Barbies, Beauty & Head-Coverings: How Do Orthodox Train Children for Dress Styles?

[Gxg (G²)]

I have a punjabi suit (basically salwar kameez) because I have punjabi friends at Church and one of them got it for me when she went home. She's determined to get me a sari next time! Here's me dressed 'indian':

the beading is so gorgeous...

Very stylish dress, by the way. Blue suits you

 

[zoebliss]

btw... kyriaki, i just noticed that the cut of the salwar is anarkali style. very long & slightly away from the body. plus the pants are churidar style.... basically skinny pants with shirred bottom. its a very stylish look. oh & you can use the dupatta (scarf) as a head covering if you go to a rocor or slavic parish.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Seriously considering learning how to sew so I can start learning how to make some of the designs you presented.

 

[-Kyriaki-]

wow thats gorgeous! bohut khoobsurat hai meaning very beautiful. yeah what you have on is a special occasion one. i love punjabi styles because the blouses are longer & more flowy. you kinda look like a high caste nepali girl lol. very nice. it suits you a lot.

btw... kyriaki, i just noticed that the cut of the salwar is anarkali style. very long & slightly away from the body. plus the pants are churidar style.... basically skinny pants with shirred bottom. its a very stylish look. oh & you can use the dupatta (scarf) as a head covering if you go to a rocor or slavic parish.

Thankyou! I'm a big fan of punjabi styles too, the girls always look so gorgeous so I begged Rachel (Rajwid) to bring me back a salwar kameez if I gave her my measurements and money. She wouldn't take the money, but got me the suit! The dupatta is EXCELLENT for use as a headcovering (EasyG, that's the scarf hanging across my neck and down my back on both sides made from the same fabric as my sleeves).

Anarkali style is one of my favourites, although Rachel has a more fitted one I forget the name of which is stunning but the kind of thing you have to get made to fit you, or go and try on yourself, neither of which is possible for me, sadly. Churidar style pants gave Rachel the giggles because I didn't have a clue how to put them on - I didn't grow up with indian clothes! She gave them to me on New Year's Eve/Day as a Christmas present, after the All Night Vigil we'd done to celebrate the New Year (we do vespers, compline, matins then liturgy for Vigils - my priest is a monk) and it was about 2am and she was teaching me how to get dressed. Somewhere I have a photo of the two of us together at 2am, I'll have to find it and post it.

That night I had my dupatta done in every style the girls could think of - as it is in the photo, over my head, asymmetrical and so many more. I got dizzy as they demonstrated them all! Next summer I'll wear it to Church a lot.

Easy - usually you'd wear shoes, I just don't wear them at home unless I have to, I grew up barefoot as much as possible and I still do it! It's just a me thing, nothing to do with the style of dress

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Easy - usually you'd wear shoes, I just don't wear them at home unless I have to, I grew up barefoot as much as possible and I still do it! It's just a me thing, nothing to do with the style of dress

Cool to know, as I have some friends who often do the same (although they're American Indian and have often brought that up in regards to why they like to walk barefoot many times).

 

[Gxg (G²)]

The dupatta is EXCELLENT for use as a headcovering (EasyG, that's the scarf hanging across my neck and down my back on both sides made from the same fabric as my sleeves).

Have you ever been told that you don't need to wear the clothing you did or that it didn't fit you? Was wondering since I've been told I that wanting to wear certain things made me look weird...and others thinking I was wearing "skirts" (in mocking humor) when I wore things. Really bothered me....

 

[-Kyriaki-]

Yes to both. I listened in some cases and didn't in others, and ended up with the style I have today. I generally won't dress up entirely in another culture's clothing, but will mix and match it to fit myself. I love Islamic style tunic tops, and wear them with jeans. I wear loose pants or long skirts and tshirts. I wear jeans or a long denim skirt to uni most days, I wear my favourite dress and a chapel veil when I go visit a Russian church.

One problem I have is wearing scarves hijab style - not just over the head and then tossed over each shoulder, but the elaborate pinning especially with an underscarf underneath - it's a symbol of another religion and I think it's disrespectful to wear it, as well as causing issues with people assuming your religion to be different to what it is. But I wear scarves over my head a lot in summer, but pin or drape them in other ways.

It's just about finding a balance, and not going too far in any extreme. It takes practice, but it works. For what it's worth, it's a sunny but wintry day today and I'm at uni. I'm wearing jeans (not skinny jeans though), a long sleeved tshirt with a fitted knit sweater over the top, a bright pink wool coat, pashmina around my neck (dupatta style - one end hanging down the front, the other wrapped around then hanging down my back) and a purple beret, and my hair in a (messy, I need to redo it!) braid hanging down my back. And rainbow socks with my maryjane shoes. It's just a question of what's appropriate for the place (jeans or a denim skirt, usually in winter at uni), weather (layers), and culture (urban Australia). And I'm modestly dressed, too, although in winter that isn't hard!

