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- I believe that gay love is just as equal and natural as straight love
- I believe abortion is practical and should be legal everywhere
- I don't believe that anything 'happens for a reason'
- I am pro-euthanasia
- I am 100% in endorsement of contraceptives
- I don't believe we should all procreate. It's a personal choice and at the current state of the world we certainly don't need any more population increases
- I believe in reincarnation
- I believe in crystal, plant and earth energies
- I believe in evolution
- I don't think the Bible is accurate or that stories like Adam and Eve actually took place
- I don't believe in Hell or satan
- I don't think God has 'anyone's back' or that praying is going to keep you safe or happy

I was raised and schooled Roman Catholic but quickly abandoned it after learning of all the past corruption as well as all the segregation, exclusion and discrimination behind it.
I still believe there's a God but not that he has any power over what we do or what happens to us on this Earth.
thoughts?
 
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South Bound

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- I believe that gay love is just as equal and natural as straight love
- I believe abortion is practical and should be legal everywhere
- I don't believe that anything 'happens for a reason'
- I am pro-euthanasia
- I am 100% in endorsement of contraceptives
- I don't believe we should all procreate. It's a personal choice and at the current state of the world we certainly don't need any more population increases
- I believe in reincarnation
- I believe in crystal, plant and earth energies
- I believe in evolution
- I don't think the Bible is accurate or that stories like Adam and Eve actually took place
- I don't believe in Hell or satan
- I don't think God has 'anyone's back' or that praying is going to keep you safe or happy

I was raised and schooled Roman Catholic but quickly abandoned it after learning of all the past corruption as well as all the segregation, exclusion and discrimination behind it.
I still believe there's a God but not that he has any power over what we do or what happens to us on this Earth.
thoughts?

You already have a relationship with God. It's just an adversarial relationship. Good luck with that.
 
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ViaCrucis

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- I believe in reincarnation
- I believe in crystal, plant and earth energies

Some Christians will take issue with at least some of the things you listed, though not everything. I think these two things here that I've isolated are the most problematic, because they are theologically problematic.

Christian teaching asserts belief in the innate and intrinsic goodness of the human body as the creation of God, though we are (with all of creation) beaten and battered by sin and death, God's good purposes for creation are found in and through Christ. Therefore the Christian hope is believe in the resurrection of the body. Reincarnation is deeply problematic for a number of reasons.

What is reincarnated? The soul? In that case it posits a spirit-matter dualism that is at odds with orthodox Christian teaching; we are not "embodied souls" but more accurately, ensouled bodies. The "soul" is not the true inner self housed in a body, we are human creatures of flesh, bone, tissue, etc our bodies are intrinsically part of what makes us us. And so in believing in the resurrection of the dead we believe that the body, though it dies and decays will be raised up and transformed: it is sown a "soulish body" it is raised a "spiritual body" as St. Paul says.

In the Buddhist idea of reincarnation and samsara there is no permanent self at all, which is (at least in part) what the goal of Buddhism is, to end suffering by following the middle way, to recognize that the self is not really anything, and so to break the cycle of samsara and achieve nirvanna and buddha-hood. Of course if there is no actual self, if the self is merely illusion, then that's a problem as well from a Christian perspective. On the contrary, human personhood is not transient or illusionary, it is actual, concrete, and permanent--that permanence is bound up in the resurrection. The actual person, body and soul, has a permanence, and that permanence is found in the good creation of God being renewed in and through Christ, in the hope of the future world.

In order to assert some sort of reincarnation would, fundamentally, to deny either the intrinsic goodness and purpose of the body (and the material world more broadly); or else to deny that human personhood is, in fact, something real. Both depend on some idea of the sensible and material world as being fundamentally irrelevant or an illusion, ideas which are explicitly heretical in Christian thinking. On the contrary, Christianity asserts faith in "one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen" and points back to the explicit statement that all which God made is "exceedingly good" or "exceedingly beautiful", it has purpose, meaning, it's relevant and its existence is a good thing.

The idea that there are innate energies in crystals and the like, well that's mostly going to be an issue simply from the basis that most Christians will see that as basically just new age pseudo-spirituality. Such new agey stuff tends to be based on pseudo-science, western occultism (which often relied on 19th century pseudo-science), and the like.

