Barbies, Beauty & Head-Coverings: How Do Orthodox Train Children for Dress Styles?

[Dorothea]

Oh my. I really hope not. It's already wild enough...but then again, anything is being used to teach philosophy/worldviews that believers disagree with...so I'd not be suprised if I had to tell my young ones that Drag Queen Barbie is an attempt to get children away from the Bible just as Barbies of differing levels of immodesty have been used to teach young girls the wrong values.

well, I was just being silly. I wouldn't think they'd go that far. I am still laughing at the Ken clothes up above. Sorry.

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, I was just being silly. I wouldn't think they'd go that far. I am still laughing at the Ken clothes up above. Sorry.

I dunno. it seems with each passing year the stuff on the fringe, becomes more and more the norm. I could see it happening eventually.

 

[Dorothea]

I dunno. it seems with each passing year the stuff on the fringe, becomes more and more the norm. I could see it happening eventually.

I don't know. Could they be any worse than the horrid Bratz Dolls? They were truly trampish. Are they even still out?

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Could they be any worse than the horrid Bratz Dolls? They were truly trampish. Are they even still out?

Very much around, sadly. Don't even know how such a line got THAT famous, especially considering the name alone.

Got bothered EVERYTIME I went to the store/saw them, as it just seemed to carry a very bad vibe/spirit with it as if it was promoting the ideology of being in your face as cool. And I see enough of that in real life with girls who have way too much attitude or get offended the moment you don't support their every move. The dolls seem to have a very seducing look to them as well and have a "Diva" feel to them.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

it seems with each passing year the stuff on the fringe, becomes more and more the norm. I could see it happening eventually.

Right there with ya. I remember being shocked when dolls made from the film/comic "Spawn" came out and toys as well, as I thought the toys were WAY too demonic for anyone to be playing with...and they keep pushing things bit by bit.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I wouldn't think they'd go that far. I am still laughing at the Ken clothes up above. Sorry.

Trust me, it had me rolling when I saw it and it's hard not to wonder if folks don't crack up when making the doll

 

[Dorothea]

Very much around, sadly. Don't even know how such a line got THAT famous, especially considering the name alone.

Got bothered EVERYTIME I went to the store/saw them, as it just seemed to carry a very bad vibe/spirit with it as if it was promoting the ideology of being in your face as cool. And I see enough of that in real life with girls who have way too much attitude or get offended the moment you don't support their every move. The dolls seem to have a very seducing look to them as well and have a "Diva" feel to them.

Yes. I personally think those are worse than Barbie. Ugh

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yes. I personally think those are worse than Barbie. Ugh

Would you ever think it appropriate to correct someone if they had a child bring those dolls to church to play with them? Be it in nursery or service? I know others are of the mindset that toys are toys and there's not spiritual content behind it...although there are some preachers who'd be quick to go after that/anything else they felt was demonic in the service.

 

[Dorothea]

Trust me, it had me rolling when I saw it and it's hard not to wonder if folks don't crack up when making the doll

 

[ArmyMatt]

I don't know. Could they be any worse than the horrid Bratz Dolls? They were truly trampish. Are they even still out?

I think they are still out for one. but yeah, if they can be made worse, they will be.

 

[Dorothea]

Would you ever think it appropriate to correct someone if they had a child bring those dolls to church to play with them? Be it in nursery or service? I know others are of the mindset that toys are toys and there's not spiritual content behind it...although there are some preachers who'd be quick to go after that/anything else they felt was demonic in the service.

I'd only say something if they brought them into Church school where we are to learn about Christ and our faith and toys are for later. I wouldn't say anything to other parents on those issues as it's their free will and choice on what they give their kids. Seeing how my own niece had a Bratz doll when she was young, I really didn't say anything because the way I raise my kids is not the same as my sister, and I don't think she's a bad mother. Her daughters (my nieces) are wonderful. I just don't care for those dolls.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

I'd only say something if they brought them into Church school where we are to learn about Christ and our faith and toys are for later. I wouldn't say anything to other parents on those issues as it's their free will and choice on what they give their kids. .

To be clear, what you're saying is that you'd speak to your children if they tried to bring something into Church school but would refrain from telling other parents in the Church to do the same? Or are you saying you'd speak to your children as well as other Orthodox children on the issue if they brought things into Church school while you'd leave alone parents outside of that context? Just trying to be certain...

I also ask in light of something I came across that spoke on the issue of toys (from an Orthodox perspective) and the dangers of leading children astray by them.

• Offend Not These Little Ones: On Toys and Children - Orthodox Christian Information Center

If you've ever come across it before, would love to hear your thoughts/

Seeing how my own niece had a Bratz doll when she was young, I really didn't say anything because the way I raise my kids is not the same as my sister, and I don't think she's a bad mother. Her daughters (my nieces) are wonderful. I just don't care for those dolls

Family ties can always make a huge difference....

 

[Gxg (G²)]

 

[Annoula]

how is modesty promoted via plenty of make up under the veils and burkas,
and on anorectic dolls?

that is the question!!

and ... hi! i am back (for those who remember me)!!

