Can someone briefly explain what's going on in Orthodoxy?

[Nick1000]

In the U.S. many churches have held their attendance numbers up by minimizing "all that Jesus stuff" and putting liberal gender and "equity" issues first.

I guess they are properly counted amongst those (per the survey) who have been attending "a church." Whether it should be counted as attending a Christian church is another matter.

‘God is trans’ church no longer hosting ‘Pride Mass’ at gay monument

The National Parks Service said the Stonewall National Monument would be closed today due to “the security of events in the area.”

www.catholicnewsagency.com

First drag queen certified as a candidate for United Methodist ministry 'speaking in a new way to new people'

(RNS) — Isaac Simmons is the first openly gay man to be certified within the Illinois Great Rivers Conference and, as far as anyone can tell, the first drag queen certified in the United Methodist Church.

religionnews.com

 

[Nick1000]

One cannot necessarily conclude that a decline in attendance numbers is a result of the attendees withdrawing from faith and spiritual interest. An increasing number of churches are leaving their members by focusing on all the goofy and perverse stuff in misguided attempts to have warm bodies show up in church for any reason to keep their numbers up. It is the "I didn't leave my church, my church left me" syndrome.

Catholic Church With ‘God Is Trans’ Exhibit to Host ‘Pride Mass’ at New York City Monument

The Church of St. Paul the Apostle announced that on June 22 it is celebrating a Mass outdoors at the Stonewall National Monument.

www.ncregister.com

First drag queen certified as a candidate for United Methodist ministry 'speaking in a new way to new people'

(RNS) — Isaac Simmons is the first openly gay man to be certified within the Illinois Great Rivers Conference and, as far as anyone can tell, the first drag queen certified in the United Methodist Church.

religionnews.com

 

[ArmyMatt]

In the U.S. many churches have held their attendance numbers up by minimizing "all that Jesus stuff" and putting liberal gender and "equity" issues first.

I guess they are properly counted amongst those (per the survey) who have been attending "a church." Whether it should be counted as attending a Christian church is another matter.

‘God is trans’ church no longer hosting ‘Pride Mass’ at gay monument

The National Parks Service said the Stonewall National Monument would be closed today due to “the security of events in the area.”

www.catholicnewsagency.com

First drag queen certified as a candidate for United Methodist ministry 'speaking in a new way to new people'

(RNS) — Isaac Simmons is the first openly gay man to be certified within the Illinois Great Rivers Conference and, as far as anyone can tell, the first drag queen certified in the United Methodist Church.

religionnews.com

One cannot necessarily conclude that a decline in attendance numbers is a result of the attendees withdrawing from faith and spiritual interest. An increasing number of churches are leaving their members by focusing on all the goofy and perverse stuff in misguided attempts to have warm bodies show up in church for any reason to keep their numbers up. It is the "I didn't leave my church, my church left me" syndrome.

Catholic Church With ‘God Is Trans’ Exhibit to Host ‘Pride Mass’ at New York City Monument

The Church of St. Paul the Apostle announced that on June 22 it is celebrating a Mass outdoors at the Stonewall National Monument.

www.ncregister.com

First drag queen certified as a candidate for United Methodist ministry 'speaking in a new way to new people'

(RNS) — Isaac Simmons is the first openly gay man to be certified within the Illinois Great Rivers Conference and, as far as anyone can tell, the first drag queen certified in the United Methodist Church.

religionnews.com

good points, it’s amazing that those attempts to make the church modern to keep folks actually drive them away.

 

[ValeriyK2022]

A sad trend... Television and other media resources have become instead of God.

To save Christianity, we must return to its roots - the decisions of the Seven Ecumenical Councils. They must be put at the forefront. The Western churches initially abandoned them, placing the decisions of the Pope above them. Later the erroneous postulate was accepted that everyone can correctly understand the Word of God for themselves. If this continues, they will begin to make amendments to the word of God. Because it still says there that homosexuals and other LGBT people will not inherit the kingdom of God, but will go to fiery hell. It is also said that pride is also a sin that leads to fiery hell.

The second problem is that a lot of people in Europe and Russia are going into the occult and neo-paganism. Supposedly they can give such strength and such opportunities that Christianity does not provide. Christianity is not empowering unless if Christians are only nominal and have no personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Or they believe selectively, fragmentarily: I believe in rituals, but I don’t believe in this. One priest from Russia said that occultists not only attend services, but even take communion. This is the second problem.

The third problem is that (as one senior officer of the Ukrainian Armed Forces stated) out of 100 mobilized Ukrainians, 10-20 people remain alive and unharmed. The rest are killed, maimed or otherwise incapacitated. Approximately the same problem is in the Russian army. Millions of Ukrainians have gone abroad and they will never return so that they or their growing children can be ground into minced meat. In Russia, the population was already insufficient to populate their territories, so they populated Mariupol with the Muslim population from Asia. The Ukrainians will be driven out, and Muslims will take their place. They do not have abortions and reproduce very quickly. When there are critically many of them in Europe, they can forcefully seize Christian's countries.

