Born Again?

[Paradoxum]

Hi,

What is it like to be born again?

I think I was when I was younger, but perhaps it is something different from what I thought.

What does it feel like, or what changes occur? How do you see life differently?

I know it is a hard thing to answer with words because if being born again is a real thing then it is likely very 'other' and ineffable, but I would like to see if it sounds like anything meta-human.

What I am wondering is if it is possible for the un-reborn to comprehend what it means to be born again. This comes from reading part of one of Kierkegaard's books if anyone cares.

 

[Nails74]

What is it like to be born again? I think I was when I was younger, but perhaps it is something different from what I thought.

What I am wondering is if it is possible for the un-reborn to comprehend what it means to be born again. This comes from reading part of one of Kierkegaard's books if anyone cares.

I find it curious that you think you were born-again but your belief shows as agnostic.

I'm not sure if you believe the Bible, but this was the section that I thought of in regards to your question...

For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man that is in him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually. The spiritual person, however, can evaluate everything, yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. Forwho has known the Lord’s mind, that he may instruct Him?But we have the mind of Christ. [1 Corinthians 2:11-16]

What makes you think that you were born-again when you were younger?

 

[Paradoxum]

I find it curious that you think you were born-again but your belief shows as agnostic.

Well I wouldn't be able to answer whether I was Christian or agnostic.

I'm not sure if you believe the Bible, but this was the section that I thought of in regards to your question...

For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man that is in him? In the same way, no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who comes from God, so that we may understand what has been freely given to us by God. We also speak these things, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual things to spiritual people.
But the unbeliever does not welcome what comes from God’s Spirit, because it is foolishness to him; he is not able to understand it since it is evaluated spiritually. The spiritual person, however, can evaluate everything, yet he himself cannot be evaluated by anyone. Forwho has known the Lord’s mind, that he may instruct Him?But we have the mind of Christ. [1 Corinthians 2:11-16]

It is relevant, but it doesn't help me figure it out.

What makes you think that you were born-again when you were younger?

I was prayed for to be baptised in the Holy Spirit one night and after that I could speak in tongues, though wasn't very confident with it. Well I've never been very confident with it in public because of public speaking in general. Also my parents said they saw a change in me after that, though I didn't notice it. I gradually became more confident in telling people I was a Christian and felt worship to be more important than just singing songs. I ended up loving God and wanting to work for the church, if circumstances were kind.

Then faith went down hill and it hurt. I am now of my last hopes for the existence of God.

 

[razeontherock]

What I am wondering is if it is possible for the un-reborn to comprehend what it means to be born again.

Recently I came across another C's post, saying that it is failed logic to claim that Scripture can be understood via the Holy Spirit. While I disagree with that strongly, I can also validate it at least on some level. Anyone should be able to pick up a Bible, and at least get some sense out of it. Right?

Many claim they can't.

Re: the Word, it is not mere understanding of it on an intellectual level where I see the before and after difference, but in having it "pop up" in my mind at applicable times. (This itself is Scriptural, btw)

My own, personal, anecdotal, experience: (any other ways I can qualify that? )

When I asked Jesus to come into my life as Lord and Savior, it was a miraculous thing. The whole placed lit up so i could see, even though it was the middle of the night. There could really be no doubt in my mind, and the appropriate Scriptures popped into my mind, uncontrollably.

From that moment forward, Jesus was always there with me, pointing out everything I was so much as thinking that was contrary to what I knew of the Word. Is it blasphemy to say it was a real drag? I never asked Him to leave, but I'm quite sure many times I made Him feel un-welcome.

None of this had too much of an impact on any aspect of my life, except perhaps as compared to the version I would've become in some parallel universe where this event never happened.

About 3 1/2 years later that changed, after some more miraculous things of a private revelatory nature. I got brought into contact with His people, and exposed to some sound teaching that challenged me to grow. After being filled with the Holy Ghost, then things in my life started changing, and Jesus' Presence in my Life began being a Joy.

TMI? Not enough?

 

[Cuddles333]

"But we (Paul and the rest of the Apostles) have the mind of Christ." Many Christians have mistakenly interpreted this to mean that they themselves had the miraculous abilities that the Apostles had. What Paul was saying was that the false teachers, claiming that they were true Apostles and Paul and the other 12 were the imposters, actually did not have God's Holy Spirit working in and through them and here presented evidence that he and the 12 did.


But to the 'born again' question. Evidence of one experiencing this is the deep moral and spiritual change in the person. The inability to be able to continue in the old sinful ways even after giving in to the temptation/s. There is a hunger for the word of God. There is a greater understanding of it now than before.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hi,

What is it like to be born again?