I look like myself, but I'm not dressed in a way that is alien to everyone around me. No one would give me a second glance, good or bad (unless they liked my coat or something) sitting here and that's not a bad thing, given where I am.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Yes to both. I listened in some cases and didn't in others, and ended up with the style I have today. I generally won't dress up entirely in another culture's clothing, but will mix and match it to fit myself. I love Islamic style tunic tops, and wear them with jeans. I wear loose pants or long skirts and tshirts. I wear jeans or a long denim skirt to uni most days, I wear my favourite dress and a chapel veil when I go visit a Russian church.

One problem I have is wearing scarves hijab style - not just over the head and then tossed over each shoulder, but the elaborate pinning especially with an underscarf underneath - it's a symbol of another religion and I think it's disrespectful to wear it, as well as causing issues with people assuming your religion to be different to what it is. But I wear scarves over my head a lot in summer, but pin or drape them in other ways.

It's just about finding a balance, and not going too far in any extreme. It takes practice, but it works. For what it's worth, it's a sunny but wintry day today and I'm at uni. I'm wearing jeans (not skinny jeans though), a long sleeved tshirt with a fitted knit sweater over the top, a bright pink wool coat, pashmina around my neck (dupatta style - one end hanging down the front, the other wrapped around then hanging down my back) and a purple beret, and my hair in a (messy, I need to redo it!) braid hanging down my back. And rainbow socks with my maryjane shoes. It's just a question of what's appropriate for the place (jeans or a denim skirt, usually in winter at uni), weather (layers), and culture (urban Australia). And I'm modestly dressed, too, although in winter that isn't hard!

I look like myself, but I'm not dressed in a way that is alien to everyone around me. No one would give me a second glance, good or bad (unless they liked my coat or something) sitting here and that's not a bad thing, given where I am.

Feeling that. Finding your own style while not being too noticeable that people get confused on where you're at makes a difference. Still trying to find mine. Just got another Middle Eastern scarf to wear (the kind worn in the military) and liking it....although I wish I could find where Jinco Jeans are still sold.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Toy Story 3 was awesome, and that first part where Ken comes down the elevator in the townhome to show the toys around, and he first lays eyes on Barbie, and the Dream Weaver music starts up. I was laughing so hard when we saw that in the theater.

Sadly, even that imagery that people are used to accepting is seeming like it'll change..for now there's debate on the Ken Dolls sold in department stores being good for sharing on those who are gay, paticularly due to the way they're dressed.

Turns out Mattel, the company that makes the Barbie doll, has a new GAY Ken doll called Palm Beach Sugar Daddy Ken. According to a spokesman for Mattel, quote, "It's a legitimate concept that leaked out . . . We've explored this character, but it's not finalized. The concepts that we're talking about now are for 2010 [and] 2011 . . . But these aren't dolls you'll see at Toys R Us."

It has been available since 2011...and Palm Beach Sugar Daddy Ken comes with his little white dog. Only a matter of time before more are made...


For reference/more info, one can go here
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Seems similar to the Earring Magic Ken introduced by Mattel in 1993 which was controversial enough....for many at that point felt it was a Gay Ken Doll and the line discontinued. For observers quickly noted the resemblance of Earring Magic Ken to a stereotypical gay man, from the purple clothes to the earring to the necklace, which was described as a "chrome [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ring"....and Kitsch-minded gay men bought the doll in record numbers, making Earring Magic Ken the best-selling Ken model in Mattel's history.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earring_Magic_Ken#cite_note-4

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That they tried to bring the concept back is a trip...and I never thought I'd see the day....but truthfully, in light of the many ways they dressed Ken up over the years, should have seen it coming. Some of the outfits did seem to be a bit over the top.
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[ArmyMatt]

Sadly, even that imagery that people are used to accepting is seeming like it'll change..for now there's debate on the Ken Dolls sold in department stores being good for sharing on those who are gay, paticularly due to the way they're dressed.

Turns out Mattel, the company that makes the Barbie doll, has a new GAY Ken doll called Palm Beach Sugar Daddy Ken. According to a spokesman for Mattel, quote, "It's a legitimate concept that leaked out . . . We've explored this character, but it's not finalized. The concepts that we're talking about now are for 2010 [and] 2011 . . . But these aren't dolls you'll see at Toys R Us."​

It has been available since 2011...and Palm Beach Sugar Daddy Ken comes with his little white dog. Only a matter of time before more are made...​

For reference/more info, one can go here​

Seems similar to the Earring Magic Ken introduced by Mattel in 1993 which was controversial enough....for many at that point felt it was a Gay Ken Doll and the line discontinued. For observers quickly noted the resemblance of Earring Magic Ken to a stereotypical gay man, from the purple clothes to the earring to the necklace, which was described as a "chrome [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ring"....and Kitsch-minded gay men bought the doll in record numbers, making Earring Magic Ken the best-selling Ken model in Mattel's history.​

​

That they tried to bring the concept back is a trip...and I never thought I'd see the day....but truthfully, in light of the many ways they dressed Ken up over the years, should have seen it coming. Some of the outfits did seem to be a bit over the top.​

lemme guess, next there will be a post-repeal-of-don't-ask-don't-tell GI Joe. I wish I could roll my eyes enough for this, but I think I'd need to be a giant squid to do so.

oy.