If Europe and the USA do not want to deal with the Muslim population in Russia and Ukraine, then let them (before it is too late) stop this extermination of the Christian population of these countries.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

indeed, I wonder if that ties at all to televangelism, where folks started having “church” via the TV

This is a preview of a JSTOR study. Church attendance was lower in the US in 19th century than the 20th. I'm going to guess that due to the rural nature of the US, getting to church was difficult.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1385475

 

[ArmyMatt]

This is a preview of a JSTOR study. Church attendance was lower in the US in 19th century than the 20th. I'm going to guess that due to the rural nature of the US, getting to church was difficult.

View attachment 336338

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1385475

interesting and a good point

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

This study appears to disprove that 19th century Russia was the golden age of Orthodoxy with the era of Tsar Alexander III (1881-1894). They may have had the rise of important Russian saints such as St. Seraphim, but the marriage of church and state was not the union the serf in the fields approved of.

After Alexander III came into power and made Konstantin Petrovich Pobedonostsev Ober-Procurator, Alexander III made it his goal for his nation to have one language, one nationality, and one religion. Alexander III and his goal of one religion, which Pobedonostsev spearheaded, was undoubtedly the most controversial of the three, and the way in which it was attempted to be achieved was appalling. Pobedonostsev saw to it that the “May Laws” be implemented, which barred Jews shtetls and rural areas. Shortly afterwards, Jews were deported from large cities and kicked out of public schools. It should also be noted that Pobedonostsev was quoted saying, while leading the Russian Orthodox Church, mind you, “A third of Jews will be converted, a third will emigrate, and the rest will die of hunger.” Put simply, if someone couldn’t be converted to believe in and become a part of the Russian Orthodox Church, Pobedonostsev wanted them either to die or be expelled from Russia.​

Russian Religious Thought in the 19th Century

The 19th Century was a defining moment in Russia which saw views on the Russian Orthodox Church, due partly, if not mainly, to its ties to the tsar-run government, sour tremendously among the Rus

us.ukessays.com

 

[ValeriyK2022]

This study appears to disprove that 19th century Russia was the golden age of Orthodoxy with the era of Tsar Alexander III (1881-1894). They may have had the rise of important Russian saints such as St. Seraphim, but the marriage of church and state was not the union the serf in the fields approved of.

After Alexander III came into power and made Konstantin Petrovich Pobedonostsev Ober-Procurator, Alexander III made it his goal for his nation to have one language, one nationality, and one religion. Alexander III and his goal of one religion, which Pobedonostsev spearheaded, was undoubtedly the most controversial of the three, and the way in which it was attempted to be achieved was appalling. Pobedonostsev saw to it that the “May Laws” be implemented, which barred Jews shtetls and rural areas. Shortly afterwards, Jews were deported from large cities and kicked out of public schools. It should also be noted that Pobedonostsev was quoted saying, while leading the Russian Orthodox Church, mind you, “A third of Jews will be converted, a third will emigrate, and the rest will die of hunger.” Put simply, if someone couldn’t be converted to believe in and become a part of the Russian Orthodox Church, Pobedonostsev wanted them either to die or be expelled from Russia.​

Russian Religious Thought in the 19th Century

The 19th Century was a defining moment in Russia which saw views on the Russian Orthodox Church, due partly, if not mainly, to its ties to the tsar-run government, sour tremendously among the Rus

us.ukessays.com

Forced churching is not sustainable. The same Daniil Sysoev provides the following data. In the 19th century in Russia there was a practice of forced communion once a year. The Sogdates who fought in the First World War were also obliged to confess and receive communion once a year. About 80% of the soldiers received communion in this way. But when the government allowed soldiers to receive communion at their discretion, the number of those receiving communion dropped sharply to 1.5%.

It also refutes the myth that war and the death everyone man leads to faith in God.

 

[gzt]

One cannot necessarily conclude that a decline in attendance numbers is a result of the attendees withdrawing from faith and spiritual interest. An increasing number of churches are leaving their members by focusing on all the goofy and perverse stuff in misguided attempts to have warm bodies show up in church for any reason to keep their numbers up. It is the "I didn't leave my church, my church left me" syndrome.

Catholic Church With ‘God Is Trans’ Exhibit to Host ‘Pride Mass’ at New York City Monument

The Church of St. Paul the Apostle announced that on June 22 it is celebrating a Mass outdoors at the Stonewall National Monument.

www.ncregister.com

First drag queen certified as a candidate for United Methodist ministry 'speaking in a new way to new people'

(RNS) — Isaac Simmons is the first openly gay man to be certified within the Illinois Great Rivers Conference and, as far as anyone can tell, the first drag queen certified in the United Methodist Church.

religionnews.com

One can also consider whether people abandon churches because of the conflation of their mission with the death cult of American conservatism -- temptations on both ends, and I've certainly seen victims of both.

