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Calvinism vs. Baptists? Wassup?

Discussion in 'Controversial Theology (Christians only)' started by MormonFriend, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. MormonFriend

    MormonFriend Senior Veteran

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  2. Tigger45

    Tigger45 One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church Supporter Angels Team CF Ambassador

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    My papy use to tell me "if you want your goose cooked you have to stir the pot."
     
  3. Phantasman

    Phantasman Newbie

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  4. ananda

    ananda Early Buddhist & Gnostic Christian

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    Well said.
     
  5. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Economist

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    It's interesting. There is a divide - very notably between seminarians and the lay people. The person in the pew is more likely to not be a Calvinist but the one who's been to seminary is more likely to be a Calvinist; also, the younger generation seems more interested in Calvinism than before. I do disagree with the article on one point - Baptist have historically been heavily Calvinistic (though not unanimously so). I've been aware of the issue in the SBC for several years now.

    (I'm southern Baptist btw). My father was at the convention as a rep. back in the days of the "conservative takeover."

    Thanks for the article.
     
  6. Evergreen48

    Evergreen48 Senior Member

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    The Primitive, or Old School Baptists claim to be the original Baptists. They claim to be identical to the original English and Welsh Baptists who immigrated to colonial America. They are very Calvinistic in their doctrines and practices. The Primitive Baptists have been around for a much longer period of time than those who call them selves the "Reformed Baptists" (Tulip Baptists), or the "Convention Baptists" The Reformed Baptist movement has come about within the last 50 years, and did not "splinter" off from the Southern Baptist Convention. (I know this because I was raised in a Primitive Baptist Church.) They probably would be more likely to be a "splinter" group from either the Association, or the Conservative, or the Independent Baptists.
     
  7. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran

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    Calvin got the Scriptures, most notably Romans 9-11, very wrong. Predestination of individuals is not there in the Scriptures.

    John
    NZ
     
  8. drstevej

    drstevej CF Chaplain Staff Member Supporter Chaplain

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    There has always been a difference of opinion on Calvinism within the SBC since it was formed after the Civil War. It ebbs and flows.

    Also, there has always been both Calvinistic and non-Calvinistic Baptist groups since the 1600s. It was fodder for a dissertation in my case. The Soteriology of the English General Baptists to 1630.
     
  9. drstevej

    drstevej CF Chaplain Staff Member Supporter Chaplain

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  10. Evergreen48

    Evergreen48 Senior Member

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    Calvin got lots of things wrong. He was partly responsible for the murder of Michael Servetus who was burned alive at the stake because he resisted the Trinity Doctrine, Calvin being his main opponent in the "debate". I never knew any history of Calvin until I was a grown up and married. When I read his history, it started me thinking, and I thought, " why would such a obviously cruel man be given a spiritual truth"? The doctrine of election and predestination never did set too well with me, even when I was younger person. But thats what I was taught, and its hard to break away from something like that which has been so ingrained in the mind by the two people who you love and trust and depend on for your every need. But reading his history did make me start to study the Bible on my own without interference from family and friends. I surely can say that the Lord took me by the hand and led me out of this false doctrine.

    The scriptures do not teach the predestining of individuals to everlasting death, or 'hell' as some call it. :) But they do teach that there were some who were predestined to serve a special purpose pertaining to Jesus' Church.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2013
  11. Evergreen48

    Evergreen48 Senior Member

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    It allows "Unorthodox"people to post their views which they could not do in another forum. What does it hurt for it to be here?
     
  12. drstevej

    drstevej CF Chaplain Staff Member Supporter Chaplain

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    The City Council of Geneva put Servetus to death for sedition. Which history of Calvin did you read?

    Calvinism fits within the spectrum of Orthodoxy here at CF
     
  13. drstevej

    drstevej CF Chaplain Staff Member Supporter Chaplain

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    Here is the UT Forum purpose statement:

    This topic does not fit.
     
  14. Evergreen48

    Evergreen48 Senior Member

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    It wasn't Wickipedia's , that's for sure.

    I know that Calvinism fits within the "spectrum of Orthodoxy. But what I would have to say concerning Orthodox views wouldn't. :)
     
  15. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Yeah. I was wondering, "When did American Baptists stop being Calvinists?" Roger Williams was certainly a Calvinist!

    And if Baptists aren't Calvinists, then what of the "Freewill Baptists" (who have traditionally been the Baptists who rejected Calvinism)?

    But, really, I did realize long ago that the average Baptist didn't really know much about the foundations of their doctrine, except that they all believe in full immersion of adults. American Baptists tend to vary greatly.

    Now, "conservative takeover" surprises me. I've always known Baptists to be both doctrinally fundamentalist and socially conservative--especially Southern Baptists.
     
  16. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Naw, man, people around here are talking about non-conservative Baptists, which is about as unorthodox as you can get in the Bible Belt.
     
  17. Yekcidmij

    Yekcidmij Economist

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    It mostly had to do with inerrancy of the bible.
     
  18. Johnnz

    Johnnz Senior Veteran

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    Really? In some cases it's more to do with having an inerrant interpretation ("This IS what the Bible says..."). Matter settled forever.

    John
    NZ
     
  19. yogosans14

    yogosans14 Newbie

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    "Jesus is Micheal the Archangel"

    Isn't that a doctrine of men? :doh:
     
  20. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann I left Mormonism for Christ

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    "American Baptists tend to vary greatly." Absolutely. There are also General Baptists who believe in general, rather than limited, atonement.