Autism and Vaccines Researcher for CDC, Indicted for Fraud and Money-Laundering

GodbetheGlory

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Just to remove the clutter from this discussion. I'll agree to accept your premise that MMR causes autism and allergies and anything else you want it to. The fact remains that 100's of millions of people are alive due to MMR. With MMR, some people get autism, and alleriges and their life. Without they get death. I thought christians chose life?


There's no evidence the MMR vaccine is saving lives. Measles deaths were very rare a few years prior to the measles vaccine (1968). We also don't see healthy non-vaccinated kids in first world nations dying from measles.
A kid has a great chance of dying, or having serious complications from the MMR vaccine then a healthy nonvaccinated kid does of dying from measles.


In UK, from 1998 to 2007 (as of 24th November), there were 28,364 cases of measles.
Out of the 12 deaths from 1998 - 2007, one is known not to be measles, one is provisional, 2 were immunodeficient children within the age where vaccines are administered, and the other 8 were older deaths resulting from infections contracted prior to 1967. From the years of 1998 – 2007, the risk of any unimmunized child dying from ACUTE measles was as follows:
immunodeficient children = one per 14,182 cases of measles; healthy normal children = 0 out of 28,364.
Any suggestion that in 2008, the risk of any child dying of acute measles is 1 in 2,000 is another fictional statistical manipulation, in the same vein as: “in order for the risk/benefit equation to be tipped in favour of leaving children unvaccinated against MMR, there would need to have been more than 7500 deaths from MMR in the last 10 years.” -----Hilary Butler [Letters BMJ Becoming Ben Oct 2008]

A heathy unvaccinated child in a first world nation like the UK or USA is not going to die from measles. Yet kids do die from the MMR vaccine.
 
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Lion Hearted Man

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There's no evidence the MMR vaccine is saving lives. Measles deaths were very rare a few years prior to the measles vaccine (1968). We also don't see healthy non-vaccinated kids in first world nations dying from measles.
A kid has a great chance of dying, or having serious complications from the MMR vaccine then a healthy nonvaccinated kid does of dying from measles.


In UK, from 1998 to 2007 (as of 24th November), there were 28,364 cases of measles.
Out of the 12 deaths from 1998 - 2007, one is known not to be measles, one is provisional, 2 were immunodeficient children within the age where vaccines are administered, and the other 8 were older deaths resulting from infections contracted prior to 1967. From the years of 1998 – 2007, the risk of any unimmunized child dying from ACUTE measles was as follows:
immunodeficient children = one per 14,182 cases of measles; healthy normal children = 0 out of 28,364.
Any suggestion that in 2008, the risk of any child dying of acute measles is 1 in 2,000 is another fictional statistical manipulation, in the same vein as: “in order for the risk/benefit equation to be tipped in favour of leaving children unvaccinated against MMR, there would need to have been more than 7500 deaths from MMR in the last 10 years.” -----Hilary Butler [Letters BMJ Becoming Ben Oct 2008]

A heathy unvaccinated child in a first world nation like the UK or USA is not going to die from measles. Yet kids do die from the MMR vaccine.

All you do is shut your ears and go "la-la-la". Please stop posting links from whale.to - it's a fraudulent site.
 
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M

MattRose

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There's no evidence the MMR vaccine is saving lives. Measles deaths were very rare a few years prior to the measles vaccine (1968). We also don't see healthy non-vaccinated kids in first world nations dying from measles.
A kid has a great chance of dying, or having serious complications from the MMR vaccine then a healthy nonvaccinated kid does of dying from measles.
Here I seem to have found evidence that the MMR vaccine is saving lives. In fact, I'll see your spurious link and raise you one from the WHO.
Key facts

  • Measles is one of the leading causes of death among young children even though a safe and cost-effective vaccine is available.
  • In 2008, there were 164 000 measles deaths globally – nearly 450 deaths every day or 18 deaths every hour.
  • More than 95% of measles deaths occur in low-income countries with weak health infrastructures.
  • Measles vaccination resulted in a 78% drop in measles deaths between 2000 and 2008 worldwide.
  • In 2008, about 83% of the world's children received one dose of measles vaccine by their first birthday through routine health services – up from 72% in 2000.
  • WHO | Measles
Now, of course, the World Health Organization is run by commie, liberal, atheists whose favorite TV show is "South Park", but hear them out.

