use the present perfect (has risen) when discussing events that have taken place in the past but are relevant to the present or past events that may be repeated or continued in the future.

Present perfect is used for actions that began in the past and continue up to and including the present moment!

Since then, NO PROPHET HAS RISEN IN ISRAEL LIKE MOSES. [Deuteronomy 34:10]

So how can this be applied to Levites or any prophet from the Children of Israel?? :confused:

Thx
Alexei :angel:
 
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Lyle

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Yes their is a change in character and you yourself pointed it out. Verse 15 says that the prophet will be like unto me (God). But in verse 18 the prophet is not characterized in this manner. In 15 it says that unto him the author is supposed to heaken to but in the 18th verse the ones who are going to hearken unto that prophet is "them", not the author, not the Israelites "and he shall speak unto them", the Levites.
Or might this not show that God is 100% man and 100% God?

So how can this be applied to Levites or any prophet from the Children of Israel??
Is this indeed talking about the Levites?


But here's a thought on it...

15- "The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet...."
18- "I will raise them up a Prophet from amoung their brethern...."

Raise up unto, and raise up from, are no different.... Meaning God will lift up a Prophet (who will be a Israelite/Jew) and give Him to minister to them... Of which Christ spoke of...
 
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peaceful soul

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Immanuel said:
How can Deut 18:18 be about Muhammad? The whole bible is about one Character and that's JESUS! Wanna know about Muhammad? Read the Koran, oh wait, they quote Jesus' name like how many times? :)

Word!

Actually, everything after man's initial sinning points to Christ. Unfortunatley a nonBiblical person would be overwhelmingly ignorant of that.
 
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thaiv

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Deuteronomy 18:15-18; 33:2. They will contend that Muhammad is referred to as the Prophet from among the brethren, after all he was from the line of Ishmael the first born son of Abraham, and then they will show a table of comparison between Muhammad and Moses while showing a table of contrast between Jesus and Moses. But you must be keen in your observation of these tables because with the criteria they post is also applicable to you--not only to Muhammad. Let's have our own table of comparison and contrast:

Moses (Exodus 1:17; Exodus 2:2-10) and Jesus (Matthew 2:16) was saved as a baby. Not Muhammad.
Moses (Exodus 16:15; 33:13-14; Numbers 9:8-9) and Jesus (Matthew 17:2-8) had intimate relationship with God. Muhammad did not communicate directly to God (there was an mediating angel named Gabriel)
God has given Moses and Jesus many miracles. Muhammad had none. (Surah 29:50)
Moses and Jesus made specific prophecies that were fulfilled. Aside from the usual pre-war speeches he had none.
Moses (Exodus 32:30-32) and Jesus (Isaiah 53:5; Matthew 26:28) "atoned" for the sins of the people. Muhammad did not.
Moses (Leviticus 4:2; 6:24-25; 14:13; Exodus 12:5; 13) and Jesus (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:19-20; John 6:53-58) taught Atonement by means of "bloody sacrifice." Muhammad taught exactly the opposite. (Surah 6:164; 53:38)
Moses (Exodus 2:1; 3:150 and Jesus (Matthew 1:2, 16; Luke 3:23, 34) both belong to the lineage of Jacob. Muhammad and his followers claim he belongs to the lineage of Ishmael.

Jesus is the Prophet like Moses?
 
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Alexei

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Hi thaiv

Well I can do the same:





1) Both Christians and Muslims agree that both Moses and Muhammad had fathers and mothers. They both also believe that Jesus had only a mother and no father. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

2) Both Moses and Muhammad married and begat children. Jesus never married nor had any offspring. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

3) Moses was accepted by the Jews and to this day, as a nation, they accept him as their prophet. Muhammad was accepted by his people, and as a nation, over one billion Muslims around the world accept him as the prophet of Allah. Jesus, however, was rejected by his people (the Jews) as stated in the Christian's own Bible: "He (Jesus) came unto his own, but his own received him not" (John 1:11) Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

4) Both Moses and Muhammad came with a new and comprehensive set of laws for their people. The law brought by prophet Moses was named the Judaic Law, and the law brought by prophet Muhammad was named the Shari'ah. Jesus however, as witnessed by Matthew, claimed to have not introduced any new laws, but to have come to renew the law of Moses and to have neither added nor subtracted from it. In Matthew 5:17-18 we read: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

