Bullying

[Armoured]

So, just discovered my 9 year old daughter is being bullied. It's the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ant needling crap that each individual instance makes you look ridiculous if you report it, but collectively kids kill themselves over. She has been getting more and more distant for months, but always resisted direct questioning if anything was wrong. Tonight, in a huge teary explosion we got the whole story. She hates her life, she's not a real person, everyone hates her, she wishes she didn't exist. From a 9 year old.

I mean, we all had our angst phase as teenagers, but at 9 she should still be relatively care free and happy, right? Anyway, I'm walking her in to class tomorrow to directly confront the teacher about it, and if her response is inadequate, I'll go up the chain. Meanwhile, have spoken to family friends who are doctors who've secured a child psychologist referral for a few weeks time, but in the mean time, any advice? I'm an ex soldier with combat experience, and I just want to go bust some heads, but I could really use constructive suggestions. What's your story with bullying? How do we make the little creeps stop?

 

[Dave-W]

Bullying today is different than it was when I experienced it in the early and mid 1960s. Mine was physical (getting beaten up several times a week) and lasted from grades 1 to 6. But today it is more psychological. Your willingness to talk to the teachers and others involved will speak volumes to your daughter, whether she consciously realizes it now or not. Even just being a listening ear makes a difference. I was convinced it was my problem and ONLY my problem. Make sure she does not see it that way.

And pray with her. Share scriptures on how much God loves her, and as a child of the King of Kings - she is royalty. At 9 she may not comprehend all of that but that is ok. Just keep at it and it will start to sink in.

 

[Dave-W]

Oh - yeah - make sure to sign off any "search and destroy" ideas. That will only land you in big trouble instead of the bullies.

 

[Mountain_Girl406]

I'm sorry she's dealing with that, but I think you're making good steps. Two things that helped with my son were making sure he knew I was always there to listen to him, and introducing him to social groups outside of school so he could make additional friends and go somewhere separate where the issues in the classroom weren't there. We do ski team and SCA...medieval reenactment group.

 

[Armoured]

Oh - yeah - make sure to sign off any "search and destroy" ideas. That will only land you in big trouble instead of the bullies.

I know. It's just I spent so long where that sort of direct confrontation was my professional job, you know? Anyhow, thanks for the thoughts.

 

[brinny]

Nobody's life should be filled with such dread....especially a 9 yr olds...

i'm soooo sorry she is experiencing this....it seems schools have become places that breed abuse, and for kids to have to just endure it is inconceivabble.

Thanks for being a caring dad...too many parents throw their kids to the wolves so to speak..

i'm wondering if she should be removed from that school?

I hope all goes well with the teacher. Be aware that the bullying may intensify once you become involved.

I agree about the praying. I'm praying for your precious daughter and you and your family.

Seriously, they should start "friendship clubs" in schools and/or "buddy" systems.....

i was talking to a stressed mom on a Stressline and then i spoke to her daughter....her daughter is the one who came up with that idea, and not only did she help herself, but she helped countless others, who were "hiding in the shadows" at school.

My heart goes out to your daughter. Keep showing her LOTS and LOTS of love, find ways that you can laugh together, because she's most likely bereft of it right now...

"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones." ~Proverbs 17:22

 

[Dave-W]

I know. It's just I spent so long where that sort of direct confrontation was my professional job, you know?

I understand, at least in part.

While I was never in the military, (missed the draft by about 6 weeks) many of my buddies did the Viet Nam shuffle. Several came back with DSS; (now called PTSD) and hearing a jackhammer or a car backfiring would put them back in the jungle with snipers gunning for them. They described the search and destroy missions well enough that I got it, at least on an intellectual level. (certainly not the emotional or experiential level)

Which is why I said to be wary of that.

 

[Dave-W]

i'm wondering if she should be removed from that school?

It did not work for me. I got pulled from one school in the middle of 3rd grade and the bullying started up within a few weeks at the new school. In fact, the 2nd school was worse.

 

[Dave-W]

My heart goes out to your daughter. Keep showing her LOTS and LOTS of love, find ways that you can laugh together, because she's most likely bereft of it right now...

"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine: but a broken spirit drieth the bones." ~Proverbs 17:22

Amen and amen.

 

[brinny]

It did not work for me. I got pulled from one school in the middle of 3rd grade and the bullying started up within a few weeks at the new school. In fact, the 2nd school was worse.

Awwwww i'm sooo sorry.....

 

[brinny]

Praying for her school, and teachers, staff, Principal, and other parents, and all who are coming and going there.

God bless you.