I think I was when I was younger, but perhaps it is something different from what I thought.

What does it feel like, or what changes occur? How do you see life differently?

I know it is a hard thing to answer with words because if being born again is a real thing then it is likely very 'other' and ineffable, but I would like to see if it sounds like anything meta-human.

What I am wondering is if it is possible for the un-reborn to comprehend what it means to be born again. This comes from reading part of one of Kierkegaard's books if anyone cares.

Keep in mind that in most traditional Church traditions being born again is synonymous with Baptism, and thus for the vast many of the world's Christian population, they were born again while still in infancy and likely don't have any personal memory of the event (that does not make it any less meaningful and special, obviously, none of us remember our being born from our mother's womb but still find it meaningful and worth celebrating).

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ebia]

Indeed. I don't remember my biological birth either, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Paradoxum. The Bible asks us to Repent, to be born again. To be no longer as we were, to be different: born again. The old self: selfish and unloving/unkind, the born again self: loving and always be forgiving, and kind and helpful. It sounds harder than it really is.
Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love, also. Jesus told us to: "ask and ye will receive," then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with all around us. People will notice and will be kind, too, and God will see us being loving and kind, and God will bless us. Life will be much nicer, and people will be also.
Love is a very strong weapon, it brings friendship and helping hands, too. Try it for yourself, Paradoxum, and see what God can do. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

 

[bling]

Born again comes from Jesus answer to Nicodemus conversation John 3: 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

The best fit I see is believer emersion type baptism and fits Jesus explanation: John 3: 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

These are instructions for what Nicodemus needed to do next. Nicodemus was well trained, smart, and believed Jesus was from God, but he also believed John the Baptist was from God, but had not submitted to John’s baptism (this would have gotten in through out of the Pharisees sect and his powerful position. What Nicodemus need to do next in his spiritual path was be baptized with John’s baptism, so that is what Jesus is pointing out.

I agree we are not “baptized” for God’s sake or something we “do” but it is something we allow to be done to us, so baptism is a huge help for us. At conversion with baptism we have the opportunity to combine what is happening Spiritually with a physical act to support the reality: we are putting off our old life and transitioning into a new life, we bury the old sinful man (going under water), our sins are washed away (we feel the water running off our bodies), We release our control of ourselves to God (we place our body into the hands of a believer), we rise with Christ (rise from a watery grave) and we leave the water into the hands of our new brothers and sisters to start a new life. Why would any Christian not want that aid to their experience?

 

[Hospes]

I was prayed for to be baptised in the Holy Spirit one night and after that I could speak in tongues, though wasn't very confident with it. Well I've never been very confident with it in public because of public speaking in general. Also my parents said they saw a change in me after that, though I didn't notice it. I gradually became more confident in telling people I was a Christian and felt worship to be more important than just singing songs. I ended up loving God and wanting to work for the church, if circumstances were kind.

Then faith went down hill and it hurt. I am now of my last hopes for the existence of God.

Salvation is the act of God in bringing someone to himself; he causes a spiritually dead person to come to life. (The means of salvation is found in what Jesus does in giving a person His righteousness and Him having taken the punishment that rightfully belongs to the person.) With every new birth there are signs of new life. From what you describe you did, at some point, have some of those signs of spiritual new life. If God did truly give you his salvation, then you still have it. My guess is that you have his salvation, but your spiritual life is pretty much on life support.

So what caused such damage to your faith?

 

[Paradoxum]

Recently I came across another C's post, saying that it is failed logic to claim that Scripture can be understood via the Holy Spirit. While I disagree with that strongly, I can also validate it at least on some level. Anyone should be able to pick up a Bible, and at least get some sense out of it. Right?

Many claim they can't.

Re: the Word, it is not mere understanding of it on an intellectual level where I see the before and after difference, but in having it "pop up" in my mind at applicable times. (This itself is Scriptural, btw)

I think it is fair to say, from personal experience, that someone unsure of the existence of God can understand the Bible. It is hard to say if a Bible verse poping up in one mind is a substantial difference. That doesn't happen much to me, but then I don't justify things using the Bible so that is to be expected.

When I asked Jesus to come into my life as Lord and Savior, it was a miraculous thing. The whole placed lit up so i could see, even though it was the middle of the night. There could really be no doubt in my mind, and the appropriate Scriptures popped into my mind, uncontrollably.

I'm jealous you still have this. Sometimes I wish I wasn't able to doubt and question.