5) Moses lead his people in a secret mass exodus from their hometown to Median in an attempt to flee the persecution of their enemies. Muhammad too emigrated with his followers from their home town to Madinah in secret in order to flee the torture of their enemies. Jesus, however, never led his followers in a any sort of mass exodus from their hometowns . Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

6) Moses was victorious over his enemies both morally as well as physically. Pharaoh was defeated by Moses and all of his army were drowned in the sea. Muhammad too met his enemies in battle and defeated them all. This too was a moral as well as a physical victory. Jesus on the other hand is claimed in the Bible to have been crucified by his enemies. Thus, his victory was only a moral one. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

7) Both Moses and Muhammad died natural deaths. Jesus, is claimed by the Christians to have died violently on the cross. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

8) Both Moses and Muhammad lie buried in the ground. Jesus, however, is claimed by the Christians to abide in heaven. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

9) Most Christians claim that Jesus is God. No Christian or Muslim, however, claims that Moses or Muhammad was God. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

10) Both Moses and Muhammad began their prophetic missions at the age of forty. The Bible tells us that Jesus began at thirty. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

11) Christians claim that Jesus was resurrected after his death. Neither Muslims nor Christians claim that Moses or Muhammad was resurrected. Therefore, Muhammad is like Moses, but Jesus is unlike Moses.

There are many additional points that could be mentioned...

This prophet can't be from the Children of Israel. The bible is clear:
Since then, NO PROPHET HAS RISEN IN ISRAEL LIKE MOSES.[Deuteronomy 34:10]

Thx
Alexei :angel:
 
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thaiv

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I will apply some of these points to me and comment on some.

1. I have a father and mother, therefore I am like Moses.
2. I expect to have a wife and children, therefore I am like Moses.
3. Muhammad was not accepted by the majority of his own people, the Quraysh tribe, until he killed them. Then he was accepted finally as a nation. By the way Hitler was accepted as a nation for awhile, therefore is he like Moses?
4. I would not consider the Shar'iah a completely new set of laws. Alot of it is derived from Moses' laws.
5. Many military commanders could match this, therefore are they like Moses?
6. Many military commanders could match this, therefore are they like Moses?
7. I will probably die a natural death, and my grandparents died a natural death...therefore are we like Moses?
8. My grandparents lie buried in the ground, therefore are they like Moses?
9. I never claimed, and no one has ever claimed that I am God, therefore am I like Moses?
10. False prophets have began there missions at forty, therefore are they like Moses?
11. My grandparents, were not resurrected from the dead, therefore are they like Moses?

There are many additional points that could be mentioned...

Most of the points, of this table of comparison that you just gave could be applicable to me and many other ordinary people. The points I gave are not applicable to ordinary people. Therefore, which prophet is more like Moses?

Since then, no prophet has risen in Israel like Moses. [Deuteronomy 34:10]. Its funny how you would quote this verse when you do not trust the OT. It says "has not" not will not.
 
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Alexei

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Hi Thaiv
I can use your same logic to refute your sayings:

Moses (Exodus 1:17; Exodus 2:2-10) and Jesus (Matthew 2:16) was saved as a baby. Not Muhammad.
Matthew 2:16:This is a pure invention on Matthew's part. Herod was guilty of many monstrous crimes, including the murder of several members of his own family. However, ancient historians such as Josephus, who delighted in listing Herod's crimes, do not mention what would have been Herod's greatest crime by far. It simply didn't happen. T
The context of Jeremiah 31:15 makes it clear that the weeping is for the Israelites about to be taken into exile in Babylon, and has nothing to do with slaughtered children hundreds of years later.
So Jesus is not like Moses.

Moses (Exodus 16:15; 33:13-14; Numbers 9:8-9) and Jesus (Matthew 17:2-8) had intimate relationship with God. Muhammad did not communicate
directly to God (there was an mediating angel named Gabriel)
Since you claim that Jesus is God, then all who have seen Jesus have seen and communicate with God. Look for Thomas for example in the NT. So it may apply to anyone who saw Jesus.

God has given Moses and Jesus many miracles. Muhammad had none. (Surah 29:50)
Ah nope my friend. I won't agree with you here.
Muhammad did many miracles but they are not mentioned in the Noble Qur'an (we can discuss this if you want).