 

[ValeriyK2022]

Father Daniel also said a very important thing. If a good goal is achieved through sinful and evil means, then it ceases to be good or was not so initially. This is an axiom for an Orthodox Christian.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

In the U.S. many churches have held their attendance numbers up by minimizing "all that Jesus stuff" and putting liberal gender and "equity" issues first.

I guess they are properly counted amongst those (per the survey) who have been attending "a church." Whether it should be counted as attending a Christian church is another matter.

‘God is trans’ church no longer hosting ‘Pride Mass’ at gay monument

The National Parks Service said the Stonewall National Monument would be closed today due to “the security of events in the area.”

www.catholicnewsagency.com

First drag queen certified as a candidate for United Methodist ministry 'speaking in a new way to new people'

(RNS) — Isaac Simmons is the first openly gay man to be certified within the Illinois Great Rivers Conference and, as far as anyone can tell, the first drag queen certified in the United Methodist Church.

religionnews.com

Last night my fiance was debating me that Protestants usually have church on Wednesdays as well as Sundays because she sees cars at the churches. An innocent debate that meant nothing at all. But anyways, I told her that no, that's typically a bible study on Wednesdays. She was eager to prove me wrong and looked up churches in our small, conservative town outside of Indianapolis. The first church she clicked on was an unassuming church that is literally just a few houses down from us. The church website was adorned with LGBT rainbow and trans flags. The description was all about how accepting they are. We had no idea such a church existed in our small, conservative town, let alone that we lived on the same block as one. They are EVERYWHERE. Our minds were blown.

I was proven right about Wednesdays being bible study nights upon further investigation by the way.

 

[ValeriyK2022]

Last night my fiance was debating me that Protestants usually have church on Wednesdays as well as Sundays because she sees cars at the churches. An innocent debate that meant nothing at all. But anyways, I told her that no, that's typically a bible study on Wednesdays. She was eager to prove me wrong and looked up churches in our small, conservative town outside of Indianapolis. The first church she clicked on was an unassuming church that is literally just a few houses down from us. The church website was adorned with LGBT rainbow and trans flags. The description was all about how accepting they are. We had no idea such a church existed in our small, conservative town, let alone that we lived on the same block as one. They are EVERYWHERE. Our minds were blown.

I was proven right about Wednesdays being bible study nights upon further investigation by the way.

This characterizes neo-Protestant parishes poorly, but it characterizes Americans well. Despite the fact that they are deceived, despite the fact that instead of true Christianity they are given a counterfeit, they go where they can be taught to communicate with Jesus Christ. It's interesting to them, it's important to them. In our church, people go to church as if they are in the service industry: Lord, give me a job, Lord, give me money, Lord, give me health, and so on. And when they receive what they ask for, they stop going and are no longer interested in the Gospel. And others go with their problems not even to church, but straight to the devil: to occultists, magicians and psychics. Our church is closer to the truth, but we, Ukrainians and Russians, do not appreciate this.

 

[ArseniusTheSilent]

Last night my fiance was debating me that Protestants usually have church on Wednesdays as well as Sundays because she sees cars at the churches. An innocent debate that meant nothing at all. But anyways, I told her that no, that's typically a bible study on Wednesdays. She was eager to prove me wrong and looked up churches in our small, conservative town outside of Indianapolis. The first church she clicked on was an unassuming church that is literally just a few houses down from us. The church website was adorned with LGBT rainbow and trans flags. The description was all about how accepting they are. We had no idea such a church existed in our small, conservative town, let alone that we lived on the same block as one. They are EVERYWHERE. Our minds were blown.

I was proven right about Wednesdays being bible study nights upon further investigation by the way.

You need to be careful to not use cars in a church's parking lot as indicative of church services or functions. Church's are often a location for community groups, AA, Al-Anon. other support groups and soup kitchens. Great uses for churches during the week.

 

[Nick1000]

You need to be careful to not use cars in a church's parking lot as indicative of church services or functions. Church's are often a location for community groups, AA, Al-Anon. other support groups and soup kitchens. Great uses for churches during the week.

True.

The way it works, is if there are Pride flags and most cars have several bumper stickers about climate change, John Kerry for President, and God is Gay" then it is a church meeting.

But if there is a pride flag and the cars have one or no bumper stickers, then most likely it is community meeting consisting of normal people.

 

[ValeriyK2022]

If we return to the topic and write briefly, then in Orthodoxy the same thing is happening as in all other churches (secularization) with one difference. If other churches, for example, neo-Protestant ones, change the teachings of their church to please the world, then the Orthodox Church retains its teachings on paper exactly, but it is difficult to find those who live by this teaching.

