Australian Christian Values Checklist - 2007 Federal Election

[Anduril]

 

[Anduril]

Thought this might be of some interest with an election coming up soon. A list of supporting statements can be found in the following document:

http://www.christianvalues.org.au/Supporting_statements_for_CVC_2007.pdf

 

[ScMay]

Wow, looks like I'm voting Democrats! Thx for the post

 

[norbie]

Typicall example: prayers in parliament.
it's all lip-service, does the true Christian Church more damage then good.
Howard &. Co they are all 'so good Christian' - but their decision making is all against Jesus teaching.

 

[misfitforfaith]

In my humble opinion religion and politics are like oil and water it does more than good and has no place in politics.
I strongly disagree with this crap that Christianity must be definition be conservative or rightwing to me this indicates how much those with money and power manipulate religion.
They also fail to understand that christ was like revolutionary of his age not a pharisee.
And given that christ and is disciples were single men very communal minded men like monks devoted to chastity and sharing all goods in common, i wonder how this fits in with the family values platforms of most contemporary churches and their strong emphasis on this.
One more thing after the recent inappropriate content charge against an FF MP i hardly think any so called christian political party is in a position to turn Australia into a theocracy!.

 

[Neenie1]

Well I guess it's up to you who you want to vote for.


I am grateful for this information, thanks Anduril.


However from now on I refuse to engage in any type of debate about Christianity in parliament. I personally think it's a good idea and know and accept that not everyone feels that way.

But I guess it's up to everyone to make sure they are informed on the day and vote the way they want to.




Would someone be able to enlighten me on what exactly no. 5 means. I am a bit clueless to what that means in practicality?

 

[lmnop9876]

Prayers to open Parliament each day:

I am surprised that fundamentalists offer this as a Christian value. Australia is not a Christian nation, but rather a secular democracy, so the prayers that would be offered would have to cover all religions, and surely making such a compromise is more detrimental than not having prayers at all, and instead leaving it up to each politician to exercise their own private faith in seeking God's wisdom?

Teach Australia's Christian heritage and history in all schools.

In other words, teach a whitewashed view of Australian history, that makes out as though missionaries and the effect of the Christian Church on Australian history and the Australian nation have been all positive. Surely "truth" is a Christian value?

Promotion and support of marriage over de-facto cohabitation

I'm not sure what to make of this one. Australia is not a Christian nation, and not even all Christians agree on this one, so surely we can't enforce this value on everyone. that said, I do think that marriage is important and desirable, and there should be additional financial and other benefits that result from being a married couple (or a long-term (and by that i don't mean a year or two) de-facto couple ).

Provide free pre-marriage education/voucher for couples

This is a bizarre thing to call a Christian value. I haven't yet seen the commandment in the Bible: "Thou shalt attend pre-marriage counselling." Is it a good thing? undoubtedly. Is it a Christian value? not necessarily.

Income splitting for married couples with dependent children

Again, how is this a Christian value? Are my values non-Christian if I don't support this?

Family impact statement tabled publicly in Parliament before vote

A Christian value? No. A good thing? yes.

Keep our freedom, oppose a Bill or Charter of Rights

How can this possibly be construed as a Christian value? surely recognising the equal rights of all is a good and Christian thing to do?

Preserve free speech. Oppose religious/sexuality vilification laws.

Surely every person has the right to be protected from public vilification? Again, how can this possibly be construed as a Christian value? I am sure there are many Australian Christians who would support such anti-vilification laws.

Support greater care of God's environment

And then gives the Liberals a tick? I suppose what "greater" means is all subjective
&c. &c. &c.

Yet I see not one mention of ending world poverty, working towards world peace, supporting free health and education, particularly for those of low socio-economic status to try and break the poverty cycle and increase the health of the less fortunate members of our society, reducing taxes on the poor, increasing foreign aid, recognising Australia's Indigenous peoples, &c. &c. &c.