Also there is a site called WickedPedaphile or something like that. It says this:
Before the widespread use of a vaccine against measles, its incidence was so high that infection with measles was felt to be "as inevitable as death and taxes."[6] Today, the incidence of measles has fallen to less than 1% of people under the age of 30 in countries with routine childhood vaccination.[citation needed] In the United States, reported cases of measles in the United States fell from hundreds of thousands to tens of thousands per year following introduction of the vaccine in 1963. Increasing uptake of the vaccine following outbreaks in 1971 and 1977 brought this down to thousands of cases per year in the 1980s. An outbreak of almost 30,000 cases in 1990 led to a renewed push for vaccination and the addition of a second vaccine to the recommended schedule. Fewer than 200 cases have been reported each year since 1997, and the disease is no longer considered endemic.[7][8][9]
The benefit of measles vaccination in preventing illness, disability, and death has been well documented. The first 20 years of licensed measles vaccination in the U.S. prevented an estimated 52 million cases of the disease, 17,400 cases of mental retardation, and 5,200 deaths.[10] During 1999–2004, a strategy led by the World Health Organization and UNICEF led to improvements in measles vaccination coverage that averted an estimated 1.4 million measles deaths worldwide.[11]
Measles is endemic worldwide. Although it was declared eliminated from the U.S. in 2000, high rates of vaccination and good communication with persons who refuse vaccination is needed to prevent outbreaks and sustain the elimination of measles in the U.S.[12] Of the 66 cases of measles reported in the U.S. in 2005, slightly over half were attributable to one unvaccinated individual who acquired measles during a visit to Romania.[13] This individual returned to a community with many unvaccinated children. The resulting outbreak infected 34 people, mostly children and virtually all unvaccinated; 9% were hospitalized, and the cost of containing the outbreak was estimated at $167,685. A major epidemic was averted due to high rates of vaccination in the surrounding communities.[12]

You notice what I highlighted there? One unvaccinated person infected 34 people and 9% had to be hospitalized. So you want to stop the MMR vaccine for all do ya? Mao killed over 10 million... you going for the record?

You hit the nail on the head when you said that measles in the UK are rare and they cause few deaths. Of course, that is a result of the MMR vaccine.
 
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GodbetheGlory

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To the above post:
You're showing figures from poor third world nations were people are malnourished and living in unsanitary conditions. These kids are also dying from Malaria and the common cold virus. You're just trying to be deceptive.
Fact is healthy nonvaccinated kids aren't dying from measles (even in the rare chance they get it). But vaccinated kids are dying and having major side effects from the MMR vaccine.

More facts:
Pre-Vaccinations[SIZE=-1] - What happened before vaccinations[/SIZE]

  • FACT : In 1900 there were 13.3 measles deaths per 100,000 population. By 1955, the death rate was 0.03 deaths per 100,000, a decline of 97.7%, eight years before the first measles shot. </I>5 The death rate from measles in the mid-1970&#8217;s (post-vaccine) remained exactly the same as in the early 1960&#8217;s (pre-vaccine). </I>6
  • FACT : In the United States and England, between 1915 and 1958, there was a 95% decline in the measles death rate. </I>7
  • FACT : Before the vaccine was introduced, it was extremely rare for an infant to contract measles. However, by 1993 more than 25% of all measles cases were occurring in babies under one year old. CDC (Centre for Disease Control) officials attribute it to the growing number of mothers who were vaccinated during the 1960&#8217;s, &#8216;70&#8217;s, and &#8216;80&#8217;s. (When natural immunity is denied, measles protection cannot be passed onto their babies.) </I>8

With Vaccinations[SIZE=-1] - The non-efficacy of vaccinations[/SIZE]

  • FACT : In the U.S.A. the measles vaccine has been available since 1957 and the triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) has been available since 1975. In spite of all this, from 1983 to 1990 there has been a 423% increase in the number of measles cases. </I>9
  • FACT : In 1985 the American government reported that 80% of notified cases of measles had been vaccinated. </I>10 In 1986 there was a measles epidemic at Corpus Christi, Texas, in which 99% of the children affected had been vaccinated against measles, and over 95% were supposedly immune. </I>11
  • FACT : According to Dr. Atkinson of the CDC, "measles transmissions has been clearly documented among vaccinated persons. In some large outbreaks...over 95% of cases have a history of vaccination..." </I>12
  • FACT : According to a study by the World Health Organisation (W.H.O.), those vaccinated against measles are 14 times more likely to contract the disease than those left unvaccinated. </I>13

