atheist seekin truth

[LittleLambofJesus]

Correction (or quibble): "It is not possible to prove or disprove god" is the position of the agnostic, at least in its original sense, rather than the popular one. I don't know whether there's a better term for someone who doesn't know whether there's a god.

I think there is a difference between a pure strong atheist who does not believe in any "deity/creator/gods/godesses" etc, and one that just doubts but is not really sure.

James 2: 19 thou--thou dost believe that God is one; thou dost well, and the demons believe, and they shudder!

 

[Ronnee743]

How? The internet is not owned by any government,t herefore it cannot be controlled, only observed.

How does it make you feel that atheists are in control of the secure tunnels that carry your money?

The Internet is controlled as in arrests have been and will be made if anyone violates the Patriot Act.
If anyone is caught committing acts of terror as in threatening another internet user or anyone for that matter will be in danger of arrest and prosecution.
They are considered acts of terrorism.
Don't believe me?

Call your Internet Provider and ask them what the Patriot Acts means for Internet users?

 

[Livindesert]

I think there is a difference between a pure strong atheist who does not believe in any "deity/creator/gods/godesses" etc, and one that just doubts but is not really sure.

I know what you are saying but instead of "one that doubts " which imply agnosticism you should put "has seen no compelling evidence for a god so dose not believe one exists, but is open to anything that can supply the proper evidence required by said individual".

 

[MewtwoX]

The Internet is controlled as in arrests have been and will be made if anyone violates the Patriot Act.
If anyone is caught committing acts of terror as in threatening another internet user or anyone for that matter will be in danger of arrest and prosecution.
They are considered acts of terrorism.
Don't believe me?

Call your Internet Provider and ask them what the Patriot Acts means for Internet users?

I'm fairly certain that application of the Patriot Act on the grounds of "Threatening another user" wouldn't hold up in a court of law, unless the threat was of serious bodily harm.

A challenge to beliefs, whether professionally or immaturely done will not be regulated by the act.

I think the world has more problems then this if you truely believe that it all comes down to "might makes right".

A loss of the very Objectivity in truth and morality, championed by religions (especially Christianity) is implied with "might makes right".

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I know what you are saying but instead of "one that doubts " which imply agnosticism you should put "has seen no compelling evidence for a god so dose not believe one exists, but is open to anything that can supply the proper evidence required by said individual".

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[Livindesert]

Thanks for clarifying that.

No prob

 

[sidhe]

Correction (or quibble): "It is not possible to prove or disprove god" is the position of the agnostic, at least in its original sense, rather than the popular one. I don't know whether there's a better term for someone who doesn't know whether there's a god.

The position of the pure agnostic is that it's impossible to prove or disprove the existence of deity, so they hold no positive or negative view. They neither believe nor disbelieve.

The position of the weak atheist is that there is no evidence to believe in deity, so they don't, but the existence of deity isn't ruled out. If evidence proving the existence of deity was presented, they'd change their beliefs. Or, like BPB said, it's agnostic atheism. No evidence either way, so they choose not to believe unless the evidence changes.

Similarly, there are agnostic theists, who believe in deity in spite of the lack of evidence. However, the admit that there's no evidence either way, and that their belief is a matter of faith. If it was found that no deity existed, they would similiarly alter their beliefs.

 

[truthseeka]

Whether you like it or not, you live
in a theist controlled world.

funny, I can't remember the last time my actions we even influenced by theism, much less controlled. this is not a theist controlled world, its just that the majority of the populace are theist.

Now, if you had any facts, evidence, etc., you would not be sitting on the sidelines

neither would you, this has been stated before, god cannot be proven or disproven, try to keep up.

But you know as well as I that there is no proof that God does not exist, yet the proof
for God's existence is in the very fact that theists decides what goes for the world.

god cannot be disprove or proven, please present the evidence that god exists. and, honestly, what is this...

theists decides what goes for the world.

when was the last time any religious figure did anything to decide what goes for the world. military and government leaders decide what goes for their nations, no decides what goes for the world. you can preach whatever you like about what you think should go for the world, no one will listen.

We will have our churches.

oh no, you devious master mind you, not churches! how are we ever to stop you?!

and everything else that goes with
believing in God.

waffers and grape juice?

And atheists cannot do one thing about it.

accept ignore you.

and though atheists say there is no God,
yet they cannot deny that theists are in
control of the world.

yes they can, "I hereby deny that theists are not in control of the world."

This is a undeniable fact.

thats a stupid thing to say, all things considered.

This alone speaks for itself.

yes it does...you have no idea what your talking about.