As for the other things you said: You believe the love shared between same-sex partners is the same as love shared between opposite-sex partners, many Christians are fine with that even if many aren't (of course that particular topic of discussion isn't permitted on CF, so let's leave it at that for now). You think that abortion is sometimes necessary? Not all Christians have the same view of abortion, while arguably most Christians will see abortion as tragic, many believe that the pro-choice ethic is not in conflict with a broader pro-life ethic--it's a complex ethical topic that should have its own discussion elsewhere. Many Christians would not have a problem with euthanasia in certain situations as a way to mercifully alleviate suffering--that doesn't make euthanasia good but a tragic necessity at times. Most Christians, arguably, don't have a problem with evolution, some of the foremost scientists in the world are practicing Christians, for example Dr. Francis Collins the former head of the Human Genome Project who under his leadership mapped out the human genome is an Evangelical Christian who has written a lot about the relationship of science and faith, who accepts evolution and helped found the Biologos Foundation to help facilitate discussion and learning about the cross-section of faith and science.

A few others, for example not believing in Hell or Satan--while that would certainly place you in an unorthodox corner, it wouldn't be as problematic as the issue of reincarnation. Also, depends on what you mean by "Hell", you'll find that there is no single definition or understanding of Hell among Christians, because it's not one of the things which was ever really seriously discussed in the ancient and historic debates of the Church; and which there has long been different views and thoughts on the topic. So if by "Hell" you mean some underground cavern with flickering flames and devils poking people with pitchforks, I think you'll find that the majority of Christians don't believe in that anyway. Most, arguably, wouldn't even say Hell is a place at all.

Ultimately, I'd want to know what you mean by "relationship with God". That sort of language is most typically used in Evangelical circles when talking about a "personal relationship" with the Deity or with Christ; but that isn't necessarily how most Christians might talk about relating to God (or perhaps more importantly, God relating to us). Fundamentally the most important thing is Jesus, that Jesus reveals God to us and that God has made Himself known to us in and through Christ, who is the Word made flesh, God incarnate, the eternal Son of the Father and who makes the Father known. That is, we do not know God except through Jesus. Such would be, really, the only meaningful sense of "relationship with God" in a mainstream Christian parlance; such a relationship is not about being "personal" or some direct experience of God, but about the Gospel, God come down to us.

And without the Gospel, without Jesus Christ living and incarnate, everything else doesn't matter anyway. Evolution or not, it doesn't matter. There is no "relationship" with God apart from and without Christ; as we can only know God through Him.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Hoghead1

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Some Christians will take issue with at least some of the things you listed, though not everything. I think these two things here that I've isolated are the most problematic, because they are theologically problematic.

Christian teaching asserts belief in the innate and intrinsic goodness of the human body as the creation of God, though we are (with all of creation) beaten and battered by sin and death, God's good purposes for creation are found in and through Christ. Therefore the Christian hope is believe in the resurrection of the body. Reincarnation is deeply problematic for a number of reasons.

What is reincarnated? The soul? In that case it posits a spirit-matter dualism that is at odds with orthodox Christian teaching; we are not "embodied souls" but more accurately, ensouled bodies. The "soul" is not the true inner self housed in a body, we are human creatures of flesh, bone, tissue, etc our bodies are intrinsically part of what makes us us. And so in believing in the resurrection of the dead we believe that the body, though it dies and decays will be raised up and transformed: it is sown a "soulish body" it is raised a "spiritual body" as St. Paul says.

In the Buddhist idea of reincarnation and samsara there is no permanent self at all, which is (at least in part) what the goal of Buddhism is, to end suffering by following the middle way, to recognize that the self is not really anything, and so to break the cycle of samsara and achieve nirvanna and buddha-hood. Of course if there is no actual self, if the self is merely illusion, then that's a problem as well from a Christian perspective. On the contrary, human personhood is not transient or illusionary, it is actual, concrete, and permanent--that permanence is bound up in the resurrection. The actual person, body and soul, has a permanence, and that permanence is found in the good creation of God being renewed in and through Christ, in the hope of the future world.

In order to assert some sort of reincarnation would, fundamentally, to deny either the intrinsic goodness and purpose of the body (and the material world more broadly); or else to deny that human personhood is, in fact, something real. Both depend on some idea of the sensible and material world as being fundamentally irrelevant or an illusion, ideas which are explicitly heretical in Christian thinking. On the contrary, Christianity asserts faith in "one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things seen and unseen" and points back to the explicit statement that all which God made is "exceedingly good" or "exceedingly beautiful", it has purpose, meaning, it's relevant and its existence is a good thing.