Effects of Vaccinations

  • FACT : Serious nervous system and other reactions to measles vaccine have been repeatedly reported in medical literature. The measles vaccine may cause ataxia (inability to co-ordinate muscle movements), learning disability, retardation, encephalitis, retinopathy, blindness, aseptic meningitis, seizure disorders, paralysis and death. Other researchers have investigated it as a possible cause of or co-factor for multiple sclerosis, Reye&#8217;s Syndrome, Guillain-Barre syndrome, blood clotting disorders, and juvenile-onset diabetes. </I>14
  • FACT : During measles, the body literally &#8216;burns&#8217; up the cells containing the invading virus. This incineration takes place at the site of the spots or rash, which measles is known for. If this is stopped, as by a vaccination, then the virus survives and lives on in the body, only to cause havoc later on. A high proportion of individuals who had the vaccination were found in adult life to have developed cervical cancer, skin cancers and multiple sclerosis. </I>15

Bad Medicine[SIZE=-1] - The power of drug companies[/SIZE]

  • FACT : GP&#8217;s have financial incentives to vaccinate the children within their practice.
Vaccination Liberation Information
 
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Gishin

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1st Reference: Neil Z. Miller, Psychologist and strong believer in Esoteric cosmology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Crackpot
2nd Reference: Randall Neustaedter, homeopathic acupuncturist. Quack.
3rd Reference: Leon Chaitow, Naturopath with a website Leon Chaitow - Complementary health care . Quack
4th Reference: Trevor Gunn... economist? And director of relations at Medtronics, but doesn't seem to have any medical background whatsoever. Irrelevant.
5th Reference: Robert S. Mendelsohn, MD who seemed to hate the medical industry in general, hating pediatric practice, obstetric orthodoxy and the effect of the preponderance of male obstetricians, and vaccines. He also opposed water fluoridation, bypass surgery, licensing of nutritionistshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nutritionist, and the routine use of X-rays. Hated medicine in general it seems.
6th Reference: Misleading in how it reads the evidence, only quoting the portion that seems to agree with anti-vaccine morons. Read this for proper data. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC172858/pdf/080260.pdf
7th Reference: More mishandling of statistics, beyond dishonest at this point.

And the rest of references stop mentioning people by name and just point to the journal or statistic, which I'm not going to bother tracking down. Once again, your copy-pasta job you did GBTG fails to impress, and once again I have to wonder if you really believe all this or if you just like telling us lies.
 
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GodbetheGlory

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If you know parents of never-vaccinated kids or someone who was not vaccinated (in a 1st world nation) you're here and see how much healthier they are then their vaccinated peer. Things like:

"Robt. & Michelle Ford (4)
Culver City CA
MichelleMaher@allstate.com
&#8230;.eldest was completely vaccinated and the youngest 3 have never had any vaccines.
&#8230;eldest endured severe ear infections, has ongoing allergies, bronchial-issues and tends to heal very slowly from EVERY mild cold, flu, etc. The youngest 3 children recover within 12-48 hours from whatever they may catch, which is rare."

"My daughter is a 2nd generation unvaccinated child and healthier (and MUCH brighter) than any child I have met her age. I have also never been vaccinated along with my 3 sisters.
I live in Ortonville, MI with my daughter and my husband and my sisters are in Hershey and State College, PA"

"My twin daughters are now 16 and still have never had an anti-biotic or a vaccine and are healthier than ever. Their entire youth theater group is sick with coughs, sniffles and sore throats. Mine had symptoms for 12 hours. And they are gone. Immune systems through the roof! I&#8217;m so happy that we decided on this years ago through Dr. Mendellson&#8217;s book and then through yours to reiterate what we were sure of. Thanks!"
Parents of Unvaccinated Children | The Doctor Within

"Please add to list of unvaccinated children. My child will be 10 years old next month and has never ever had colic ear infections fevers and a host of other problems that vaccinated children endure."


