Calvinists, why are you Calvinist?

[Hammster]

Mine were several times, why should I not express my true opinions as well?

I thought "turn the other cheek" might come into play.

 

[Leevo]

I Just realized this!

The Arminian conception of gospel preaching is weak, because it depends on the preacher's personal ability and strength. - Therefore: People must hear to believe, so that must be contingent upon the preachers personality, ability, strength, voice tone, eloquence etc. - That obviously can not be the case!

The Calvinist, on the other hand, knows that God's Word will never fail to accomplish all that God desires it to accomplish.

"So will My Word be which goes forth from My mouth; it will not return to Me empty, without accomplishing what I desire, and without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it." Is. 55:11

I would disagree here, the Arminian concept of the gospel does not require a skilled preacher as you claim. Rather just the gospel. Plain and simple. Faith comes by hearing, right? In Arminian theology, when the gospel is preached God grants the listeners what we call "prevenient grace" grace that allows us to make the decision either for Christ or against him. Until the gospel is preached man is under total depravity and can do nothing to change it. It is purely by God's grace at the preaching of the gospel that we can even make the choice. We reject a concept of God that forces himself upon his creation to show his so-called "glory" and rather we teach that God gains glory for every repentant sinner that turns to Him. How could the Bible say there is rejoicing in heaven at every repentant sinner, if it was forced upon the person and it was always determined that that person would be saved no matter what?

 

[Leevo]

I thought "turn the other cheek" might come into play.

Indeed, I guess emotions probably got the better of me. I get tired of being attacked by Calvinists everywhere I go and hoped that the ones here would be kinder, most have been, a few aren't...

 

[Hammster]

I would disagree here, the Arminian concept of the gospel does not require a skilled preacher as you claim. Rather just the gospel. Plain and simple. Faith comes by hearing, right? In Arminian theology, when the gospel is preached God grants the listeners what we call "prevenient grace" grace that allows us to make the decision either for Christ or against him. Until the gospel is preached man is under total depravity and can do nothing to change it. It is purely by God's grace at the preaching of the gospel that we can even make the choice. We reject a concept of God that forces himself upon his creation to show his so-called "glory" and rather we teach that God gains glory for every repentant sinner that turns to Him. How could the Bible say there is rejoicing in heaven at every repentant sinner, if it was forced upon the person and it was always determined that that person would be saved no matter what?

How does one determine whether the gospel is true or not, if prevenient grace is true?

 

[Leevo]

"All" has two meanings. It's either every single item, or every kind. So context will determine which "all" is used. You cannot assume the meaning to fit your theology.

Okay, well what about when the term "world" is used in John 3:16. "For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOEVER BELIEVES in Him, shall not perish but have eternal life" I would think Calvinists must change the simple meaning here to fit their theology. Both sides are guilty of doing this at some time or another...

 

[Hammster]

Indeed, I guess emotions probably got the better of me. I get tired of being attacked by Calvinists everywhere I go and hoped that the ones here would be kinder, most have been, a few aren't...

The attacks come from both sides, in my experience. Just roll with it.

 

[Leevo]

How does one determine whether the gospel is true or not, if prevenient grace is true?

I am not an Arminian scholar, best explained by those who are: http://evangelicalarminians.org/the...nian-theologythe-biblical-doctrines-of-grace/

 

[Hammster]

Okay, well what about when the term "world" is used in John 3:16. "For God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten Son that WHOEVER BELIEVES in Him, shall not perish but have eternal life" I would think Calvinists must change the simple meaning here to fit their theology. Both sides are guilty of doing this at some time or another...

Here's another. "World" has at least 8 different uses in John's writings alone (possibly 12).

But even in that, in your theology you'll have to agree that God loves everyone, but not enough to save everyone. Or, in another way, God loves everyone, but not enough to not punish those who don't love Him back. That's not unconditional love for all.