Moses and Jesus made specific prophecies that were fulfilled. Aside from the usual pre-war speeches he had none.
Muhammad also made specific prophecies like [The Noble Qur'an 29]

Moses (Exodus 32:30-32) and Jesus (Isaiah 53:5; Matthew 26:28) "atoned" for the sins of the people. Muhammad did not.
Christians claim that Jesus died as an atonment while Moses didn't. So Jesus is not like Moses.

Moses (Leviticus 4:2; 6:24-25; 14:13; Exodus 12:5; 13) and Jesus (Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:19-20; John 6:53-58) taught Atonement by means of "bloody sacrifice." Muhammad taught exactly the opposite. (Surah 6:164; 53:38)
Again Christian claim that Jesus died as an atonment, while Moses didn't.


Moses (Exodus 2:1; 3:150 and Jesus (Matthew 1:2, 16; Luke 3:23, 34) both belong to the lineage of Jacob. Muhammad and his followers claim he belongs to the lineage of Ishmael.
So any Christian or Jews. So it could apply to my neighbor.

Christians claims that Jesus is “like unto thee” (like Moses), I wonder why they forget that Moses was not son of God, neither he was human and god at the same time like Jesus is claimed by Christians to be.

The bible is clear:
Since then, NO PROPHET HAS RISEN IN ISRAEL LIKE MOSES.[Deuteronomy 34:10]



Thx
Alexei :angel:
 
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alliedone

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thaiv said:
The Bible?...It is man made though...right? How can you trust it? Are you sure it referred to Muhammad?..hrm...Seems like double-talk to me. Is it ok to pick and choose what you like in the Bible and throw the rest away like its trash?


Indeed. Crafty muslim talk:
Moses Jesus Muhammed
Rejected by his people and then accepted Yes No Yes
Became a national leader Yes No Yes
Miraculous birth No Yes No
Encountered enemies in battle Yes No Yes
Family - married with children Yes No Yes

Chrisitan answers:
There are a number of ways in which Moses was like Jesus, but unlike Muhammad:

Moses had no known tomb, but died on Mount Nebo (Deut. 34:6).
Moses came out of Egypt at the Exodus, and Jesus went to Egypt as a baby and returned.
Moses was brought up by his mother as a nurse in Pharaoh's household, and Jesus was brought up by Mary, but Muhammad was an orphan. Moses was saved as a baby in the rushes; Jesus was saved when God told Joseph to take him to Egypt.
Moses was transfigured on Mt. Sinai (Exodus 34:29) and Jesus was transfigured in Matthew 17:1-6.
Moses offered to take the sins of Israel on himself in Exodus 32:30-32; Jesus was sacrificed for the sins of mankind.

Since muslims don't accept the entire life of Jesus we have this:
Jesus was rejected by his people and has not been accepted by them yet. But the time will come when they will look on him whom they have pierced (Zech. 12:10) and God will cleanse them (Ezek. 36:26-31). Similarly, Jesus will become a national leader and will encounter his enemies in battle (Zech. 14:3)

In Deuteronomy 18:18 God tells Moses to inform Israel that the prophet was to be from among their brethren, which means that he would have to be an Israelite. Moslems who dispute this assert that, as the Arabs are the brothers of the Jews, this refers to an Arab. However, there is no scriptural evidence to support this. The Arabs are never called the brethren of the Jews in the Bible. There are a few verses where Edom is described as the brother (singular) of Israel (e.g. Num. 20:14; Deut. 23:7; Amos 1:11), but the word brethren (plural) is never used. In any case, Muhammad is not a descendent of Edom (who joined the Jews in the second century BC), but of Ishmael, who is never referred to as the brother of Israel. The passage can only mean that the prophet like unto Moses was to be an Israelite.

To list the similarities and differences between Jesus, Muhammad and Moses is a rather inconclusive and MAN-MADE way of looking at Deuteronomy 18. Rather than humans making lists of ways that Muhammad is, or is not, like Moses, it is better to let the passage itself say in what way the prophet will be like Moses. This is given us in the next two verses:

"And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him." (Deut. 18:21-22)

The prophet would validate his message by some sign, either a miracle or a prediction of the future which he would predict or announce and which would then be fulfilled. There is no doubt that Jesus worked miracles; even the Qur'an admits this (e.g. Q 5:115). However, Muhammad never performed a miracle and the set of predictions claimed for him is singularly unimpressive (he is said to have predicted that his followers would win the battle of Badr - probably a method of encouraging them to fight more fiercely, and self fulfilling as one would never of heard of the prediction if the battle had been lost). The lack of signs from Muhammad is also commented upon in the Qur'an with words like: "They say: Why not a sign sent down to him from his Lord?" (Q 10:20; see also Q 6:109; Q 13:7; Q 17:59; Q 21:5,6). There is only one reason that the Qur'an would record passages like these, and that is because Muhammad never gave a prophecy or performed a miracle.