About 3 1/2 years later that changed, after some more miraculous things of a private revelatory nature. I got brought into contact with His people, and exposed to some sound teaching that challenged me to grow. After being filled with the Holy Ghost, then things in my life started changing, and Jesus' Presence in my Life began being a Joy.[/QUOTE]

A state of worship is one of the safest feelings to have, I think.

TMI? Not enough?

What?

 

[Paradoxum]

But to the 'born again' question. Evidence of one experiencing this is the deep moral and spiritual change in the person. The inability to be able to continue in the old sinful ways even after giving in to the temptation/s. There is a hunger for the word of God. There is a greater understanding of it now than before.

I assume it is possible to keep sinning once saved out of weakness to change, or would you disagree?

Keep in mind that in most traditional Church traditions being born again is synonymous with Baptism, and thus for the vast many of the world's Christian population, they were born again while still in infancy and likely don't have any personal memory of the event (that does not make it any less meaningful and special, obviously, none of us remember our being born from our mother's womb but still find it meaningful and worth celebrating).

By born again I mean when someone purposely commits to follow Christ. A baby can't do this.

Dear Paradoxum. The Bible asks us to Repent, to be born again. To be no longer as we were, to be different: born again. The old self: selfish and unloving/unkind, the born again self: loving and always be forgiving, and kind and helpful. It sounds harder than it really is.
Jesus will give us His Love and Joy, and the Holy Spirit will give us His Love, also. Jesus told us to: "ask and ye will receive," then we thank God and share all Love and Joy with all around us. People will notice and will be kind, too, and God will see us being loving and kind, and God will bless us. Life will be much nicer, and people will be also.
Love is a very strong weapon, it brings friendship and helping hands, too. Try it for yourself, Paradoxum, and see what God can do. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

I don't know if this is anything more than a psychological thing though.

 

[Paradoxum]

Born again comes from Jesus answer to Nicodemus conversation John 3: 3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

The best fit I see is believer emersion type baptism and fits Jesus explanation: John 3: 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.

These are instructions for what Nicodemus needed to do next. Nicodemus was well trained, smart, and believed Jesus was from God, but he also believed John the Baptist was from God, but had not submitted to John’s baptism (this would have gotten in through out of the Pharisees sect and his powerful position. What Nicodemus need to do next in his spiritual path was be baptized with John’s baptism, so that is what Jesus is pointing out.

I agree we are not “baptized” for God’s sake or something we “do” but it is something we allow to be done to us, so baptism is a huge help for us. At conversion with baptism we have the opportunity to combine what is happening Spiritually with a physical act to support the reality: we are putting off our old life and transitioning into a new life, we bury the old sinful man (going under water), our sins are washed away (we feel the water running off our bodies), We release our control of ourselves to God (we place our body into the hands of a believer), we rise with Christ (rise from a watery grave) and we leave the water into the hands of our new brothers and sisters to start a new life. Why would any Christian not want that aid to their experience?

By 'born again' I mean a significant change in someone because the Holy Spirit fills them. I would see this as something different from water baptism or saying the sinners prayer.

Salvation is the act of God in bringing someone to himself; he causes a spiritually dead person to come to life. (The means of salvation is found in what Jesus does in giving a person His righteousness and Him having taken the punishment that rightfully belongs to the person.) With every new birth there are signs of new life. From what you describe you did, at some point, have some of those signs of spiritual new life. If God did truly give you his salvation, then you still have it. My guess is that you have his salvation, but your spiritual life is pretty much on life support.

What happens if the life support is turned off?

So what caused such damage to your faith?

Doubt, questioning. There isn't one thing, but a broad question of Christian doctrine. I realised that I was very wrong about intelligent design and that I could be wrong about anything. This doubt was also backed by a desire to be free from arbitrary Christian morals. It felt like not being able to stop falling.

To bit one thing out, it seems that psychology is rather damaging to Christianity.

I just saw the date of the OP. How sad to get here so late...

I don't understand what you mean?

 

[razeontherock]

This doubt was also backed by a desire to be free from arbitrary Christian morals.

I need to qualify the comment I'm about to make: I am not the Holy Ghost. It is not my role to convict anyone else of sin. Having said that, is it possible that what you're expressing here is really a desire for sin?

We all have that. It seems to me that how we struggle against it has everything to do with God's Judgment on us, and His Blessing. (Which are both the same thing, IMHO)

 

[Hospes]

What happens if the life support is turned off?

Who is going to turn it off? I am thinking it's not going to be God. To stretch the analogy to the point of snapping: maybe God has induced a spiritual coma in order to eventually bring health back. Just guessing, of course.