Why do you think so many parents are refusing vaccines? Because they don't care about their child? No, its because they want their kids to be healthy.

At least more educated moms are aware of this:
http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/More-Educated-Mothers-Are-Less-Likely-To-Vaccinate
 
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realtruth101

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I do realize Drug companies would make more money off treating and disease then preventing it. Thats why also no research goes into nutrition and preventative health. All almost all the funding goes into treatments.
This is also why Drug companies push vaccines so much. Once a kid is fully vaccinated they'll be a customer for life. Allergies, ADD, ADHD, Cancer, Diabites, Asthma, Autism, weakened immune system to name a few. Fully vaccinated kids are sick all the time, get more antibiotics and other meds. The unvaccinated kids I've seen are all pretty healthy and don't make very good drug customers.

You can deny all these problems arent caused by vaccines but then what are they caused by? They weren't around much (if at all) 100+ years ago so they're clearly caused by environmental factors. So tell me 'old wise one' what might those factors be?
(most doctors just don't seem to have an answer for them. Maybe that's because all the research money is going to get new drugs and the market and trying to prove the drugs don't cause these problems.)
Very good point! unvaccinated people tend to stay away from medications that only treat symptoms, and never treat the cause, thus they're not very good custumers for the massive amounts of medications being pushed on the general public daily. I'm not against medicine, I'm just against a severly one sided approach to healing a person through lifelong medications that only work as a maintinence program against ailments, and not as a way to cure and get someone off medication. certainly some medicines for maintaining someones well being are necessary but even curable ailments are now maintained with life long medications
 
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It's because they're fooled by liars.

And by people who know next to nothing about anything medical related.

A vaccine works because it injects a dead or weakened pathogen into the body, triggering an immune response. The antigens on the surface of the pathogen are destroyed by specific antibodies, and memory cells, which last in the body for years, help to quash an infection at a very fast rate when someone becomes genuinely infected by the pathogen (secondary immune response).

It's perfectly possible that someone like me, who has been vaccinated with the MMR jab, has had the measles pathogen in my body- yet the memory cells divide at such a rapid rate, the pathogen is destroyed before I even know it.

Of course, due to antigenic variability (in pathogens like the common cold), or mutations, vaccinations are not always 100% effective. But anyone with a decent background in biological sciences knows that the smartest people vaccinate their kids against nasty diseases, because seeing their kids die at young age from some preventable disease is not what any parent wants.
 
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realtruth101

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And by people who know next to nothing about anything medical related.

A vaccine works because it injects a dead or weakened pathogen into the body, triggering an immune response. The antigens on the surface of the pathogen are destroyed by specific antibodies, and memory cells, which last in the body for years, help to quash an infection at a very fast rate when someone becomes genuinely infected by the pathogen (secondary immune response).

It's perfectly possible that someone like me, who has been vaccinated with the MMR jab, has had the measles pathogen in my body- yet the memory cells divide at such a rapid rate, the pathogen is destroyed before I even know it.

Of course, due to antigenic variability (in pathogens like the common cold), or mutations, vaccinations are not always 100% effective. But anyone with a decent background in biological sciences knows that the smartest people vaccinate their kids against nasty diseases, because seeing their kids die at young age from some preventable disease is not what any parent wants.
yes! Its much more intelligent to vaccinate against those nasty treatable diseases, and as a result aquire life long incurable and untreatable ones, thats a good trade off! .......now you can continue to belittle and berate those who through careful study, realize the medical world isn't all that you think it is, and not everything you have been taught is the gods to honest truth, even though you believe it is and regard those who don't as ignorant
 
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Lion Hearted Man

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Very good point! unvaccinated people tend to stay away from medications that only treat symptoms, and never treat the cause, thus they're not very good custumers for the massive amounts of medications being pushed on the general public daily. I'm not against medicine, I'm just against a severly one sided approach to healing a person through lifelong medications that only work as a maintinence program against ailments, and not as a way to cure and get someone off medication. certainly some medicines for maintaining someones well being are necessary but even curable ailments are now maintained with life long medications

Some diseases you can only treat the symptoms or try to slow the progression. Congestive heart failure, hypertension, kidney failure, atherosclerosis, coronary artery disease, etc. Those diseases will kill you if you do not take medications from them. We really don't have any other established options right now for these diseases. So it's a bit unfair to rail against medicine for "treating only symptoms" for some diseases.