The idea that there are innate energies in crystals and the like, well that's mostly going to be an issue simply from the basis that most Christians will see that as basically just new age pseudo-spirituality. Such new agey stuff tends to be based on pseudo-science, western occultism (which often relied on 19th century pseudo-science), and the like.

As for the other things you said: You believe the love shared between same-sex partners is the same as love shared between opposite-sex partners, many Christians are fine with that even if many aren't (of course that particular topic of discussion isn't permitted on CF, so let's leave it at that for now). You think that abortion is sometimes necessary? Not all Christians have the same view of abortion, while arguably most Christians will see abortion as tragic, many believe that the pro-choice ethic is not in conflict with a broader pro-life ethic--it's a complex ethical topic that should have its own discussion elsewhere. Many Christians would not have a problem with euthanasia in certain situations as a way to mercifully alleviate suffering--that doesn't make euthanasia good but a tragic necessity at times. Most Christians, arguably, don't have a problem with evolution, some of the foremost scientists in the world are practicing Christians, for example Dr. Francis Collins the former head of the Human Genome Project who under his leadership mapped out the human genome is an Evangelical Christian who has written a lot about the relationship of science and faith, who accepts evolution and helped found the Biologos Foundation to help facilitate discussion and learning about the cross-section of faith and science.

A few others, for example not believing in Hell or Satan--while that would certainly place you in an unorthodox corner, it wouldn't be as problematic as the issue of reincarnation. Also, depends on what you mean by "Hell", you'll find that there is no single definition or understanding of Hell among Christians, because it's not one of the things which was ever really seriously discussed in the ancient and historic debates of the Church; and which there has long been different views and thoughts on the topic. So if by "Hell" you mean some underground cavern with flickering flames and devils poking people with pitchforks, I think you'll find that the majority of Christians don't believe in that anyway. Most, arguably, wouldn't even say Hell is a place at all.

Ultimately, I'd want to know what you mean by "relationship with God". That sort of language is most typically used in Evangelical circles when talking about a "personal relationship" with the Deity or with Christ; but that isn't necessarily how most Christians might talk about relating to God (or perhaps more importantly, God relating to us). Fundamentally the most important thing is Jesus, that Jesus reveals God to us and that God has made Himself known to us in and through Christ, who is the Word made flesh, God incarnate, the eternal Son of the Father and who makes the Father known. That is, we do not know God except through Jesus. Such would be, really, the only meaningful sense of "relationship with God" in a mainstream Christian parlance; such a relationship is not about being "personal" or some direct experience of God, but about the Gospel, God come down to us.

And without the Gospel, without Jesus Christ living and incarnate, everything else doesn't matter anyway. Evolution or not, it doesn't matter. There is no "relationship" with God apart from and without Christ; as we can only know God through Him.

-CryptoLutheran
I disagree with you on the nature of the "self." I believe that all of reality is in a continual state of flux or evolution. No thinker thinks twice. Moment to moment, we are different people. The "Self" is best thought of as the name for a society of perishing occasions.
 
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ViaCrucis

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I disagree with you on the nature of the "self." I believe that all of reality is in a continual state of flux or evolution. No thinker thinks twice. Moment to moment, we are different people. The "Self" is best thought of as the name for a society of perishing occasions.

Our experience of the self may be in flux, but if there is no actual "me" at all, then Christian discussion on salvation, resurrection, etc is meaningless drivel. What is saved? What is raised? What exists forever in the world to come?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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FireDragon76

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I'm sure some lay people in mainline churches believe in reincarnation and crystals. But neither one measure up well in light of traditional theologies, and even liberal mainline churches generally defrock pastors that would openly teach those doctrines (Episcopalians, for instance, have done this when priests have decided to be both Druids and Christians).

The other stuff is a matter of where your conscience leads you. There are Christians that are pro-choice, believe in the right to die, and so forth... even if they wouldn't fit in well with the average Southen Baptist. The doctrine of Hell is not as important in most mainline churches, either.
 