 

[Dorothea]

Sadly, even that imagery that people are used to accepting is seeming like it'll change..for now there's debate on the Ken Dolls sold in department stores being good for sharing on those who are gay, paticularly due to the way they're dressed.

Turns out Mattel, the company that makes the Barbie doll, has a new GAY Ken doll called Palm Beach Sugar Daddy Ken. According to a spokesman for Mattel, quote, "It's a legitimate concept that leaked out . . . We've explored this character, but it's not finalized. The concepts that we're talking about now are for 2010 [and] 2011 . . . But these aren't dolls you'll see at Toys R Us."

It has been available since 2011...and Palm Beach Sugar Daddy Ken comes with his little white dog. Only a matter of time before more are made...


For reference/more info, one can go here
​

​

Seems similar to the Earring Magic Ken introduced by Mattel in 1993 which was controversial enough....for many at that point felt it was a Gay Ken Doll and the line discontinued. For observers quickly noted the resemblance of Earring Magic Ken to a stereotypical gay man, from the purple clothes to the earring to the necklace, which was described as a "chrome [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] ring"....and Kitsch-minded gay men bought the doll in record numbers, making Earring Magic Ken the best-selling Ken model in Mattel's history.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earring_Magic_Ken#cite_note-4

​

​

That they tried to bring the concept back is a trip...and I never thought I'd see the day....but truthfully, in light of the many ways they dressed Ken up over the years, should have seen it coming. Some of the outfits did seem to be a bit over the top.
​

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Oh good grief. I'm sorry but the first doll looks hilarious with his doggie. Apparently, some Ken dolls get the luxury of real type hair. The others just get it painted on. And that first doll has the hair going on. Barbie watch out.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Oh good grief. I'm sorry but the first doll looks hilarious with his doggie.

It was pretty hilarious when I saw it in action myself. I was thinking "seriously??!!" But pretty soon, things may get more flamboyant. Already people were suspicious for ages as to whether or not Ken was gay...but this is eccentric.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

lemme guess, next there will be a post-repeal-of-don't-ask-don't-tell GI Joe. I wish I could roll my eyes enough for this, but I think I'd need to be a giant squid to do so.

oy.

Was there really a "Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell" GI Joe? Had no idea...

 

[Dorothea]

It was pretty hilarious when I saw it in action myself. I was thinking "seriously??!!" But pretty soon, things may get more flamboyant. Already people were suspicious for ages as to whether or not Ken was gay...but this is eccentric.

One day, it'll be the drag queen look.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

One day, it'll be the drag queen look.

Oh my. I really hope not. It's already wild enough...but then again, anything is being used to teach philosophy/worldviews that believers disagree with...so I'd not be suprised if I had to tell my young ones that Drag Queen Barbie is an attempt to get children away from the Bible just as Barbies of differing levels of immodesty have been used to teach young girls the wrong values.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Was there really a "Don't-Ask-Don't-Tell" GI Joe? Had no idea...

nope, at least not that I know of. I imagine there will be one in the works soon enough.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

nope, at least not that I know of. I imagine there will be one in the works soon enough.

That would be a pity...although truthfully, having one wouldn't mean it couldn't be just as tough or militant as the other GI Joe. A lot of people seem to think being gay means one speaks with a lisp or walks a certain way, but some people have been very buff and simply liked people of the same-sex. Not meant to be, of course...but you'd never be able to tell by looking.

 

[ArmyMatt]

That would be a pity...although truthfully, having one wouldn't mean it couldn't be just as tough or militant as the other GI Joe. A lot of people seem to think being gay means one speaks with a lisp or walks a certain way, but some people have been very buff and simply liked people of the same-sex. Not meant to be, of course...but you'd never be able to tell by looking.

yeah, but then he'd be just another GI Joe. I don't think the average, looks like everyone else gay person would push for a gay GI Joe. it would probably be the Jack from Will and Grace walking cliches you see at the head of marches that would lead the fight. at least that's how it seems when you see this stuff on the news.

but I could be wrong.

 

[Gxg (G²)]

yeah, but then he'd be just another GI Joe. I don't think the average, looks like everyone else gay person would push for a gay GI Joe. it would probably be the Jack from Will and Grace walking cliches you see at the head of marches that would lead the fight. at least that's how it seems when you see this stuff on the news.

Good point.

Is it generally those who are more flamboyant/stereotypical in the image of the gay lifestyle who are the most aggressive on such things? Was wondering since some seemed to be more laid back...although at the rallies for gay rights, there are a lot who are really in your face with things.

I do know that even many others supportive of Barbie (as they saw it supporting feminism) happened to be militant/radical feminists (often lesbian or bisexual) and support others trying to get everyone agreeing with gay lifestyles...and I would think they would be supportive of trying to get gay dolls into the industry as well.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Good point.

Is it generally those who are more flamboyant/stereotypical in the image of the gay lifestyle who are the most aggressive on such things? Was wondering since some seemed to be more laid back...although at the rallies for gay rights, there are a lot who are really in your face with things.

I think, and I could be wrong, but the more flamboyant woulda been the ones more picked on and bullied probably. so they are a little more aggressive when they have the mic.