Thesits evidently have more
power and influence than atheists.

no, acually neither of us have any power. becuase atheism and theism are our personal beliefs that no one of any consequence cares about except us.

The world has never and will never take atheists seriously.

I really wish you would stop speaking for the world.

Ronnee, you need to stop posting this mindless drool. I won't speak for others as you have but I have a feeling you are grossly misrepresenting theist.

 

[Ronnee743]

funny, I can't remember the last time my actions we even influenced by theism, much less controlled. this is not a theist controlled world,
Your action to start a thread to attempt to disprove God is a direct result of being controlled by theism.

its just that the majority of the populace are theist.

Duh....

neither would you, this has been stated before, god cannot be proven or disproven, try to keep up.

You are the one who needs to keep up..as in with archaeology. The Bible says.."Truth shall spring out of the earth." (Psalm 85.11)
I would have to be kinda dense to start a thread saying that ancient people never existed.
Alexander the Great is not real, neither was Lincoln, or any of the Roman emperors, etc.
Most of the world are theists because obviously, apparently we know something you don't.
God is real
You are literally calling the majority of the world's past and current inhabitants liars, such as;

Matthew
Mark
Luke
John
Paul
Tacitus
Pliny
Josephus
Augustine
The JEWS
Over five hiundred people who saw Jesus after he was dead..alive!
Theologians
historians
engineers
Scholars
Presidents
kings
airline pilots
doctors
scientists
senators
congree-men
congress-women
Over a billion Muslims
Over a billion Christians
Judges
Lawyers
Teachers
Movie producers
Actors, such as Jim Caviezel
Painters, such as Michaelangelo
Inventers
Investors
dentists
singers
songwriters
Contractors
ETC.

I think you get my point.

god cannot be disprove or proven, please present the evidence that god exists. and, honestly, what is this...

It is you that has no proof.

Even common sense says that God exists.

when was the last time any religious figure did anything to decide what goes for the world. military and government leaders decide what goes for their nations, no decides what goes for the world. you can preach whatever you like about what you think should go for the world, no one will listen.

Ever hear of the Hebrew Prophets? Moses?
all the presdents of the US?
The point is they are theists. And so they decide.
The people in charge are theists because that is what God wants.
Obviously.

oh no, you devious master mind you, not churches! how are we ever to stop you?!

You can't. Or you would have done it.
Greater is the God in us than what controls you.
The Bible says this.

waff
ers and grape juice?

You miss the point.

accept ignore you.

Then, by all means do it.

yes they can, "I hereby deny that theists are not in control of the world."

And don't forget the moon is made of green cheese.

thats a stupid thing to say, all things considered.

What is stupid is to deny the God who made you.

yes it does...you have no idea what your talking about.

From my understanding of the Bible, an atheist is appointed by God to be what he is.
You literally have no choice.

no, acually neither of us have any power. becuase atheism and theism are our personal beliefs that no one of any consequence cares about except us.

No, theism is necessary to keep the world in order and maintain its productivity.

I really wish you would stop speaking for the world.

I'm speaking for God.

Ronnee, you need to stop posting this mindless drool. I won't speak for others as you have but I have a feeling you are grossly misrepresenting theist.

You may think what you want, but I have no doubt that theists will agree with me.....that God is very real.

I will throw this in;

Seventeen detailed prophecies about Messiah were fulfilled
with absolute precision in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The chances of this happening?

1 chance in 480,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 1 chance in 480 billion Times 1 billion times 1 trillion (This is from Dr. Grant Jeffreys book, The Signature Of God

and there is more.

 

[David Gould]

Atheists do not believe that the vast majority of the human race are liars. We simply think that they are mistaken.

You obviously do not have a very good opinion of atheists. Perhaps if you realise that we are just people like you, who go through life raising families, working, thinking, loving, you will mollify that position a little.

I am an atheist. Based on my experiences and my understanding of them, I have come to a different metaphysical conclusion than you have. That's it.

 

[azmurath]

You may think what you want, but I have no doubt that theists will agree with me.....that God is very real.

I will throw this in;

Seventeen detailed prophecies about Messiah were fulfilled
with absolute precision in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The chances of this happening?

1 chance in 480,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 or 1 chance in 480 billion Times 1 billion times 1 trillion (This is from Dr. Grant Jeffreys book, The Signature Of God

and there is more.

Obviously the chances were either 1 in 1 or 1 in 0, meaning they didnt happen and you have been lied to.