Other diseases have better options. Bacterial infections can be cured with antibiotics. Viral infections are very difficult to cure pharmacologically. Vaccines are the desired therapeutic for viruses because there are so few good treatments. If you can prevent it, that's great.

yes! Its much more intelligent to vaccinate against those nasty treatable diseases, and as a result aquire life long incurable and untreatable ones, thats a good trade off! .......now you can continue to belittle and berate those who through careful study, realize the medical world isn't all that you think it is, and not everything you have been taught is the gods to honest truth, even though you believe it is and regard those who don't as ignorant

1. Vaccines have not been strongly linked to any chronic diseases like cancer, autoimmune disorders, autism, etc.

2. Viral infections are not very treatable by nature. Cells infected with viruses will die - there is no salvaging them. The best your body can do is to carpet bomb the infected tissue and clear it out. We don't have any good drugs that can fight viruses that aren't immune system stimulants. Most of the time the virus has already done the damage when it is clinically apparent, and the clinical signs are largely from the inflammatory process.

But vaccines offer prevention of the disease, which is far more preferable than the alternative. Especially with pediatric viral infections which are heart-breakingly brutal to kids. Vaccines offer your body the ability to block the entry of viruses into cells, and to limit their spread. This is something we cannot do when someone gets the disease itself.

There are also vaccines against the very pathogenic strains of bacteria that have high morbidity and mortality. Sure, we could probably treat the people who come down with these infections, but why would we want to do that if we can prevent it? We save a lot of time and money with prevention.

And a lot of bacterial vaccines are vaccines against a toxin (diptheria, tetanus, cholera), which carries the same rationale as the viruses - the vaccine blocks the toxin from entering or killing cells. If you wait to treat someone with these diseases, it may be too late because the toxin is already in the system.

But let me repeat it once more: Measles, mumps, rubella, and most other viruses have no effective treatments for those who are infected. The most effective way to reduce the morbidity of these diseases is to prevent them.

(The exceptions for treatments include HIV and Hepatitis C, which are viruses we don't have vaccines against. Through pouring millions into HIV research, we've managed to suppress it but not cure it; Hepatitis C sometimes can be defeated by high doses of interferon)
 
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Gishin

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yes! Its much more intelligent to vaccinate against those nasty treatable diseases, and as a result aquire life long incurable and untreatable ones, thats a good trade off! .......now you can continue to belittle and berate those who through careful study, realize the medical world isn't all that you think it is, and not everything you have been taught is the gods to honest truth, even though you believe it is and regard those who don't as ignorant
It's not my fault if they're ignorant.
 
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GodbetheGlory

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Godbetheglory don't you think that the CDC and WHO are more reliable than the sources you list? If not please explain why?


Many members of the CDC, FDA, WHO, etc have huge finical incentives to promote vaccines and other drugs. Many of them hold stock in these drug companies as well as receiving other forms of payment. Have you ever heard of the revolving door of politics? Once someone moves up to a high position in the CDC, WHO, etc, making a nice Six figure salary they then get “promoted” to work for a drug company in which they now get paid a Seven figure salary (If you’d like me to name some names I can).


“Dr. John Modlin--He served for four years on the CDC advisory committee and became the Chair in February 1998. He participated in the FDA’s committee as well owned stock in Merck, one of the largest manufacturers of vaccines, valued at $26,000. He also serves on Merck’s Immunization Advisory Board. Dr. Modlin was the Chairman of the Rotavirus working group.”

“Dr. Paul Offit disclosed that he holds a patent on a rotavirus vaccine and receives grant money from Merck to develop this vaccine. He also disclosed that he is paid by the pharmaceutical industry to travel around the country and teach doctors that vaccines are safe. Dr. Offit is a member of the CDC’s advisory committee”

“Dr. Patricia Ferrieri, during her tenure as Chair of the FDA’s advisory committee, owned stock in Merck valued at $20,000 and was granted a full waiver.”