Doubt, questioning. There isn't one thing, but a broad question of Christian doctrine. I realised that I was very wrong about intelligent design and that I could be wrong about anything. This doubt was also backed by a desire to be free from arbitrary Christian morals. It felt like not being able to stop falling.

To bit one thing out, it seems that psychology is rather damaging to Christianity.

Being somewhat familiar with science and Christian doctrine, I usually find the conflicts between the two to be due to a misunderstanding of at least one - and usually both - of them. ID is not a pillar of my faith, but I do find the alternative of an accidental existence to be depressingly nihilistic. (Never have understood the attraction to clinging so tightly to a belief system that unhinges life from any common purpose/meaning.) Not sure what you mean by arbitrary morals; I have found Christian morality in conflict with my bent, but not ever arbitrary. I have found Christianity rather damaging to psychology, at least the type that does not acknowledge God. Christianity offers a fairly coherent explanation of how a human metephysically functions. Best I can tell, phychology is quite eclectic in its explanations. All this is probably more than you wanted to know. I just figured givng my expereince with some of the things that hurt your faith may give you a different and useful perspective.

I don't understand what you mean?

Wrote that last comment because I just made a stupid mistake: I looked at the wrong date on the OP and thought it was months old. (Hard to believe I make a living as an engineer!) I covered my tracks and went back and deleted my comment.

BTW, I do certainly hope God is calling you back. Or calling you for the first time.

 

[Paradoxum]

I need to qualify the comment I'm about to make: I am not the Holy Ghost. It is not my role to convict anyone else of sin. Having said that, is it possible that what you're expressing here is really a desire for sin?

Said in a more explicit way, yes. To get to the point: Why is premarital sex wrong? In fact I would go as far as saying that if this wasn't hammer into my mind I might still be Christian. Perhaps not, because of my intellectual doubt is very much real, but still I would have a better chance. Even though I think it is possible for someone to be Christian and engage is such behaviour, it has been forged into my subconscious that I can't be a Christian and accept such things, and so I probably couldn't be Christian again even if most of the doubt left.

So I am saying that I don't think it is a sin consciously, but my subconscious tells me it is.

Who is going to turn it off? I am thinking it's not going to be God. To stretch the analogy to the point of snapping: maybe God has induced a spiritual coma in order to eventually bring health back. Just guessing, of course.

The life support may continue, but my brain activity could cease and therefore effectively making me dead. Your coma analogy is legitimate I think though.

Being somewhat familiar with science and Christian doctrine, I usually find the conflicts between the two to be due to a misunderstanding of at least one - and usually both - of them. ID is not a pillar of my faith, but I do find the alternative of an accidental existence to be depressingly nihilistic. (Never have understood the attraction to clinging so tightly to a belief system that unhinges life from any common purpose/meaning.)

I don't find origins to be an pillar of faith either, but the problem is what it represents to me. It shows me how easily I can be misguided.

Not sure what you mean by arbitrary morals; I have found Christian morality in conflict with my bent, but not ever arbitrary

.

Not all Christian morality and I don't think real Christian ethics is arbitrary, but the type that is presented by many Christians is. Gay is immoral, for example. Really? Only an appeal to authority or disgust can lead to this belief.

I have found Christianity rather damaging to psychology, at least the type that does not acknowledge God. Christianity offers a fairly coherent explanation of how a human metephysically functions. Best I can tell, phychology is quite eclectic in its explanations. All this is probably more than you wanted to know. I just figured givng my expereince with some of the things that hurt your faith may give you a different and useful perspective.

I have had religious experiences, hear of miracles going on around me, etc, yet I can still see how these things could be psychological.

Wrote that last comment because I just made a stupid mistake: I looked at the wrong date on the OP and thought it was months old. (Hard to believe I make a living as an engineer!) I covered my tracks and went back and deleted my comment.

Oh.

BTW, I do certainly hope God is calling you back. Or calling you for the first time.

I've got alot of thinking to do.

 

[Hospes]

I've got alot of thinking to do.

It's been enjoyable. For what it's worth to you, I will pray that you come off of life support and know what it is to enjoy real life.

 

[Nails74]

Said in a more explicit way, yes. To get to the point: Why is premarital sex wrong?