You guys can't have things both ways. Either the passage in Deuteronomy 18 is from God, in which case they must believe it and reject Muhammad because he does not fulfill scripture, or it is not from God, in which case they cannot claim it as a prediction of Muhammad.

Deuteronomy 18:18 is cited in Acts 3:22. Here the apostle Peter, speaking words from God through the Holy Spirit, identifies the prophet like Moses as being Jesus Christ and not Muhammad. ^_^
 
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thaiv

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Good points....

Muslims will claim that Muhammad performed miracles, even though its not in the Quran. Why would the Quran leave this out though? Making a list of similarities and differences can work either way depending on what you choose and it is the reader's decision on what list they think is more inclusive. The only things we should acknowledge is what is in the Scripture. I agree completely on what you said.
 
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Alexei

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Hi Thaiv

Muslims will claim that Muhammad performed miracles, even though its not in the Quran. Why would the Quran leave this out though? Making a list of similarities and differences can work either way depending on what you choose and it is the reader's decision on what list they think is more inclusive. The only things we should acknowledge is what is in the Scripture. I agree completely on what you said.
http://www.geocities.com/noorullahwebsite/miracles.html

And I do not need to prove to myself that Muhammad is the prophet mentioned in Det 18:18, I am only doing it for you to see the truth.

The Bible is clear:
Since then, NO PROPHET HAS RISEN IN ISRAEL LIKE MOSES.[Deuteronomy 34:10]

Thx
Alexei :angel:
 
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HumbleSiPilot77

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Well guess what, Deut. is corrupted, they changed it, so it is not about Muhammad...

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You just earned yourself another ban for "trolling" ... I can't believe how LOW you can be... No, don't bother PM'ing me, I will not talk to you, respond you or etc. I will expose and discuss this trolling behavior with Christianforums admin... No wonder you keep getting banned wherever you go! SHAME ON YOU, 32 yr. old baby! I have tried to link some sort of common ground, many times.... I have to take the words of the Bible on you:


Matt 10:12 And when you go into a household, greet it. 13 If the household is worthy, let your peace come upon it. But if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. 14 And whoever will not receive you nor hear your words, when you depart from that house or city, shake off the dust from your feet.

Mark 6:10 Also He said to them, "In whatever place you enter a house, stay there till you depart from that place. 11 And whoever will not receive you nor hear you, when you depart from there, shake off the dust under your feet as a testimony against them. Assuredly, I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city!"

Luke 9:4 Whatever house you enter, stay there, and from there depart. 5 And whoever will not receive you, when you go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet as a testimony against them."
 
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Lyle

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Alexei:

We also have no reason to believe it's Muhammed because...

A) Isalm goes against the Bible and the Old Testiment
B) Muhammed did not preach the word of God, only that of Allah.
C) There needs not be a new massage, for it was finished at the cross


Indeed, to hold this as Muhammed, is to hold God as a lie and that He changes....

read Hebrews 2:16
 
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roadie432002

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why do muslims care about what the Bible says?reason;muslims are trying to twist parts of the
bible to prove that their religion is a real religion,not the foamflecked rantings of an illerate so called prophet.read Deut 18:20.But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in My name,which i have not not commanded him to speak,or speaks of OTHER GODS,that prophet shall die.since allah and the God of the Jews and Christians are NOT THE SAME its clear that even if mohammad is the prophet in question he is a false prophet.However the future prophet in Deut 20:15-19 is none other than The Lord Jesus Christ.The muslim god has no son,only daughters.he married the moon goddess.the ONE and only TRUE GOD has a son.His name is Jesus Christ.wake up America and do not be fooled by the muslims.their goal is to rule the world.
 
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roadie432002 said:
wake up America and do not be fooled by the muslims.their goal is to rule the world.

It seems like you an I are on the same page brother, indeed people needs to wake up from this deception... Read Quran 5:51 and ask muslims what they are doing here...
 
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