I'm sorry, but I consider my own values Christian, and I would not regard this list as being anywhere near representative of them.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

I notice there's nothing on poverty on that list - of that 64% how many are actually Christians? Or is it the old, my grandparents go to church once a year, I'm a Christian

 

[Neenie1]

pjw, I would say that pre-marriage counselling may not necessarily be mentioned in the Bible but if it is going to help married couples stay together in the long run (or even if after going through the counselling they decide not to get married perhaps) then that has to be a good thing.



I know that my pastor would not marry us until we had counselling, so we had some. No biggie.

 

[Monarchist]

Christianity and Politics do mix. I am a Christian in this country and I have a right to vote, and I will vote for a party that reflects my beliefs.
Christians for to long have been taught that we dont have a voice. That we shouldnt force our values on others This is a chance for the whole country to hear our voice. Rather than have there amoral values foisted upon us, by selfish politicians more interested in the popularity than whats right.
Australia is not a Christian country cos we dont care enough.

 

[emmanemena]

Thanks for this thread, I don't really know where to look for this kind of stuff. Helps me see the answers to the issues the politicians don't like to spend time talking about.

 

[Anduril]

I notice there's nothing on poverty on that list - of that 64% how many are actually Christians? Or is it the old, my grandparents go to church once a year, I'm a Christian

I think the reason poverty is not on the list is because it's obvious all parties are against poverty and there are different views on how best to tackle it.

Another page from their site seems to acknowledge it's importance among other issues:

"With many issues, such as taxation, welfare

(the poor), overseas aid, immigration; issues
rightly seen as important by most Christians -
there is, in fact, little real difference between
the major parties because they know there is
a good possibility that they will have to act​

responsibly on those issues."
http://www.christianvalues.org.au/Supporting_statements-Brief_-_single_pg__1_.pdf

As far as the 64% goes I imagine quite a few of those would not be saved Christians, but that will be for God to judge.

 

[GodsoldierClintus]

Been a volunteer in The Oaktree Foundation and the Salvation Army I'd have to disagree that there is very little difference in the major party policies. There are vast differences between Labor and the Liberals alone, let alone the other parties.

 

[Anduril]

Typicall example: prayers in parliament.
it's all lip-service, does the true Christian Church more damage then good.

I don't see how it does any harm. It's a great tradition that asks for God's blessing before making decisions that affect the lives of many people, and reminds politicians that they have a higher authority to answer to.

Howard &. Co they are all 'so good Christian' - but their decision making is all against Jesus teaching.

All the more reason to keep prayers in parliament!

 

[misfitforfaith]

Christianity and Politics do mix. I am a Christian in this country and I have a right to vote, and I will vote for a party that reflects my beliefs.
Christians for to long have been taught that we don't have a voice.

Monarchist
That post was directed at me right! Those that would want christian political party in power are moving into dangerous territory. I mean the western world expects Muslims for example to keep their religion out of politics and infact is the west not fighting a so called "war on terror" for that very reason.
Yet you think it would be just fine for christians to a have some kind of theocracy hmm very double standards indeed not the kind of thing that would give any western nation a leg to stand when dealing with Islam. And none of these parties have anything to offer lower class people or disadvantage people of which iam probly one they cater to business types very middle policies for a very upwardly mobile AOG movement no doubt they would be happy to direct all there policies to the coalition without reservation which is what they are based around after all they are in the pockets of people like Pastor Houston!.
CDP or FF have about as much chance of getting near political power as the dems or greens have which is pretty much a fat chance. The best they can muster is right wing version of the dems trying balance power via lobbying and preference deals with the conservatives which what they already do. You can wish or you want for theocracy in Australia mate but hell would have to freeze over first. I would also like to add that many of those you consider christian leaders or politicians don't have have crystal clean lives themselves.

I mean President GWB is christian politician and kills several hundred iraqis every week. I would also like to add that i am obviously fairly new posting here so i hope this wont be too heavy for this simple naive forum however i have read many sources on conspiracy,paranormal and occult it seems some of your favored christian fundie leaders have been leading double lives worshiping no other than Lucifer himself and i can prove it! I will post links from net later if you wish.