 

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Seventeen detailed prophecies about Messiah were fulfilled
with absolute precision in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

I'm pretty sure this claim is false. Care to back it up?

LLH

 

[MewtwoX]

^ I think he's referring to Biblical prophecies in the Old Testament. Despite the fact that most in Judaism would fight that claim by showing the incompatibilities and Ad Hoc reasoning in asserting that Jesus was the mosiarch (sp?), as well as the dependence on assuming that all the events in the OT and NT occured and were legitimate.

It doesn't really take into account the possibility that NT authors could have embellished or even made up stories to make Jesus compatible with prophecy, or even if Jesus existed at all...

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

^ I think he's referring to Biblical prophecies in the Old Testament. Despite the fact that most in Judaism would fight that claim by showing the incompatibilities and Ad Hoc reasoning in asserting that Jesus was the mosiarch (sp?), as well as the dependence on assuming that all the events in the OT and NT occured and were legitimate.

It doesn't really take into account the possibility that NT authors could have embellished or even made up stories to make Jesus compatible with prophecy, or even if Jesus existed at all...

If Jesus never "existed", then Israel is still in their "graves".

http://www.christianforums.com/t3114523-science-and-redemption-in-the-bible.html

Ezekiel 37:13 "Then you shall know that I [am] the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. 14 "I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live,

Luke 2:34 Then Simeon blessed them, and said to Mary His mother, "Behold, this [Child] is destined for the fall and Resurrection [#386] of many in Israel, and for a Sign which will be spoken against

Revelation 12:1 Now a great Sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a garland of twelve stars.

 

[Ronnee743]

I'm pretty sure this claim is false. Care to back it up?

LLH

I took that information from Signature of God by Grant Jeffreys.
The evidence is available for all the world to see.
You're welcome to look for yourself.
It is the atheist who lives in a theist world, so it is the atheist who must provide proof.
Theists prove God by making the world a theist world.
If you had proof that there is no God, it would be an atheist world.

 

[azmurath]

I took that information from Signature of God by Grant Jeffreys.
The evidence is available for all the world to see.
You're welcome to look for yourself.
It is the atheist who lives in a theist world, so it is the atheist who must provide proof.
Theists prove God by making the world a theist world.
If you had proof that there is no God, it would be an atheist world.

So since most of the lifeforms on the planet are insects, is Earth an insect world?

Your logic is flawed, give me proof or stop being beligerent.

 

[Ronnee743]

Obviously the chances were either 1 in 1 or 1 in 0, meaning they didnt happen and you have been lied to.

Have you ever conisidered that it is you that is being lied to that there is no God?

When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life"

He basically said that whatever he says goes.

And so the theists took that statement and acted on it, thus producing a theist world.

 

[azmurath]

Have you ever conisidered that it is you that is being lied to that there is no God?

When Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life"

He basically said that whatever he says goes.

And so the theists took that statement and acted on it, thus producing a theist world.

No Christians took taht statement and acted on it. If by theist you mean Christian, then the world is far from a theistic world.

 

[Ronnee743]

Atheists do not believe that the vast majority of the human race are liars. We simply think that they are mistaken.

And you have the right to believe just that.
However, in thousands of years theists have decided for the world and atheists have not.
That is great evidence that theists know something atheists don't know.

You obviously do not have a very good opinion of atheists. Perhaps if you realise that we are just people like you, who go through life raising families, working, thinking, loving, you will mollify that position a little.

I don't have a opinion about atheists.
But I have noticed they bad-mouth God and seem to have a deep hatred for Him.
I understand that.
I wish atheists understood why they hate a God that they say does not exist.
God said in the Bible that athiests say "there is no God" but He never said they believed it.
Or knew it. Which is the same thing.

I am an atheist. Based on my experiences and my understanding of them, I have come to a different metaphysical conclusion than you have. That's it.

I didn't come to any conclusions. I met Jesus Christ in person. I would not have any proof but I do with actually meeting him and feeling his Spirit.

You should read of the ex-atheist who stopped being an atheist when he literally went to hell.
Howard Storm.

http://www.nku.edu/~kenneyr/HS.html

This ex-atheist actually went to hell and it was there he asked Jesus to help him.

 

[azmurath]

This ex-atheist actually went to hell and it was there he asked Jesus to help him.

So... Jesus is in Hell? If Jesus cant get to Heaven, why are you guys bothering?

And you know very little about atheists Ronnee, I do not hate your God, I cannot hate something that doesnt exist. And as far as theists "knowing something atheists dont", Christianity is just a huge bandwagon, everybody jumping on and eventually actually believing the crap that you are taught.