Being more domestic

[ardeur]

My husband and I were privately doing our homework assigned to us during our group couples Bible study at church. This was our activity:

1. My husband was supposed to tell me what *I* could do that would make *him* feel more loved in our relationship.
2. And I was to take a turn telling my husband what *he* could do that would make *me* feel loved.

My husband requested that I clean, do laundry, wash dishes, and cook more for him. He said, "In general, I would feel more loved if you were more domestic and did chores for BOTH of us. I don't want you to just wash my laundry, I would feel more loved if you hung up my shirts instead of laying them out for me. I never have time to put away my clothes."

I have to say that I REALLY struggled with this. We do not have children and we BOTH work full time. We both come home exhausted (like everyone).

Now I understand that a marriage is not a 50-50 partnership. Meaning: It would be extremely unwise to tally what each of us does for the home and make sure that we both come out even at the end of the day regarding chores and whatnot. That's ridiculous.

But I've honestly been wanting him to help out more around the house. We don't have to share things 50-50, but I've REALLY been desiring that he help me more instead of it being so one-sided since we married a year and a half ago. NO, I am not saying that he does nothing or never helps out. He does help me - but only sometimes. I'm really tired after work (like I know everyone is) and I would LOOOOOOVE it if he stepped up a little more. But he expressed to me that he wants me to be the one to take on the household duties more exclusively.

That makes me incredibly sad. I know most people don't enjoy chores and stuff, but whenever we come together and do them it is SOOO much easier and faster. The burden is so much lighter. I really love it when he helps me. He doesn't have to WANT to want to clean - I just don't want to be in charge of the house exclusively like he requested of me.

So I suppose I would like to know if his request is... if I'm wrong and being selfish or if something else is wrong. I just feel so greived.

Oh yes, I did tell him right away that I LOVE it when instead he helps me out with the chores. I told him how much I appreciate that. He never responded to that. The subject was dropped.


Side note: my answer to the homework problem was this: "I feel very loved when you compliment me and affirm me with your words. I love it when you say nice things and tell me how much you appreciate what I've done or how well I'm doing something, etc."

 

[RobinRedbreast]

You are asking if you are being selfish wanting to split the chores more evenly. In my opinion, you are not.

I used to get upset because I'd come home tired and I'd never get all the chores done. A lot of the time our house is a wee bit messy And that makes me sad, because I always take it to be my personal responsibility.

DH always made a point of mentioning that we both do the same amount of work and he intended to help out around the house. If I'm doing chores, he always asks if he can do something to, typically I'm the one to wave him off.

DH mentioned to me in the past that if I were a stay at home wife, that would be a different scenario, because chores then become my job frankly. And I agree with him. But I'm not a SAHW, we both work 8 hour days and commute home and are tired. Maybe not everything gets done, but that is both of our responsibilities even though I still take it a little personally that I can't kick myself into gear a little more often and be all domestic-crazed woman

But I've started to take it less personally when the house is messy, since DH is right, we're both equal partners in the working world and at home, we both have a similar role as breadwinners in our family.

I also don't cook. I just can't DH can though, luckily.


Now, I say to you the same thing.. if you were a SAHW and this was your only job, not doing it would be a problem. But you work a full day and so does your husband. Splitting the chores doesn't seem unreasonable... BUT...

If he is going to insist on you doing more chores, there should be something else that he will also take care of on his own IMO. While you are doing all those chores, I can't help but think "what exactly is he doing? sitting around?" -- I mean, I take pride in cleaning my home, even if DH wants to do something else, but like I said above... he always offers. That's what is important. If I wave him off, at that point its my choice, no one forced me to not accept the help.

In this case, I feel like your husband doesn't even want to offer the help So what, exactly, will he be doing while you're doing all that, that has him so busy he can't offer to lend a hand What exactly is it he intends to do with his freed-up time from not having any chores He claims to be too busy to hang up the clothes... doing what? If it's working or something like that, then I can sort of understand what he's saying.

If he's doing something equally important, to contribute to the house, then in -that- case I sort of see his side of the story more. But if he's just too busy on, say, a hobby.. and considers that "too busy to lend a hand".. eh, that's more concerning to me.