 

[Anduril]

Monarchist
That post was directed at me right! Those that would want christian political party in power are moving into dangerous territory.

I have never heard of anyone wanting a Christian political party in power. The idea is absurd due to our two-party system. Sounds like you are making a strawman here.

However the Senate does and should have minor parties as it is a house of review. These minor parties can have considerable power if the Government does not hold a clear majority. Therefore it is important that these minor parties have balanced and sensible policies that are in the best interest of the Australian people. For example having the balance of power held by the Greens would be dangerous as their policies are rather extreme.

I mean the western world expects Muslims for example to keep their religion out of politics and infact is the west not fighting a so called "war on terror" for that very reason.

No the west is fighting the war on terror to defeat terrorism. There are Islamic governments around the world that are allied with western countries and are also fighting the war on terror.

Yet you think it would be just fine for christians to a have some kind of theocracy hmm very double standards indeed not the kind of thing that would give any western nation a leg to stand when dealing with Islam.

Another strawman. No one here has expressed any sort of desire for a theocracy.

And none of these parties have anything to offer lower class people or disadvantage people of which iam probly one they cater to business types very middle policies for a very upwardly mobile AOG movement no doubt they would be happy to direct all there policies to the coalition without reservation which is what they are based around after all they are in the pockets of people like Pastor Houston!.

A strong economy with low unemployment is widely regarded as the best thing to offer "lower class people or disadvantaged people", allowing those who want to work find a job. However incentives do need to exist for people on all income levels to increase productivity and add to economic growth.

CDP or FF have about as much chance of getting near political power as the dems or greens have which is pretty much a fat chance. The best they can muster is right wing version of the dems trying balance power via lobbying and preference deals with the conservatives which what they already do.

Just like the Greens preference deals with Labor?

You can wish or you want for theocracy in Australia mate but hell would have to freeze over first. I would also like to add that many of those you consider christian leaders or politicians don't have have crystal clean lives themselves.

Theres that T word again.

I mean President GWB is christian politician and kills several hundred iraqis every week. I would also like to add that i am obviously fairly new posting here so i hope this wont be too heavy for this simple naive forum

A "simple naive forum". Nice one.

however i have read many sources on conspiracy,paranormal and occult it seems some of your favored christian fundie leaders have been leading double lives worshiping no other than Lucifer himself and i can prove it! I will post links from net later if you wish.

I would recommend that you go easy on the kooky conspiracy theory books. I mean devil worshipping politicians? Pull the other one.

 

[ScMay]

I would also like to add that i am obviously fairly new posting here so i hope this wont be too heavy for this simple naive forum

Over generalisation, innacurate one at that. Perhaps you just haven't been looking at the right threads or right areas of the forums. Are you implying that everyone here is simple and niave by extension because I don't know how else to interpret what you said.

however i have read many sources on conspiracy,paranormal and occult

*Groans* in my experience a reliable source on conspiracy, paranormal or occult is an oxymoron. I'd like your links since I want to test my predictive abilities (I predict they will be poorly referenced, poorly argued sites by random nobodies who think they are important because they have a random idea and a website...)

it seems some of your favored christian fundie leaders have been leading double lives worshiping no other than Lucifer himself and i can prove it!

*Groans again* While you're at it could you prove the moon-landing hoax, elvis still lives, Roswell, 9/11 was done by the CIA, etc, etc....

On the topic of chrisiian parties, what is it with some (I am fully aware it is not all or even most) chrisitans and their desire to enforce their religious views on others. Particularly when that view means restriciting someones rights for no other reason than the bible says its bad (i.e. it doesn't affect anyone else, kind of like if an islamic country banned anyone from eating pork). It just seems weird.

 

[Monarchist]

Over generalisation, innacurate one at that. Perhaps you just haven't been looking at the right threads or right areas of the forums. Are you implying that everyone here is simple and niave by extension because I don't know how else to interpret what you said.
*Groans* in my experience a reliable source on conspiracy, paranormal or occult is an oxymoron. I'd like your links since I want to test my predictive abilities (I predict they will be poorly referenced, poorly argued sites by random nobodies who think they are important because they have a random idea and a website...)
*Groans again* While you're at it could you prove the moon-landing hoax, elvis still lives, Roswell, 9/11 was done by the CIA, etc, etc....