 

[hedrick]

I teach 7th and 8th grade Sunday School. I also mentored a high school student a couple of years ago who was being seriously bullied. I’ve looked at a lot of advice to kids and parents. The kids tell me that most approaches don’t work. Telling a teacher is rarely useful. Both published evidence and my kids suggest that the best hope is to build a supportive community of kids. Ideally that will make bullying unacceptable. But at least it will give the victims friends who are supportive. It seems like the biggest effect of psychological bullying can greatly reduced if the kids around you support you. You’re less likely to have it effect self-esteem, and may find it easier to ignore. The high school kid did this by making specific efforts to support other victims. That’s a strategy I wouldn’t have thought of, but it seems well supported by the recent studies I’ve seen.

 

[keith99]

I teach 7th and 8th grade Sunday School. I also mentored a high school student a couple of years ago who was being seriously bullied. I’ve looked at a lot of advice to kids and parents. The kids tell me that most approaches don’t work. Telling a teacher is rarely useful. Both published evidence and my kids suggest that the best hope is to build a supportive community of kids. Ideally that will make bullying unacceptable. But at least it will give the victims friends who are supportive. It seems like the biggest effect of psychological bullying can greatly reduced if the kids around you support you. You’re less likely to have it effect self-esteem, and may find it easier to ignore. The high school kid did this by making specific efforts to support other victims. That’s a strategy I wouldn’t have thought of, but it seems well supported by the recent studies I’ve seen.

Excellent ideas. The main thing I have to add is that bullies don't put names in a hat to pick their victims, there always is a reason. Rarely it is just wrong place, wrong time. A huge part of the time a major component is that the victim is not part of any recognized group, isolated, an ideal victim. Finding a group obviously helps. Sometimes recognizing the reason helps. It is fairly common for part of the reason to be something good, something that makes the bullies feel inferior. Realizing that can provide a bit of armor against psychological damage. In my case and even more in the case of a female classmate the reason for the targeting was being brighter than the bullies. As best I recall I only got help from 3 people. Ironically 2 were the 2 guys in my class thought of as really slow. Part of that was they were also not in the click of the bullies, but I think also part was that the gap was large enough that my intelligence was not threatening to them. The other was the captain of the football team, he simply did not like bullying.

My little sister was teased mercilessly because she was pudgy. Hippo was the preferred epithet. But little sister was a girl and it seems most girls are horse crazy, little sister had it stronger than most. Once my parents pointed out one small fact the teasing was doomed. They pointed out hippopotamus means 'river horse'. The tease lost its sting.

Heck try to insult me by calling me a fatty or a piggy! It doesn't work because I am a prop, think an insane version of an offensive lineman in American football. It simply does not work trying to insult a prop aver physique.

Oh one other thought. Midyear transfers are death! You come in after the cliques are established, you are in none of them, you are the outsider and if you came in other than because your family moved there might as well be a target painted on your back.

 

[citizenthom]

As an attorney who has represented bullied kids and their parents, the one universal in bullying issues is, you cannot rely on the schools. At all. They are too ridiculously politically correct to label bullies as bullies and victims as victims. They refuse to punish anything short of extreme physical violence. In one case a school would not even ban a PARENT who was stalking a student on campus. My experience in this regard with our local school system is a major driver behind my decision to home-school our kids when they reach school age.

The other thing I can tell you from those experiences is, behind a bullying child almost ALWAYS stands a bullying parent. Often they already have experience with the legal system and know enough "right people" to screw with both you and your child. It seems especially common for them to have connections in the local school system. You must resist the urge to engage them because they will make trouble for YOU, and probably escalate things by egging on their child. Sad but true.