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Brianlear

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- I believe that gay love is just as equal and natural as straight love
- I believe abortion is practical and should be legal everywhere
- I don't believe that anything 'happens for a reason'
- I am pro-euthanasia
- I am 100% in endorsement of contraceptives
- I don't believe we should all procreate. It's a personal choice and at the current state of the world we certainly don't need any more population increases
- I believe in reincarnation
- I believe in crystal, plant and earth energies
- I believe in evolution
- I don't think the Bible is accurate or that stories like Adam and Eve actually took place
- I don't believe in Hell or satan
- I don't think God has 'anyone's back' or that praying is going to keep you safe or happy
- gay love and straight love are both manifestations of the same love which flows from God with no labels.
- abortion is a contentious topic and you will find many Christians with varying views on it. Simple answer, just because we can doesn't mean we should, but doesn't mean we can't either. God loves obstetricians who do abortions too.
- things happen for a variety of reasons, you live long enough you'll encounter a chance series of events that seems to culminate in a good outcome. It's up to you how to interpret that. Surely, God does not orchestrate long chains of events in people's lives for specific outcomes routinely. But you can't rule it out just because it hasn't happened to you.
- euthanasia, another contentious topic, that you will find varying beliefs about.
- contraceptives, another topic you will find varying beliefs about
- clearly, not all people are called to procreate. Lot's of christians would agree with that.
- reincarnation back to this earth in a different body is cool, but I think the biblical story of eternal life with a new body outside the bounds of this physical realm is a lot cooler.
- crystal, plant, and earth energies. Not sure why you think that's incompatible with God when he may have created all 3 of those out of the same energy.
- evolution, God made evolution
- Welcome to the club, many christians don't literally interpret every bible verse.
- hell or satan, lots of widely varying opinions on these topics. Most would agree there is the possibility of evil in the universe
- God loves us, but it is very clear that belief in God does not guarantee you a safe existence, life is fragile.
 
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AGTG

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All that being said, don't let your experience with the corrupt catholic church sully your view of God. His ways are best, and He desires a personal relationship with you, but that relationship must be walked out His way, not ours.

Belief (trusting Jesus' work of the cross to gain us access to Father God when we pray in Jesus' name)
Repentance (having a teachable, humble heart before God that is ready to cast aside our ideas to embrace His truth which is clearly stated in His word, most often empowered by calling upon the power of the Holy Spirit to help us)
Forgiveness of Sin (freedom from the penalty of sin when we believe, and freedom of the power of sin in our lives when we repent and call on His Holy Spirit power to overcome things we're struggling with)

These are the fundamentals of the faith. Anyone be a Christian, if they simply do it God's way.
 
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Radagast

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- I believe that gay love is just as equal and natural as straight love
- I believe abortion is practical and should be legal everywhere
- I don't believe that anything 'happens for a reason'
- I am pro-euthanasia
- I am 100% in endorsement of contraceptives
- I don't believe we should all procreate. It's a personal choice and at the current state of the world we certainly don't need any more population increases
- I believe in reincarnation
- I believe in crystal, plant and earth energies
- I believe in evolution
- I don't think the Bible is accurate or that stories like Adam and Eve actually took place
- I don't believe in Hell or satan
- I don't think God has 'anyone's back' or that praying is going to keep you safe or happy

Some of those (like reincarnation) are incompatible with Christian belief. "Crystal energies" are incompatible with modern science.

I still believe there's a God but not that he has any power over what we do or what happens to us on this Earth.

A being with no power would not be God.
 
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dhh712

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- I don't think the Bible is accurate or that stories like Adam and Eve actually took place
Well, you can certainly have a relationship with something you made up in your mind, but it won't be the God of the Bible. Lots of people have these relationships though, so I wouldn't know why you would not be able to as well.
 
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aiki

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- I believe that gay love is just as equal and natural as straight love
- I believe abortion is practical and should be legal everywhere
- I don't believe that anything 'happens for a reason'
- I am pro-euthanasia
- I am 100% in endorsement of contraceptives
- I don't believe we should all procreate. It's a personal choice and at the current state of the world we certainly don't need any more population increases
- I believe in reincarnation
- I believe in crystal, plant and earth energies
- I believe in evolution
- I don't think the Bible is accurate or that stories like Adam and Eve actually took place
- I don't believe in Hell or satan
- I don't think God has 'anyone's back' or that praying is going to keep you safe or happy

I was raised and schooled Roman Catholic but quickly abandoned it after learning of all the past corruption as well as all the segregation, exclusion and discrimination behind it.
I still believe there's a God but not that he has any power over what we do or what happens to us on this Earth.
thoughts?