I suppose I'm more ranting than giving you advice. I don't think your selfish, but, you should both talk about it

 

[pgp_protector]

But I've honestly been wanting him to help out more around the house

Have you actually asked him to help out more ?
Or just Hint at it ?

(Men aren't the best a reading hints)

 

[ardeur]

DH mentioned to me in the past that if I were a stay at home wife, that would be a different scenario, because chores then become my job frankly. And I agree with him. But I'm not a SAHW, we both work 8 hour days and commute home and are tired. Maybe not everything gets done, but that is both of our responsibilities even though I still take it a little personally that I can't kick myself into gear a little more often and be all domestic-crazed woman

My DH has mentioned that to me too - if I became a SAHW or SAHM. I think the MAJORITY of the household stuff would then be MY responsibility, but even so, I would still expect him to help out even a little after he gets home from work. He lives there and makes messes and it's his home - even if he has a SAHW he still needs to contribute a tiny bit.

I also don't cook. I just can't DH can though, luckily.

I CAN cook and I DO, but I HATE it. Lately it's been about 50-50, but he'll be the one to pick up more cooking than I do. I tend to "binge cook and bake" over the weekend. So I guess we share pretty well with the cooking. He enjoys it more.

If he is going to insist on you doing more chores, there should be something else that he will also take care of on his own IMO. While you are doing all those chores, I can't help but think "what exactly is he doing? sitting around?" -- I mean, I take pride in cleaning my home, even if DH wants to do something else, but like I said above... he always offers. That's what is important. If I wave him off, at that point its my choice, no one forced me to not accept the help.

In this case, I feel like your husband doesn't even want to offer the help So what, exactly, will he be doing while you're doing all that, that has him so busy he can't offer to lend a hand What exactly is it he intends to do with his freed-up time from not having any chores He claims to be too busy to hang up the clothes... doing what? If it's working or something like that, then I can sort of understand what he's saying.

If he's doing something equally important, to contribute to the house, then in -that- case I sort of see his side of the story more. But if he's just too busy on, say, a hobby.. and considers that "too busy to lend a hand".. eh, that's more concerning to me.

He'll be sitting at the computer playing video games. It's been a point of great contention between us, but he IS improving. He's at the point where he'll more or less jump up right away if I request his help with something. I've come to the point of realizing that video games are his escape, his relaxation, and his way of spending time with his guy friends. So in that regard, it's important for him to do on a reasonable level - not playing for 8 hours straight on both Saturday AND Sunday plus all evening Friday while expecting me to prepare meals and clean up and do all the other chores. GAH! I think we've moved beyond that, though.

So I think you have a good point. If in general, he will be helping out in another way to "match" what I am doing around the house, then I might feel better. I would feel less ALONE in these duties. Again, it doesn't have to be a give-and-take or a perfect 50-50, either.

 

[ardeur]

Have you actually asked him to help out more ?
Or just Hint at it ?

(Men aren't the best a reading hints)

I haven't sat down with him and DISCUSSED that I want him to help out more.

But I DO ask him to help me at those times when it's becoming very difficult for me to do it on my own. It hurts because I'm met with a lot of grumbling and complaining. No, I don't want him to WANT to, but I don't want him to grumble and complain that he has to help. :-(

 

[DZoolander]

Tell you what I'd do.

I'd tell him that was cool... You'll be happy to make him feel more loved and appreciated by hanging up his clothing as well.

Then when it comes to what will make *YOU* feel more loved and appreciated - tell him it would make you feel more loved and appreciated if he were to always do the dishes and put them away, clean the toilet at least once per week, make sure the shower was properly cleaned weekly, and the floors swept regularly.

Tell him *that's* what would make you feel loved, since fair is fair.

 

[RobinRedbreast]

No, I don't want him to WANT to, but I don't want him to grumble and complain that he has to help. :-(

Ugh this is HUGE for me too, just of people in general. I can't stand when people begrudgingly agree to do something but then whine and complain and SULK about it the whole freakin time, or just have a sour look on their face, it reeeeeeally bugs me. :o

 

[bliz]

Your husband acts like an immature child.