 

[Hammster]

I am not an Arminian scholar, best explained by those who are: http://evangelicalarminians.org/the...nian-theologythe-biblical-doctrines-of-grace/

I'm not pretending you're a scholar. I'm not, myself. But if you are going to argue for or against something, especially on an Internet forum, you should be able to explain and defend at least at the basic level.

So in your own words, what how did that author address my question?

 

[Leevo]

Here's another. "World" has at least 8 different uses in John's writings alone (possibly 12).

But even in that, in your theology you'll have to agree that God loves everyone, but not enough to save everyone. Or, in another way, God loves everyone, but not enough to not punish those who don't love Him back. That's not unconditional love for all.

God is a just God and punishes those who refuse his saving work on the Cross. I would argue that the Calvinist view is the one with the God who doesn't love everyone unconditionally, seeing as he creates them to see them destroyed and makes them unable to do anything else in order to show his "glory."

 

[Leevo]

I'm not pretending you're a scholar. I'm not, myself. But if you are going to argue for or against something, especially on an Internet forum, you should be able to explain and defend at least at the basic level.

So in your own words, what how did that author address my question?

I linked you to that specific article because it outlines the Arminian theology as a whole. That website has more information on it than I could possibly hope to offer here. I didn't come here to have to defend my claims, I came here asking why other people hold to theirs out of mere curiosity.

 

[Hammster]

God is a just God and punishes those who refuse his saving work on the Cross. I would argue that the Calvinist view is the one with the God who doesn't love everyone unconditionally, seeing as he creates them to see them destroyed and makes them unable to do anything else in order to show his "glory."

Calvinists don't claim that God loves everyone unconditionally. And we argue that He punishes the unbelievers. But if your view says on one hand that He loves everyone without condition, but then places conditions on them.

 

[Hammster]

I linked you to that specific article because it outlines the Arminian theology as a whole. That website has more information on it than I could possibly hope to offer here. I didn't come here to have to defend my claims, I came here asking why other people hold to theirs out of mere curiosity.

Fair enough. But when you start arguing, that's going to happen.

Just some advice. Articles are fine. But you should be familiar enough with what you believe that you can answer questions about it.

 

[Leevo]

Calvinists don't claim that God loves everyone unconditionally. And we argue that He punishes the unbelievers. But if your view says on one hand that He loves everyone without condition, but then places conditions on them.

The Bible is what makes the claim that God loves everyone, "God is love." We just state what scripture states, believe to be saved. It's quite simple.

 

[Leevo]

Fair enough. But when you start arguing, that's going to happen.

Just some advice. Articles are fine. But you should be familiar enough with what you believe that you can answer questions about it.

I am quite new to Arminianism actually. Only really recently did I truly settle into the Arminian camp, but even still I lean into the Molinist side sometimes. Forgive me for not being able to write an article on it.

 

[Hammster]

The Bible is what makes the claim that God loves everyone, "God is love." We just state what scripture states, believe to be saved. It's quite simple.

You don't, actually. Yes, God is love. But if you want that to mean He loves every single person the same, then there's no room for hell in your theology.

 

[Hammster]

I am quite new to Arminianism actually. Only really recently did I truly settle into the Arminian camp, but even still I lean into the Molinist side sometimes. Forgive me for not being able to write an article on it.

I'll think about it.

 

[Leevo]

You don't, actually. Yes, God is love. But if you want that to mean He loves every single person the same, then there's no room for hell in your theology.

Just because God loves a person, does not mean he must sacrifice his just nature as well.

 

[Hammster]

Just because God loves a person, does not mean he must sacrifice his just nature as well.

Didn't Christ bear the sins of all people for all time on the cross, in your view? If so, then justice was served.

 

[Leevo]

Didn't Christ bear the sins of all people for all time on the cross, in your view? If so, then justice was served.

Yes, justice was served, now we just need to accept the forgiveness offered by God as a free gift. If we continue to reject him, turn our backs on him, then he is just in sending us to hell.