On the topic of chrisiian parties, what is it with some (I am fully aware it is not all or even most) chrisitans and their desire to enforce their religious views on others. Particularly when that view means restriciting someones rights for no other reason than the bible says its bad (i.e. it doesn't affect anyone else, kind of like if an islamic country banned anyone from eating pork). It just seems weird.

You are not all there are you mate?
Everybody has a free will to do as they choose. That is a God given right, we as Christians know and understand that right.
We have that right too, to make this country as accommodating to our beliefs as you do to yours. Not tricky is it.
If that is what we want to vote for, why cant we?
Try comprehend this. Everybody's rights are restricted to accommodate the acceptable public view.
Why do you atheists inflict your morals here on us. Getting sick of your sooking about my views.
Why are Homosexuals forcing there views on me.
Enough already.

 

[norbie]

On the topic of chrisiian parties, what is it with some (I am fully aware it is not all or even most) chrisitans and their desire to enforce their religious views on others. Particularly when that view means restriciting someones rights for no other reason than the bible says its bad (i.e. it doesn't affect anyone else, kind of like if an islamic country banned anyone from eating pork). It just seems weird.

Fully agree with you! Even you know that I am a strong believer in Christ, it is not fair to force our believe on someone else, especialy we are a pegan country and the majority is non believing. It's part the failure of our churches. We send missionaries all over the world but our church attendance decline. Hard to understand for me. Australia needs a strong missionary church.

 

[ScMay]

You are not all there are you mate?

Charming...

Everybody has a free will to do as they choose.

Thats what I propose (within reason, i.e. you can't do something that will harm others)

That is a God given right, we as Christians know and understand that right.
We have that right too, to make this country as accommodating to our beliefs as you do to yours. Not tricky is it.

I think we should be making Australia a place were even if you are the minority it is safe. The litmus test is, if situations were reversed would you like it? To take an example from the list in the OP such as prayer before parliament begins, would the parties promoting it be so happy if it were a Muslim prayer, a Hindu prayer, or something like that. I think not therefore I don't see why we should start with one - remember demographics change and those who are in the majority one day might not be the next so don't set bad precedents that can come back to haunt you.

If that is what we want to vote for, why cant we?

Wow I must have some really cool latent superpowers since this is the second time you have accussed me of being able to stop people voting for what they want. All I was aware of was me writing, debating, discussing, which is what people do in a democracy.

Try comprehend this. Everybody's rights are restricted to accommodate the acceptable public view.

And those restricitions shouldn't be an abuse of the power of those with power lest you find the roles reversed one day. Groups shouldn't get unnecessary privlidges or restrictions, people should be restricted equally and for reasons that you would agree with if reversed (so if you restrict something just because of the Bible that is bad since you would fight it if it were the Koran - which is hypocritical). Which I think is one reason why some chrisitans don't support it either. That and forcing religion into places often backfires and just breeds resentment which would interfere with the whole spreading of the gospel aims. If you want people to act the way you want talk to them, don't try to pass laws forcing them.

Why do you atheists inflict your morals here on us.

Inflict? This is the open area for people of all religions (including none), if you hate atheists and non-christains morals so much go back to the christian only section. I make no appology for not hiding my morals from you and fortunately the vast majority of Christians here and in the real world don't ask me too.

Getting sick of your sooking about my views.

lol, do you have a persecution complex? I was not posting this as a direct attack on you, I hadn't even noticed you had posted in this thread. If I wanted to sook I wouldn't be here anyway, I'd be at IIDB and complaining to fellow atheists.

Why are Homosexuals forcing there views on me.
Enough already.

*looks around* Nope, can't see any homosexuals forcing their views on anyone. *looks through thread* nope, can't even tell if a homosexual has even expressed a view in this thread (not that anyone could tell unless someone specifically stated their orientation in their posts). Why did you say this then?