 

[Dorothea]

To be clear, what you're saying is that you'd speak to your children if they tried to bring something into Church school but would refrain from telling other parents in the Church to do the same? Or are you saying you'd speak to your children as well as other Orthodox children on the issue if they brought things into Church school while you'd leave alone parents outside of that context? Just trying to be certain...

I also ask in light of something I came across that spoke on the issue of toys (from an Orthodox perspective) and the dangers of leading children astray by them.

• Offend Not These Little Ones: On Toys and Children - Orthodox Christian Information Center

If you've ever come across it before, would love to hear your thoughts/

No, what I'm saying is when I am teaching school, sometimes they bring in toys, which is ok as long as they don't play with them during Church school. I haven't had to deal with anything like that (inappropriate toys in the classroom), so I am not sure I can really answer that.

 

[Dorothea]

how is modesty promoted via plenty of make up under the veils and burkas,
and on anorectic dolls?

that is the question!!

and ... hi! i am back (for those who remember me)!!

Of course we remember you! I hope you're doing well! Welcome back.

 

[ArmyMatt]

how is modesty promoted via plenty of make up under the veils and burkas,
and on anorectic dolls?

that is the question!!

and ... hi! i am back (for those who remember me)!!

that is a Hamlet worthy question, and welcome back! good to see you again!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

how is modesty promoted via plenty of make up under the veils and burkas,
and on anorectic dolls?

that is the question!!

Good question to consider, although there is a doll out there that was made in protest to what Barbie seemed to present regardless of how fashionable/modest she seemed to be. The doll was intentionally made to be overweight and designed for making the point that not many dolls would be made like that to truly teach on beauty. Mattel sued them for making the doll, but the people doing so have been fighting back. As said earlier, for more information, there was a good article on that entitled GUEST POST: Why there are no fat Disney princesses | Moniqueblog.


Even though Barbie by nature has a body that would be deadly in human terms for anyone to try matching up, what she wears seems to have always been the focus. And with the veils/burkas, to my knowledge, it's not as if people who do so in real life do not have any kind of make-up on.

They're not allowed to wear make-up which has haram ingrediants in it..and although they are allowed to wear make-up, they are to be in hijab in the front of non-mahram men. Thus, when they get home from work, they can shower/dress and do their hair and make-up for their husbands...but when they leave home, they will wash their faces/remove make-up and cover properly first......at least from what I've learned. And within the Biblical culture, wearing veils/coverings didn't mean that one could not wear make-up as well.

That said, I doubt Mattel was thinking that deeply into things when they made the dolls as they were since they can't get perfection at all points....

 

[Gxg (G²)]

No, what I'm saying is when I am teaching school, sometimes they bring in toys, which is ok as long as they don't play with them during Church school. I haven't had to deal with anything like that (inappropriate toys in the classroom), so I am not sure I can really answer that.

Understood. I was curious as to how one would prepare for such an event should it ever occur where inappropriate toys were in the classroom...and whether or not they'd need to be removed immediately.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

She's beautiful!

Had to let ya know that I was recently shopping around for other types of Eastern barbies and came across this one which seemed very stunning:

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Although it would be cool if I could get this for my sister, I wish the doll was smiling since she seemed a bit too serious - and the doll is from Russian culture..and for any Russian Orthodox, I hope the dress style isn't one where others would take offense. Never been to a Russian Orthodox service - and I don't know what exactly they'd take with them that'd be fashionable.​

Also, found out something from one of the ministry sites I've referenced before - known as Voice of the Copts, a nonprofit organization dedicated to fighting the spread of Islamic supremacy and Sharia throughout the Western world through education, advocacy and action...specifically by drawing attention to the suffering of Coptic Christians in Egypt. When studying the ministry, Voice of the Copts did a piece on the issue of Eastern dolls - sharing how the dolls were a threat to their way of life. Consequently, the goverment of Iran came out with “Sara and Dara”, appropriately dressed dolls for little girls, one of them wearing a head scarf. One report quoted Iranian toy seller Masoumeh Rahimi who allegedly welcomed the dolls, saying Barbie was "foreign to Iran's culture" because "some of the buxom, blonde dolls have revealing clothing." The toy seller allegedly said young girls who play with Barbie, a doll 'she sees as wanton,' could grow into women who reject Iranian values. "I think every Barbie doll is more harmful than an American missile," Rahimi was quoted as saying.​

They said in one interview that the dolls promote traditional values and pro-family backgrounds - with Sara and Dara telling little girls their goal in life should be to get married, keep house, produce children and probably not question male authority. But the modestly dressed Iranian dolls, Dara and Sara, have not sold as well as Barbie in the country's toy stores.​

• Little Girls Protest Iran Barbie Ban: Alternate Doll 'Ugly and Fat'
• Iran Bans Barbie: Meet Dara and Sara -- complete with a little head scarf for the eight year old Muslim girl doll

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