If you wear clothes, you launder them. If you eat food, you prepare it and clean up. If you sleep in a bed, you make it. You are simply asking him to be an adult. And he doesn't want to do it.

Please don't have kids until this is sorted out.

 

[ardeur]

Tell you what I'd do.

I'd tell him that was cool... You'll be happy to make him feel more loved and appreciated by hanging up his clothing as well.

Then when it comes to what will make *YOU* feel more loved and appreciated - tell him it would make you feel more loved and appreciated if he were to always do the dishes and put them away, clean the toilet at least once per week, make sure the shower was properly cleaned weekly, and the floors swept regularly.

Tell him *that's* what would make you feel loved, since fair is fair.

I wanted to respond that way so badly, but I thought it would only cause an argument, then hurt feelings, etc.

Instead I told him, "I really love it when you help me out with all those things."

 

[ardeur]

Your husband acts like an immature child.

If you wear clothes, you launder them. If you eat food, you prepare it and clean up. If you sleep in a bed, you make it. You are simply asking him to be an adult. And he doesn't want to do it.

Please don't have kids until this is sorted out.

My feelings exactly. :-(

 

[Adamantium]

First, I think it's not productive to say or even think that your husband is being an immature child. When we have this kind of problem with differing desires/expectations in a marriage, blame and derision only make things worse. Even if you don't say these things to your spouse, the attitude creeps into your dealings with them.

So banish blame and anger over this from your heart. Pray for help doing that.

OK, now we have to figure out how to find a compromise. Did your husband's mother do all the housework? What was the relationship between his parents like? We all learn "how it's supposed to be" from the way we see our parents behave. If his mother took care of all the domestic stuff, then your husband probably thinks that's how wives & mothers show their love. He may not even realize that he's thinking that way.

I think you two need to have a discussion about this, at a time when you are not angry or emotional. I'd advise you to do some preparation. Men are very literal and visual, generally, so I'd make a spreadsheet of all the jobs that need to be done around the house, how often, and how much time each job takes. Figure out how much time each of you has left over during the day after working, commuting, sleeping, bathing and eating. Also put in 1 hour a day for spending time together. Present all of this to him, so he can clearly see that there's more work than one of you can do.

Suggest that each of you assume sole responsibility for some of the things on the list, maybe 2, and that all the others be shared. Ask him which ones he wants.

So for instance, if it really makes him feel loved to have his laundry all taken care of then you can do that. In exchange, then he'll assume responsibility for keeping the bathrooms spotless.

My husband and I did this early on in our marriage and it stopped the fights cold. I am solely responsible for laundry and keeping the dog groomed. He's solely responsible for trash & recycling, cleaning the bathrooms and mowing/snow removal. Everything else we share, as we have time. I do about 75% of the cooking, and he does about 75% of the dishes. Typically we spend a Saturday morning together every other week doing housework. Dusting, mopping, vacuuming and so on. And twice a year we tackle a big project together like cleaning the garage or basement or closets. Not only has it kept our house reasonably clean all the time, but the joint cleaning sessions have become a bonding ritual for us.

I hope this helps you in some small way.

 

[bliz]

Adamantium -

I did not suggest that the OP tell her husband he was an immature child! Even though he is...

Your advice to sort out who will do what, always changable, is great.

I have a friend whose mother-in-law would rinse out pop cans before putting them in recycling and would wash off paper plates before throwing them in the trash. Her husband expected her to do those things, too. They sat and had a chat and she agreed to rinsing out the cans, but not to the washing of the plates.

There is a problem if he had refused to give up on the washing of papoer plates, or if the husband rejects the responsibility of doing any household chores.

 

[ardeur]

First, I think it's not productive to say or even think that your husband is being an immature child. When we have this kind of problem with differing desires/expectations in a marriage, blame and derision only make things worse. Even if you don't say these things to your spouse, the attitude creeps into your dealings with them.

So banish blame and anger over this from your heart. Pray for help doing that.

OK, now we have to figure out how to find a compromise. Did your husband's mother do all the housework? What was the relationship between his parents like? We all learn "how it's supposed to be" from the way we see our parents behave. If his mother took care of all the domestic stuff, then your husband probably thinks that's how wives & mothers show their love. He may not even realize that he's thinking that way.