The above advice about focusing on a positive peer group for your child is as good as gold IMO. Bullies pick kids who care. Kids with better peers to choose from tend to care less. I can remember in school I used to think that the kids who avoided the "bully class" of kids were snooty. Truth is they were mentally healthier. They were right to see the bullies as social unequals and to avoid them and discredit them.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Aw. God bless your daughter. I'm sorry she's experiencing bullying that is depleting her joy and corroding her confidence. My nine and eight-year-old sisters have had already had a bit of teen angst, so it's unfortunately not that abnormal. It's after 4 in the morning here so I'm too obliterated with tiredness to really write much now but I did want to briefly share some of what helped me as a kid. I was very rarely ever overtly bullied in person at that age (I was passive aggressively bullied on a dance forum and YouTube starting around age 12) but I was excluded because of my age and size. I'd attended an excellent preschool in Germany that had let me start at an unusually early age, and when we moved to NYC I was leapfrogged into a higher grade level. I was two full years younger than the kids in my grade through elementary school and part of secondary school (an illness lead to me repeating one grade, making me just one year younger rather than two), and was skin and bones tiny. Even adults would act like I should be wrapped in cotton wool because I looked fragile. No one ever physically antagonized me or taunted me, but few were interested in befriending or including me. I loved school but felt lonely there for a while, and like I was a freak. I also was perpetually self-conscious and nervous about saying or doing something that would make me seem babyish. I spent a lot of time trying to copycat older kids and adults and dimmed myself outside of dance. I also used to have a massive problem with any form of rejection - if I didn't place high at a dance competition, or I got a disappointing grade, or I wasn't invited to something, or I messed up in a sports game - I'd self-loathe. I bullied myself. The summer I was nine I went to a karate camp that also taught self-assertiveness skills, and had training for standing up to bullying, and it helped me to start to build up more confidence. It altered how I approached and reacted to things. It actually had a huge impact on my life. I was athletic from dance and playing sports, but karate was physical in a different way. It was far more empowering. I only kept it up for a few years, but I feel like the mental benefits lasted for far longer. An awesome yoga class for kids that taught self-coping mechanisms and how to relieve stress was really helpful, too. I learned how to "be a filter, not a sponge" in the words of John Green.

My parents also worked with me in how to speak up for myself and how to take pride in who I am. They are doing the same with my youngest sister now. She is very sensitive and soft-spoken, and not one to just laugh off being teased like my 9-year-old sister. This has made her more vulnerable to the needling kind of bullying you're describing. Kids have memorized her buttons they can push. She's learning how to stand up for herself in a calmer, direct way. This workbook has been helpful:
http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Calm-Con...p/1572246308/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8 These tips might be useful, too: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...10/7-skills-teaching-your-child-stand-bullies There are other books my parents have that are about childhood bullying, and resources available online, too. Perhaps you can find some that are helpful to you and your daughter.

I do agree with the others that listening to her and showing your loyalty and dedication to her is huge. She needs to be heard. Sometimes just listening without interruption and then giving a hug and an expression of how much you love and value her can make the biggest difference. Try to look for ways to build her up. Be attentive to what she does right and give acknowledgement. Make the praise sincere and proportional - if it comes across as fake or overblown it won't be taken as seriously. If she's not already involved in extracurricular hobbies or activities she enjoys, help her to find some. She needs to build up friendships outside of school, and she also needs to have something positive to put her attention on. Social activities as well as solitary but enjoyable pursuits can be beneficial. I started taking art classes when I was her age, and they have continued to be so therapeutic for me. Healthy distractions from your day can help you to unwind, and to divert your attention away from something unpleasant. My youngest sister began taking sewing classes last year and loves them. She is a very serious dancer already, but that isn't a hobby that relaxes her. Sewing and knitting does, and it's something she takes pride in because she can see her work come to fruition in what she creates. It's something she can also do by herself but it doesn't make her feel alone. Getting pets have helped, too. People at school might be mean but pets tend to be loyal and steadfast with their love.

Best wishes to both of you.

Huh, this ended up not being so brief after all, haha.

 

[Armoured]

Aw. God bless your daughter. I'm sorry she's experiencing bullying that is depleting her joy and corroding her confidence. My nine and eight-year-old sisters have had already had a bit of teen angst, so it's unfortunately not that abnormal. It's after 4 in the morning here so I'm too obliterated with tiredness to really write much now but I did want to briefly share some of what helped me as a kid. I was very rarely ever overtly bullied in person at that age (I was passive aggressively bullied on a dance forum and YouTube starting around age 12) but I was excluded because of my age and size. I'd attended an excellent preschool in Germany that had let me start at an unusually early age, and when we moved to NYC I was leapfrogged into a higher grade level. I was two full years younger than the kids in my grade through elementary school and part of secondary school (an illness lead to me repeating one grade, making me just one year younger rather than two), and was skin and bones tiny. Even adults would act like I should be wrapped in cotton wool because I looked fragile. No one ever physically antagonized me or taunted me, but few were interested in befriending or including me. I loved school but felt lonely there for a while, and like I was a freak. I also was perpetually self-conscious and nervous about saying or doing something that would make me seem babyish. I spent a lot of time trying to copycat older kids and adults and dimmed myself outside of dance. I also used to have a massive problem with any form of rejection - if I didn't place high at a dance competition, or I got a disappointing grade, or I wasn't invited to something, or I messed up in a sports game - I'd self-loathe. I bullied myself. The summer I was nine I went to a karate camp that also taught self-assertiveness skills, and had training for standing up to bullying, and it helped me to start to build up more confidence. It altered how I approached and reacted to things. It actually had a huge impact on my life. I was athletic from dance and playing sports, but karate was physical in a different way. It was far more empowering. I only kept it up for a few years, but I feel like the mental benefits lasted for far longer. An awesome yoga class for kids that taught self-coping mechanisms and how to relieve stress was really helpful, too. I learned how to "be a filter, not a sponge" in the words of John Green.