God created marriage and holds it in high regard...
Then the Lord God made the rib He had taken from the man into a woman and brought her to the man. And the man said:This one, at last, is bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh; this one will be called “woman,” for she was taken from man. This is why a man leaves his father and mother and bonds with his wife, and they become one flesh. [Genesis 2:22-24]

This is ultimately a parallel to the relationship of Christ to the Church...
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two will become one flesh. This mystery is profound, but I am talking about Christ and the church. [Ephesians 5:31-32]

The writer to the Hebrews further illustrates...
Marriage must be respected by all, and the marriage bed kept undefiled, because God will judge immoral people and adulterers. [Hebrews 13:4]

In fact I would go as far as saying that if this wasn't hammer into my mind I might still be Christian. Perhaps not, because of my intellectual doubt is very much real, but still I would have a better chance. Even though I think it is possible for someone to be Christian and engage is such behaviour, it has been forged into my subconscious that I can't be a Christian and accept such things, and so I probably couldn't be Christian again even if most of the doubt left.

A person who has been changed from the inside cannot continue on a constant path of sin...
This is how we are sure that we have come to know Him: by keeping His commands. The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” yet doesn't keep His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. [1 John 2:3-4]

So I am saying that I don't think it is a sin consciously, but my subconscious tells me it is.

The Bible even tells us that God's law is written on our hearts, explaining why your conscience tells you it is wrong...
They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts. Their consciences confirm this. Their competing thoughts will either accuse or excuse them on the day when God judges what people have kept secret, according to my gospel through Christ Jesus. [Romans 2:15-16]

Let me know if you want to discuss further...

 

[ViaCrucis]

By born again I mean when someone purposely commits to follow Christ. A baby can't do this.

Right, and I was pointing out that this isn't what Christianity has traditionally meant when we talk about the new birth. Historically the new birth is understood as happening at Baptism, this is the position of the ancient Church and is still the position of the Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Lutheran, Anglican (including Episcopalian), Moravian and other Historic Protestant bodies.

The idea that the new birth is when "someone purposely commits to following Christ" usually accompanied by "walking down the aisle" or "saying the sinner's prayer" and similar is an entirely modern notion.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[StormHawk]

What is it like to be born again?

Yes it is hard to describe in words only because those words will have to fit your limited understanding and experience ... "better felt than telt".
As Jesus said "unles you be born again you cannot see (understand) the kingdom of God". Paul and the early church saw it this way:

"Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him ... For what man knows the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knows no man, but the Spirit of God"
(1 Cor. 2:9-11)

I thought I was "born again" because I had sincerely been led through "the sinner's prayer" etc but it wasn't till I met spirit-filled people that I realised they had a nature I couldn't attain to - God's.

Here's my story:
I was brought up Anglican, but I only went because my dad wanted me to go, there was nothing inspiring there for me so when I left for University I stopped going. While there I started to consider the purpose of my life, and realised I didn't have one that satisfied me, "the world was my oyster", but there was no pearl! I tended to worry & had no answers, no fulfilling purpose, I no longer believed in my own ways.

When some people who obviously believed in the bible spoke to me I decided to investigate properly. I started going to various church meetings and was told to pray a “sinners prayer”, believing, and as such I was "a Christian". For the next 18 months I continued going to meetings and reading books by people considered to be "Christian leaders" to try and work out God's will for me, without success! All I got was opinions.

Then I met people who were not going to different churches and reading lots of books about God, they had a confidence and contentment I had not attained to, despite my efforts. I realised my relationship with God was mostly one-way, from me, not the daily, growing 2-way relationship they seemed to have.

They had received the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues (an unlearned prayer language that God leads his people in, cos only he knows his perfect will for us, it allows him to minister his grace & love to our hearts - 1 Cor. 14v2, 4; Jude 20-21). They also had other direct input and leading from God. After a while I realised I was getting nowhere spiritually so for the first time I actually prayed expecting God to *do* something... namely give me the same as them or whatever else I needed.

One evening I was alone in my room, not doubting or fearing, just believing God had said yes to me (because he could have no favourites), and wanting nothing more, I prayed and spoke in tongues and in the days that followed I realised I had the Life spoken of in the bible, whereas before I was trying to be something I was not!
Now I appreciate why things are the way they are, and more importantly, what life can be like.

I left the old churches because I could see they was as I was before, not as I wanted to be. The church I'm now in is like the one in the new testament, all members have the new Life, we have a unity I never found before. I now have contentment and fulfilling purpose that only the living God can give. I am now able to know God's thoughts and live according to His nature because I have His heart and mind through the Holy Spirit in me.

- - - - -

How important is it for you to know salvation for yourself?
In Luke 11:5-13 Jesus tells a parable of receiving the Spirit, the woman accepts that she has nothing to offer people - are you humble enough to admit that?
I realised it and that I was missing out .. I wanted the best and received it ... that was 25 years ago.