But the advantage is that there is the unchangeable word of God with the interpretation of the ancient saints. There is a standard. The Orthodox at least understand what and who to look for and what to strive for.

 

[Nick1000]

Am I right in thinking that this looks like schism-in-the-making, or how should we understand what is going on here?

I am not savvy enough to figure some of it out. There are references to ROCOR members and the effort being spearheaded by a ROCOR priest but he seems to be on the outs and no longer affiliated so the whole thing looks renegade from my limited view.

note: In case you don't see it there are three pages to this article. you have to click to get pages 2 and 3.

Riding a Wave of Converts, One Group Aims to Fuse Orthodoxy With Southern Values​

Riding a Wave of Converts, One Group Aims to Fuse Orthodoxy With Southern Values

Orthodox Christianity in the United States is a kaleidoscope of languages and cultures as diverse as Russia, Greece, Ethiopia, Syria, Bulgaria and, increasingly, the American South.

churchleaders.com

 

[gzt]

Am I right in thinking that this looks like schism-in-the-making, or how should we understand what is going on here?

I am not savvy enough to figure some of it out. There are references to ROCOR members and the effort being spearheaded by a ROCOR priest but he seems to be on the outs and no longer affiliated so the whole thing looks renegade from my limited view.

note: In case you don't see it there are three pages to this article. you have to click to get pages 2 and 3.

Riding a Wave of Converts, One Group Aims to Fuse Orthodoxy With Southern Values​

Riding a Wave of Converts, One Group Aims to Fuse Orthodoxy With Southern Values

Orthodox Christianity in the United States is a kaleidoscope of languages and cultures as diverse as Russia, Greece, Ethiopia, Syria, Bulgaria and, increasingly, the American South.

churchleaders.com

"Metropolitan Jonah Paffhausen, a retired bishop of ROCOR and rector of St. Herman of Alaska Orthodox Church in Stafford, Virginia, who was forced to resign from the Orthodox Church in America in part for comments seen as incendiary..."

Protecting a priest who raped somebody is not "comments seen as incendiary"...

 

[gzt]

But in short, no, not a schism in the making.

 

[ValeriyK2022]

Am I right in thinking that this looks like schism-in-the-making, or how should we understand what is going on here?

I am not savvy enough to figure some of it out. There are references to ROCOR members and the effort being spearheaded by a ROCOR priest but he seems to be on the outs and no longer affiliated so the whole thing looks renegade from my limited view.

note: In case you don't see it there are three pages to this article. you have to click to get pages 2 and 3.

Riding a Wave of Converts, One Group Aims to Fuse Orthodoxy With Southern Values​

Riding a Wave of Converts, One Group Aims to Fuse Orthodoxy With Southern Values

Orthodox Christianity in the United States is a kaleidoscope of languages and cultures as diverse as Russia, Greece, Ethiopia, Syria, Bulgaria and, increasingly, the American South.

churchleaders.com

In my opinion, the article is naive and short-sighted.

Let's start with culture. There is no longer that original culture in countries that were once Orthodox after the communists passed through them. We ourselves are trying to get an impression of that culture from books in order to take the best from there. We and our parents saw Soviet culture after World War II. We only learn from books what it was like before the communists. Therefore, if we are going to contrast, then we must contrast the culture of the USSR and the USA. Then let him answer the question, why did Saint John Maximovich of Shanghai and San Francisco migrate to the USA and not to the USSR?

Russia's attack on Ukraine can be compared to the US attack on Great Britain. Is this possible? No, this is madness, everyone will say. No one can provoke a war between the USA and Great Britain. And if it was possible between Russia and Ukraine, then the reason is primarily in Russia and Ukraine, and not in the provocateurs. Even if what is written in this article is true.

The agricultural countries of Africa live very poorly. Their people suffer from a lack of food and medicine, housing and many necessary things. And here faith in God in itself does not help them. Ethiopia is an Orthodox country. Faith alone will not relieve poverty and mortality. Doing without modern technology is the same as tempting the Lord (throwing yourself down from the roof of the temple, because it is said that the aneles will catch you and you will not hit the ground).

God hates same-sex marriage. But now people have gathered who are against this. And what should they do next? Just protest all your life? Is it possible to build something by being opponents of something bad, but not giving anything good in return? When there were apostles, in the Roman Empire, from Emperor Nero to the bottom, many were struck by similar vices. But did the apostles engage in protests? They brought people to Christ, gave them the grace of the Holy Spirit, taught them faith and life by faith and punished members of their church for their sins, and said about outsiders: let God judge the outsiders. We are in a similar position now. If we only protest against sin, but cannot teach either by example or by word how to live in Christ Jesus, then we will not save anyone. A Christian is not saved by fighting sinners, but by living in Christ Jesus.