I think you two need to have a discussion about this, at a time when you are not angry or emotional. I'd advise you to do some preparation. Men are very literal and visual, generally, so I'd make a spreadsheet of all the jobs that need to be done around the house, how often, and how much time each job takes. Figure out how much time each of you has left over during the day after working, commuting, sleeping, bathing and eating. Also put in 1 hour a day for spending time together. Present all of this to him, so he can clearly see that there's more work than one of you can do.

Suggest that each of you assume sole responsibility for some of the things on the list, maybe 2, and that all the others be shared. Ask him which ones he wants.

So for instance, if it really makes him feel loved to have his laundry all taken care of then you can do that. In exchange, then he'll assume responsibility for keeping the bathrooms spotless.

My husband and I did this early on in our marriage and it stopped the fights cold. I am solely responsible for laundry and keeping the dog groomed. He's solely responsible for trash & recycling, cleaning the bathrooms and mowing/snow removal. Everything else we share, as we have time. I do about 75% of the cooking, and he does about 75% of the dishes. Typically we spend a Saturday morning together every other week doing housework. Dusting, mopping, vacuuming and so on. And twice a year we tackle a big project together like cleaning the garage or basement or closets. Not only has it kept our house reasonably clean all the time, but the joint cleaning sessions have become a bonding ritual for us.

I hope this helps you in some small way.

His mother DID do all the housework and she still does. That explains why he would want me to be more like that. Those are the roles he's used to.

Alternatively, MY mother and father joined together in the housework (or made the kids do it!). It was always a joint effort between them. If one person was sick, home late, utterly exhausted, or if my mom had a baby, or WHATEVER then the other spouse would step up without needing to be asked. I REAAAALY admire my parents for this and it's what I want in MY marriage.

So yes... I clearly see why my husband and I have differing ideas about household duties.

And yes, thank you for reminding me to banish all blame and anger towards him from my heart. I let myself be upset over it yesterday. I need to pray about that.

Maybe the duties thing would help us a lot.

 

[ardeur]

I wrote DH an email expressing my feelings and suggesting that we work out individual and shared duties in the home. In my gut I feel like this is NOT going to go over well. :-(

 

[snoochface]

I wrote DH an email expressing my feelings and suggesting that we work out individual and shared duties in the home. In my gut I feel like this is NOT going to go over well. :-(

It sounds like a perfectly fair and reasonable request.

And if he wants you to show your love to him by folding his laundry and putting away his clothes, that's fine, but then maybe one of his duties can be to run the vacuum while you're folding and putting away. If he'd rather you clean the bathrooms, maybe one of his duties can be to dust the furniture. And if he'd rather play video games with his pals, that's fine too, but then he should be okay with you popping in a DVD while he's doing that.

He can have what he wants, but he really is going to need to learn to give what you want too. That's what marriage is, taking care of each other's needs.

 

[pgp_protector]

It sounds like a perfectly fair and reasonable request.

And if he wants you to show your love to him by folding his laundry and putting away his clothes, that's fine, but then maybe one of his duties can be to run the vacuum while you're folding and putting away. If he'd rather you clean the bathrooms, maybe one of his duties can be to dust the furniture. And if he'd rather play video games with his pals, that's fine too, but then he should be okay with you popping in a DVD while he's doing that.

He can have what he wants, but he really is going to need to learn to give what you want too. That's what marriage is, taking care of each other's needs.

 

[ardeur]

He got back to me and he was apologetic and admitted that I have been doing more around the house with less help from him. He expressed appreciation for all I've been doing for him and how much it helps when he has a heavy workload. He agrees that we should try to delegate household duties so that neither one of us feels alone and overwhelmed in keeping up the house.

I reminded him that my purpose is not to overwhelm him with more work when he feels overburdened at school. I reminded him that his program takes priority over this, but I do want to work something out so I won't be left with caring for the house by myself for months at a time.

So that turned out FAR better than I expected. I can't believe what a heavy load that took off my heart.