My parents also worked with me in how to speak up for myself and how to take pride in who I am. They are doing the same with my youngest sister now. She is very sensitive and soft-spoken, and not one to just laugh off being teased like my 9-year-old sister. This has made her more vulnerable to the needling kind of bullying you're describing. Kids have memorized her buttons they can push. She's learning how to stand up for herself in a calmer, direct way. This workbook has been helpful:
http://www.amazon.com/Cool-Calm-Con...p/1572246308/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?ie=UTF8 These tips might be useful, too: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...10/7-skills-teaching-your-child-stand-bullies There are other books my parents have that are about childhood bullying, and resources available online, too. Perhaps you can find some that are helpful to you and your daughter.

I do agree with the others that listening to her and showing your loyalty and dedication to her is huge. She needs to be heard. Sometimes just listening without interruption and then giving a hug and an expression of how much you love and value her can make the biggest difference. Try to look for ways to build her up. Be attentive to what she does right and give acknowledgement. Make the praise sincere and proportional - if it comes across as fake or overblown it won't be taken as seriously. If she's not already involved in extracurricular hobbies or activities she enjoys, help her to find some. She needs to build up friendships outside of school, and she also needs to have something positive to put her attention on. Social activities as well as solitary but enjoyable pursuits can be beneficial. I started taking art classes when I was her age, and they have continued to be so therapeutic for me. Healthy distractions from your day can help you to unwind, and to divert your attention away from something unpleasant. My youngest sister began taking sewing classes last year and loves them. She is a very serious dancer already, but that isn't a hobby that relaxes her. Sewing and knitting does, and it's something she takes pride in because she can see her work come to fruition in what she creates. It's something she can also do by herself but it doesn't make her feel alone. Getting pets have helped, too. People at school might be mean but pets tend to be loyal and steadfast with their love.

Best wishes to both of you.

Huh, this ended up not being so brief after all, haha.

Thanks for this. Will look up the links, too.

The one recurring theme I'm getting in the couple of forums I asked for advice is that apparently some sort of martial arts is a big help. She does dance (was her end of year concert tonight, speaking of) which she enjoys, but I think the time has come to add something a little more disciplined and esteem boosting as well, so will start looking for a reputable MA school.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I teach 7th and 8th grade Sunday School. I also mentored a high school student a couple of years ago who was being seriously bullied. I’ve looked at a lot of advice to kids and parents. The kids tell me that most approaches don’t work. Telling a teacher is rarely useful. Both published evidence and my kids suggest that the best hope is to build a supportive community of kids. Ideally that will make bullying unacceptable. But at least it will give the victims friends who are supportive. It seems like the biggest effect of psychological bullying can greatly reduced if the kids around you support you. You’re less likely to have it effect self-esteem, and may find it easier to ignore. The high school kid did this by making specific efforts to support other victims. That’s a strategy I wouldn’t have thought of, but it seems well supported by the recent studies I’ve seen.

This is all true. Of course it matters to kids if their parents are showing care - and other adults - but they are so impressionable and wanting to relate to their peer groups at that age. If she could somehow find a good group to surround herself with it may help with strength

I'm also happy about the counseling. I was a depressed, miserable 9 yr old and I didn't get counseling for years after. Waiting can make the situation get worse and be harder to help later.

 

[LaSorcia]

You've gotten lots of good advice already. I would add one thing: to think of sending her to a martial arts class. I send my kid to aikido. Not a violent or attacking art, but a defensive one. It can help develop a feeling of self-confidence and efficacy, and at the later levels, provide protection against attacks.

 

[JCFantasy23]

You've gotten lots of good advice already. I would add one thing: to think of sending her to a martial arts class. I send my kid to aikido. Not a violent or attacking art, but a defensive one. It can help develop a feeling of self-confidence and efficacy, and at the later levels, provide protection against attacks.

If she's interested, that's not a bad idea. Not because of self defense only, but it's a group of people she can do a hobby with and that kind of exercise and training can help relieve stress/tension

 

[Dave-W]

One thing to watch out for with martial arts (Asian especially) is that the sensei/sifu/trainer does not throw in a lot of Buddhist or Taoist practice in with the martial arts. Many do and others do not. Some of those who do will insist that it is a necessary component. Chuck Norris has shown otherwise.