What does the Bible say? Can you hold all of these views and be in a right relationship with God? Not according to what I read in Scripture. As some have already pointed out, you can have an adversarial relationship with God and hold all these views, but I doubt this is the sort of relationship you meant.

Selah.
 
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Mudinyeri

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As was pointed out earlier, we all have a relationship - of some sort - with God. If you turn your life over to God and truly seek His direction, He will convict you of sin. I'm not saying all of those things are sinful, but if you truly seek you will find those that are.
 
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hedrick

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Some Christians will take issue with at least some of the things you listed, though not everything. I think these two things here that I've isolated are the most problematic, because they are theologically problematic.
Via Crucis is Lutheran. I'm Presbyterian. We're both from the liberal end. I agree with him that reincarnation and crystals are dubious, as well as with the rest of his comments. Reincarnation because it contradicts a consistent Scriptural theme, and crystals because I would consider that superstitious.

However our church (and probably his) ask new members only if they accept Christ as Lord and Savior. We have additional standards for leaders.

In addition to the two issues Via Crucis mentioned, your last item and your statement that God doesn’t have any power over what we do sound rather like deism. While we probably wouldn’t deny you membership, I wonder what calling Christ Lord and Savior would mean in such a context.

Have you considered the Unitarian / Universalist Church? They’re the current representative of the tradition coming from the deists.

If you want to talk about the whole list, you probably need to do so in the Liberal forum. Some of those topics would be unacceptable elsewhere.
 
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ScottA

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- I believe that gay love is just as equal and natural as straight love
- I believe abortion is practical and should be legal everywhere
- I don't believe that anything 'happens for a reason'
- I am pro-euthanasia
- I am 100% in endorsement of contraceptives
- I don't believe we should all procreate. It's a personal choice and at the current state of the world we certainly don't need any more population increases
- I believe in reincarnation
- I believe in crystal, plant and earth energies
- I believe in evolution
- I don't think the Bible is accurate or that stories like Adam and Eve actually took place
- I don't believe in Hell or satan
- I don't think God has 'anyone's back' or that praying is going to keep you safe or happy

I was raised and schooled Roman Catholic but quickly abandoned it after learning of all the past corruption as well as all the segregation, exclusion and discrimination behind it.
I still believe there's a God but not that he has any power over what we do or what happens to us on this Earth.
thoughts?
Could a person have a relationship with you, if they didn't like anything about you and were against everything you stood for? What would that look like?
 
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Open Heart

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- I believe that gay love is just as equal and natural as straight love
- I believe abortion is practical and should be legal everywhere
- I don't believe that anything 'happens for a reason'
- I am pro-euthanasia
- I am 100% in endorsement of contraceptives
- I don't believe we should all procreate. It's a personal choice and at the current state of the world we certainly don't need any more population increases
- I believe in reincarnation
- I believe in crystal, plant and earth energies
- I believe in evolution
- I don't think the Bible is accurate or that stories like Adam and Eve actually took place
- I don't believe in Hell or satan
- I don't think God has 'anyone's back' or that praying is going to keep you safe or happy

I was raised and schooled Roman Catholic but quickly abandoned it after learning of all the past corruption as well as all the segregation, exclusion and discrimination behind it.
I still believe there's a God but not that he has any power over what we do or what happens to us on this Earth.
thoughts?
It sounds to me from the way you are describing yourself that you are not an agnostic, beginning with the fact that you say, "I still believe there's a God." However, you don't believe he is involved with us or what happens on Earth. That is a description of Deism. One does not have a relationship with the Deist God, by definition. For you to have a relationship with God, you would need to change your theology.

Most of the other stuff is just confusion. I say most, because some of it, like evolution, is simply factual stuff that only fundamentalists eschew.
 
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Gabriel Anton

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Praise be to Jesus Christ for His Mercy.

Sure, Jesus Christ is the Most Merciful and Most Compassionate God of the Universe.

Just withdraw from the darkness and step into the Light.

Let the Holy Spirit lead you to Salvation.

The Holy Scriptures can be a useful compass.

How well you gel with Jesus is up to you.

Blessed be the Holy Spirit, Light in the darkness. Amen.
 
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