“Dr. Neal Halsey, who serves as a liaison member to the CDC committee on behalf of the American Association of Pediatrics, and as a consultant to the FDA’s committee, has extensive ties to the pharmaceutical industry”

“Dr. Harry Greenberg, who serves as Chair of the FDA committee, owns $120,000 of stock in Aviron, a vaccine manufacturer. He also is a paid member of the board of advisors of Chiron, another vaccine manufacturer and owns $40,000 of stock. This stock ownership was deemed not to be a conflict and a waiver was granted”
FDA Conflicts of Interest

You can do a search online and find more.
 
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GodbetheGlory

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Of course, due to antigenic variability (in pathogens like the common cold), or mutations, vaccinations are not always 100% effective. But anyone with a decent background in biological sciences knows that the smartest people vaccinate their kids against nasty diseases, because seeing their kids die at young age from some preventable disease is not what any parent wants.

But non-vaccinated kids arent dying of diseases. In the rare chance a healthy never vaccinated gets measles, whooping cough, chicken pox, etc they're not dying. And vaccinated kids get these diseases too (and usually have a much worse time with them).
Ask any parent of a nonvaccinated kid and they'll tell you their child is much healthier then there vaccinated peers.
You act as if vaccinated kids dont get sick, but they do, a lot. Plus they have high rates of allergies, asthma, behavior problems, etc.
The fact is the smartest parents are actually the ones least likely to vaccinate (I posted that link on the previous page).
 
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Psudopod

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But non-vaccinated kids arent dying of diseases. In the rare chance a healthy never vaccinated gets measles, whooping cough, chicken pox, etc they're not dying.

Yes they are. In countries where measles, whooping cough etc are endemic, they are dying. The reason they are not dying in this country is the diseases are not endemic.

And vaccinated kids get these diseases too (and usually have a much worse time with them).

Evidence?

Ask any parent of a nonvaccinated kid and they'll tell you their child is much healthier then there vaccinated peers.

Because parents have massive blinkers when it comes to their children. And if you have made a decision that goes against all medical recommendation of course you are going to constantly reassure yourself that you have made the right decision.

You act as if vaccinated kids dont get sick, but they do, a lot. Plus they have high rates of allergies, asthma, behavior problems, etc.

Evidence of this?
 
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GodbetheGlory

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Yes they are. In countries where measles, whooping cough etc are endemic, they are dying. The reason they are not dying in this country is the diseases are not endemic.

In Third world countries where people are malnourished and living in unsanitary conditions where they also die of malaria, cholera, and a cold virus. Give them good health (nutrition and a clean living environment) and they won’t be dying of these diseases anymore.
 
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Psudopod

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In Third world countries where people are malnourished and living in unsanitary conditions where they also die of malaria, cholera, and a cold virus. Give them good health (nutrition and a clean living environment) and they won&#8217;t be dying of these diseases anymore.


Plenty of foreign travellers who contract malaria die, even though they have come from western contries. And you seem to have a very negative outlook on third world countries. While conditions are generally lower, not everyone living outside of the west is starving in a mud hut.

I see you've put no further evidence to justify the rest of your claims, nor have you ever addressed the difference between mortality and morbitity.
 
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realtruth101

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But non-vaccinated kids arent dying of diseases. In the rare chance a healthy never vaccinated gets measles, whooping cough, chicken pox, etc they're not dying. And vaccinated kids get these diseases too (and usually have a much worse time with them).
Ask any parent of a nonvaccinated kid and they'll tell you their child is much healthier then there vaccinated peers.
You act as if vaccinated kids dont get sick, but they do, a lot. Plus they have high rates of allergies, asthma, behavior problems, etc.
The fact is the smartest parents are actually the ones least likely to vaccinate (I posted that link on the previous page).[/quot I can vouch for that! our son was born at about the same time as several friends of our kids and he hasn't suffered with all the other ailments our friends kids are going through, ear aches, sore throats, and what doctors told our friends having tubes put in their sons ears is very common, (IT IS?) just the general health of our friends kids has been a nightmere, everytime we turn around this ones having this done, this one needs to go on this medication, and colds are a weekly thing, every week one of them is suffering from a cold. If our son gets the mumps or chicken pox we will deal with it, healthy children very rarely have complications getting through many of these diseases, although I have to say I'll take a few weeks of sickness over a life long regiment of medications and life long debilitating disease. At least as long as I have a choice! as the government is getting more and more powerful to make your healthcare decisions for you.
 
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