 

[ardeur]

Was the point of this activity to identify what you can do to make your spouse loved so that you just go do them (IE, the activity was you telling the other partner what to do to meet your needs with the expectation that they be done), or was the point to identify what you can do to make your spouse feel more loved so that you know what you can do to make them happy and then slowly focusing on those things as they are reasonable (IE, the activity was creating an ideal wishlist, then striking the more reasonable ground on a dream-ideal, and employing that)? And was the goal to list a physical need to express love better, or an emotional need?

I have to tell you, your response and his response to the questions are entirely different and probably totally inadvertantly unequal in terms of what's being asked. You asked for more praise and support emotionally, he asked for more manual work and manual service. Even though the question was inherently the same in words, by your responses it seems you both took different meanings from it. I suspect that if you thought that the question was about meeting physical needs, you'd have listed joint division of housework as your need to be met, while I suspect that if he thought the question was about meeting emotional needs, he'd have answered in a way more befitting your original answer.

As written, I think the question was a poor one. It wasn't well defined, and in an attempt to share openness, it leaves the door open for this kind of miscommunication (and subsequent stress) between couples.

I completely agree. The question was very undefined and very open-ended. The whole study has been terrible like this and I'm glad it's over. I DO think DH and I interpreted the question differently.

I honestly have no idea what the POINT of the question was. It was unclear and open ended.

Honestly, sometimes it seems that certain bible studies or book studies or whatnot CREATE problems. I'm not saying they all are, but in my personal experience, I HAVE experienced this.

 

[Adamantium]

Ardeur, my husband is in graduate school, and he spends many long hours studying. He hasn't gone to bed earlier than midnight in weeks. We've both agreed that his schooling is our priority, so we'll do whatever we have to so that he can excel. So I know first hand that it's possible to work this sort of thing out.

What I've learned is that this sort of discussion goes much better if you (by which I mean both of you) are calm, respectful and loving. If you approach this or any other problem with a promise not to get defensive or accusatory, but instead to look at it like you are a team with a problem to solve together, just about anything can be resolved pretty easily.

Once you get into a cycle of anger and recrimination, then it's very hard to get out of it, so the trick is to never start. That's why I recommended the spreadsheet. Actually, I think it's useful to quantify lots of things before talking about them. Especially when you're dealing with men, who by and large just don't understand subtext.

I make lists and diagrams of all sorts of things. Shopping schedules, budgets, chores, you name it. My husband thinks I'm an organizational genius because of this, and so when I say we will need to spend X amount of time on chores this week and how shall we divvy that up, he no longer questions or argues, he just believes me and answers the question.


I think I've started rambling. Sorry. Maybe I should go make a list or something.

 

[ardeur]

Ardeur, my husband is in graduate school, and he spends many long hours studying. He hasn't gone to bed earlier than midnight in weeks. We've both agreed that his schooling is our priority, so we'll do whatever we have to so that he can excel. So I know first hand that it's possible to work this sort of thing out.

What I've learned is that this sort of discussion goes much better if you (by which I mean both of you) are calm, respectful and loving. If you approach this or any other problem with a promise not to get defensive or accusatory, but instead to look at it like you are a team with a problem to solve together, just about anything can be resolved pretty easily.

Once you get into a cycle of anger and recrimination, then it's very hard to get out of it, so the trick is to never start. That's why I recommended the spreadsheet. Actually, I think it's useful to quantify lots of things before talking about them. Especially when you're dealing with men, who by and large just don't understand subtext.

I make lists and diagrams of all sorts of things. Shopping schedules, budgets, chores, you name it. My husband thinks I'm an organizational genius because of this, and so when I say we will need to spend X amount of time on chores this week and how shall we divvy that up, he no longer questions or argues, he just believes me and answers the question.


I think I've started rambling. Sorry. Maybe I should go make a list or something.

Aw! Thank you! In our emails this morning we were loving and understanding. I did not trust myself to keep calm, so I put the essence of my thoughts into an email. I held onto it for a few hours reading and rereading it. I wanted to make sure I wasn't attacking him, pushing him into a corner, blaming, etc. I wanted to be objective and as truthful as possible.

His response was the best I could have expected.

I think I'll work on a list this afternoon.